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[SERIOUS] Abortion Clinics in Minority Neighb

Bull_Diesel
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3/10/2013 12:13:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ok. So I'm looking for only serious responses hear from people that may or may not be better informed than I am.

I DO NOT WISH TO NOR WILL I RESPOND TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF ABORTION.

I want to discuss something that happened to me today.

I follow a page on facebook run by a Black Conservative woman who calls herself "Stacy on the Right". "Stacy" Posted on her facebook page 'Black Conservative Political Action a picture of a Black woman holding two posterboards.

One reads "WHY ARE 80% OF ABORTION CLINICS IN MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS"
The Next reads "MARGARET SANGER = HITLER" with pictures of those two people.


Here is what I wrote, and the townspeople immediately began sharpening their pitchforks and preparing their torches....

:I really like your posts most of the time and I feel like you're doing a really good :thing, but this is , for lack of a better term, dumb.

It doesn't seem like you're really interested in addressing or answering this question, :but i'll give you a hint.

Forget that you're talking about Abortion Clinics at all. Let's say we're talking about :Taco Bell.

Why are 80% of Taco Bells located in areas where people want to eat cheap food :quickly without spending a lot of money? Because that's where the demand for Taco :Bell restaurants is.

Why are Abortion Clinics in Minority Neighborhoods? Do minority neighborhoods have :a need or demand for abortion clinics? If so, it's probably a safe bet that abortion :clinics would rather open somewhere where there is a demand for their service than :somewhere where the demand is lower.

Are "minority neighborhoods" more likely to have higher "unwanted" or "unplanned :pregnancy" rates than other neighborhoods? Maybe, but the idea that just because I :open a $100 dollar a plate restaurant in a "Minority neighborhood", the residents will :be compelled to eat and and patronize my overpriced restaurant to their detriment is :fallacious and absurd.

Just because I open a steakhouse in India, people aren't going to start eating steak :that weren't eating steak already. Just because I open an abortion clinic (which I'm :obviously not going to do ) , people aren't going to start having unsafe and :unprotected sex and aborting their unwanted children/fetuses solely because I opened :the place.

This whole situation makes me sad. I ordinarily think that my fellow conservative :thinkers seem to understand reality much better than this. The GOP's and :conservatives in general 's obsession with and blind anger regarding abortion is one of :the major failings of the party and is causing an unimaginable amount of negativity :toward a party that could really use the support of the people it has alienated purely :because of the abortion issue.

It is a serious issue, but deal with it in a serious way. The only way to solve problems l:ike this is through education and conditioning of the populace, It doesn't matter if you :outlaw guns, people that really want guns are going to get them anyway. If you make :abortions illegal, people aren't going to suddenly stop having unprotected sex and :abandoning their children. If you want to solve a problem, go to the source of the :problem.

While you're obviously free to post anything you'd like, I wish you would avoid things :that can be so easily proven to be absurd. It will make the good arguments you :regularly raise all the more potent and well respected.




I'm not black. I'm not a woman. I am fairly conservative (politically) although I find I better identifiy with a lot of libertarians. I still very much support a great deal of the issues that conservatives and the GOP support.

I would like everyone's feedback on this issue, I feel like regardless of the origins of planned parenthood or how worked up most conservatives get about abortion, there simply is no justification for people putting abortion clinics in an area where nobody is having abortions.

Again, please don't bog this thread down with crap about abortion being right or wrong.
\
Bull_Diesel
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3/10/2013 12:17:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The following are the responses by Stacy on the Right.

[I was also attacked by about 100 other people, just want to know if I was as out of line as they seem to think or if reasonable intelligent people support the idea that just because a business exists humans beings still have the free will and alleged intelligence to choose not to patronize those business or services.]

Actually Matt Catchpole, you are the one that seems a bit lacking in understanding of the demographics of abortion clinic placement. Clinics are placed in minority neighborhoods because the primary reason that abortion on demand is legal in this country is to destroy undesirables. This was the basis for the founding of planned parenthood.

