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What Is Envy?

pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/14/2013 11:58:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Suppose I can have something freely anytime I want it , grass for example. Say my friend found a super cool thing to use grass for.
Now I have a yearning to use the grass in the same way my friend is using his. Does that make me envious since I yearn to do something he does?

Or am I only envious if I want what he wants and have to show more effort to obtain it?

I heard/read once that "man is born to envy one another", and I thought this would be a good start to deduce that.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/15/2013 10:09:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 11:58:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
Suppose I can have something freely anytime I want it , grass for example. Say my friend found a super cool thing to use grass for.
Now I have a yearning to use the grass in the same way my friend is using his. Does that make me envious since I yearn to do something he does?

Or am I only envious if I want what he wants and have to show more effort to obtain it?

I heard/read once that "man is born to envy one another", and I thought this would be a good start to deduce that.

I've always seen envy as wanting that which your fellow