Your comparison of an abortion clinic to a Taco Bell restarant shows your lack of understanding of the funding of abortions. American Taxpayers pay $1.3 million dollars a MONTH to planned unparenthood. This is the public money, it does not include the money paid to them by their private donors. When any group aborts more babies than are born alive you have to look at the access to abortion. The easier the access the higher the rate. Studies show that when clinics close down, the incidence of unplanned pregnancy decreases exponentially, because people are more careful. Simply put, if abortion cannot be used as a means of contraception, people find other means of preventing pregnancy.

So, instead of making yourself look foolish with your OBVIOUS lack of knowlege pertaining to the statistics surrounding abortion and the driving force behind the placement of the centers, educate yourself Matt Catchpole.

In fact a great place to start educating yourself is by watching MAAFA 21. Its free to watch on Youtube:

Matt Catchpole: Until you have watched that and understand what the truth is, refrain from posting your hardscrabble nonsense here. I'm simply out of patience with uninformed pseudo conservatives on this issue.

Matt probably doesn't even know who Margaret Sanger is, yet he had the audacity to dispute the veracity of the stats on the poster. Unbelievable. Get a clue. The REASON abortion was invented was to eliminate the black race and retarded people from America.

Then she actually created two whole "status updates" that I guess i'm responsible for, I feel pretty special, she has well over 9 thousand followers.

:Telling the truth about abortion makes people angry.
Consequently, I will continue to do so. Loudly.


Notice:
Your disagreement with a post on this page doesn't make it false. Prove the stats in the post are false by posting facts with links to the contrary. Simply droning on about your opinions on the matter won't change anyone's mind and will show you to be a self important little person.
Bull_Diesel
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3/10/2013 12:20:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyway, thoughts and comments appreciated.

Please treat this seriously. I don't want to know what the bible says or what you think about killing people. PLease just tell me what you know or think about the comment that 80% of Abortion Clinics are in Minority Neighborhoods and the implication that that's an active concerted effort to control the black population disproportionate to other races particularly whites, as is implied by the comments of this person and others.

Worst, of all, of all the horrible names I was called by all of those people, I got called liberal idiot and democrat about 100 times, that stings.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/10/2013 1:43:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 12:20:23 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Anyway, thoughts and comments appreciated.

Please treat this seriously. I don't want to know what the bible says or what you think about killing people. PLease just tell me what you know or think about the comment that 80% of Abortion Clinics are in Minority Neighborhoods and the implication that that's an active concerted effort to control the black population disproportionate to other races particularly whites, as is implied by the comments of this person and others.


Worst, of all, of all the horrible names I was called by all of those people, I got called liberal idiot and democrat about 100 times, that stings.

While I'm not sure offhand about the statistics, the idea that Planned Parenthood was founded to exterminate undesirables, or that Margaret Sanger was similar to Hitler, is a canard the some on the Right like to trot out now and again; it's based on a single quote taken completely out of context.
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suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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3/10/2013 4:56:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Most of the political rhetoric is not meant to be logical at the first place. It sole purpose is to increase the number of people who believe in their as many as possible. You just get in their way so they (altogether with the rest who agree with) just take a step on you.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/10/2013 7:55:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 1:43:00 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/10/2013 12:20:23 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Anyway, thoughts and comments appreciated.

Please treat this seriously. I don't want to know what the bible says or what you think about killing people. PLease just tell me what you know or think about the comment that 80% of Abortion Clinics are in Minority Neighborhoods and the implication that that's an active concerted effort to control the black population disproportionate to other races particularly whites, as is implied by the comments of this person and others.


Worst, of all, of all the horrible names I was called by all of those people, I got called liberal idiot and democrat about 100 times, that stings.

While I'm not sure offhand about the statistics, the idea that Planned Parenthood was founded to exterminate undesirables, or that Margaret Sanger was similar to Hitler, is a canard the some on the Right like to trot out now and again; it's based on a single quote taken completely out of context.

I actually thought this too, but I watched the full film that she mentioned because, well, I'm bored. It actually documents ties between Planned Parenthood and various eugenics organizations in the mid-twentieth century pretty well. I searched for criticisms of the film's research and methodology but I found only vague bare assertions of it being 'misinformation' without citing a single case of actual of misinformation in the documentary's research. This doesn't change anything about the morality of abortion and contraception, but it does make one take a closer look at the motives of its advocates, and it isn't a pretty picture.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/10/2013 11:11:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 7:55:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/10/2013 1:43:00 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/10/2013 12:20:23 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Anyway, thoughts and comments appreciated.

Please treat this seriously. I don't want to know what the bible says or what you think about killing people. PLease just tell me what you know or think about the comment that 80% of Abortion Clinics are in Minority Neighborhoods and the implication that that's an active concerted effort to control the black population disproportionate to other races particularly whites, as is implied by the comments of this person and others.


Worst, of all, of all the horrible names I was called by all of those people, I got called liberal idiot and democrat about 100 times, that stings.

While I'm not sure offhand about the statistics, the idea that Planned Parenthood was founded to exterminate undesirables, or that Margaret Sanger was similar to Hitler, is a canard the some on the Right like to trot out now and again; it's based on a single quote taken completely out of context.

I actually thought this too, but I watched the full film that she mentioned because, well, I'm bored. It actually documents ties between Planned Parenthood and various eugenics organizations in the mid-twentieth century pretty well. I searched for criticisms of the film's research and methodology but I found only vague bare assertions of it being 'misinformation' without citing a single case of actual of misinformation in the documentary's research. This doesn't change anything about the morality of abortion and contraception, but it does make one take a closer look at the motives of its advocates, and it isn't a pretty picture.

No one denies that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist. And that side of the aisle is broad, and contains monsters. But it used to be a far more "mainstream" concept, and didn't necessarily entail extermination.

I actually debated this already:

http://www.debate.org...
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bladerunner060
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3/10/2013 12:06:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 11:50:49 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
I just wish there was a way for me to respond to this person without being attacked again

You can't. She and her followers are irrational, and any disagreement is met with anger.
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bladerunner060
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3/10/2013 12:08:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So you can either keep saying what you want, understanding that they'll irrationally attack you, or give up. But hoping to point out the crazy AND not be attacked isn't likely to happen.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/10/2013 12:10:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 12:13:31 AM, Bull_Diesel wrote:
Ok. So I'm looking for only serious responses hear from people that may or may not be better informed than I am.

I DO NOT WISH TO NOR WILL I RESPOND TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF ABORTION.


I want to discuss something that happened to me today.

I follow a page on facebook run by a Black Conservative woman who calls herself "Stacy on the Right". "Stacy" Posted on her facebook page 'Black Conservative Political Action a picture of a Black woman holding two posterboards.

One reads "WHY ARE 80% OF ABORTION CLINICS IN MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS"
The Next reads "MARGARET SANGER = HITLER" with pictures of those two people.



Here is what I wrote, and the townspeople immediately began sharpening their pitchforks and preparing their torches....

:I really like your posts most of the time and I feel like you're doing a really good :thing, but this is , for lack of a better term, dumb.

It doesn't seem like you're really interested in addressing or answering this question, :but i'll give you a hint.

Forget that you're talking about Abortion Clinics at all. Let's say we're talking about :Taco Bell.

Why are 80% of Taco Bells located in areas where people want to eat cheap food :quickly without spending a lot of money? Because that's where the demand for Taco :Bell restaurants is.

Why are Abortion Clinics in Minority Neighborhoods? Do minority neighborhoods have :a need or demand for abortion clinics? If so, it's probably a safe bet that abortion :clinics would rather open somewhere where there is a demand for their service than :somewhere where the demand is lower.

Are "minority neighborhoods" more likely to have higher "unwanted" or "unplanned :pregnancy" rates than other neighborhoods? Maybe, but the idea that just because I :open a $100 dollar a plate restaurant in a "Minority neighborhood", the residents will :be compelled to eat and and patronize my overpriced restaurant to their detriment is :fallacious and absurd.

Just because I open a steakhouse in India, people aren't going to start eating steak :that weren't eating steak already. Just because I open an abortion clinic (which I'm :obviously not going to do ) , people aren't going to start having unsafe and :unprotected sex and aborting their unwanted children/fetuses solely because I opened :the place.

This whole situation makes me sad. I ordinarily think that my fellow conservative :thinkers seem to understand reality much better than this. The GOP's and :conservatives in general 's obsession with and blind anger regarding abortion is one of :the major failings of the party and is causing an unimaginable amount of negativity :toward a party that could really use the support of the people it has alienated purely :because of the abortion issue.

It is a serious issue, but deal with it in a serious way. The only way to solve problems l:ike this is through education and conditioning of the populace, It doesn't matter if you :outlaw guns, people that really want guns are going to get them anyway. If you make :abortions illegal, people aren't going to suddenly stop having unprotected sex and :abandoning their children. If you want to solve a problem, go to the source of the :problem.

While you're obviously free to post anything you'd like, I wish you would avoid things :that can be so easily proven to be absurd. It will make the good arguments you :regularly raise all the more potent and well respected.





I'm not black. I'm not a woman. I am fairly conservative (politically) although I find I better identifiy with a lot of libertarians. I still very much support a great deal of the issues that conservatives and the GOP support.


I would like everyone's feedback on this issue, I feel like regardless of the origins of planned parenthood or how worked up most conservatives get about abortion, there simply is no justification for people putting abortion clinics in an area where nobody is having abortions.

Again, please don't bog this thread down with crap about abortion being right or wrong.
\

Do me a favor. Go check to see the correlation between poor areas and where Planned Parenthood sets up. Then check the correlation between areas in which a majority of inhabitants are minorities versus average income for a neighborhood.
tulle
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3/10/2013 2:54:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 12:10:01 PM, Wnope wrote:

Do me a favor. Go check to see the correlation between poor areas and where Planned Parenthood sets up. Then check the correlation between areas in which a majority of inhabitants are minorities versus average income for a neighborhood.

I found a few articles but I don't see any numbers. What's wrong about what bull said about demand?
yang.
Wnope
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3/10/2013 3:17:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 2:54:55 PM, tulle wrote:
At 3/10/2013 12:10:01 PM, Wnope wrote:

Do me a favor. Go check to see the correlation between poor areas and where Planned Parenthood sets up. Then check the correlation between areas in which a majority of inhabitants are minorities versus average income for a neighborhood.

I found a few articles but I don't see any numbers. What's wrong about what bull said about demand?

Sure, demand plays a large part of it. But from what I see, increased minorities having abortions compared to white is a statistical artifact due to the causal relation between abortion and low SES. Abortion rates have actually been decreasing among high SES populations for the past few decades while increasing for low SES populations independent of race.

If minorities are disproportionately represented in low SES environments, they will have higher rates of abortion.

So if demand is based on SES, we can expect a high rate of Planned Parenthoods near minority neighborhoods.

One could argue that there are cultural differentiations, such as family structure in many latino families, but that's far from talking about targeting a race.

Also, shouldn't we be HAPPY that minorities have increased access to reproductive services?

It'd seem like the more racist proposition is to disproportionately located planned parenthoods in white neighborhoods.
Bull_Diesel
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3/10/2013 11:45:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 3:32:36 PM, tulle wrote:
I'm confused. Where do you and bull disagree?

We don't I apparrently just didn't add the part where I made the same points he is making about it not being a race issue its an education and economic capability/earnings issue. And It's not Margaret Sanger's Spirit maliciously mandating that blacks be exterminated somehow through planned parenthood, it is poor uneducated people that don't take responsibility for Dick using abortions as an easy out and a failsafe so that they can be as sexually active as they want with few to no repercussions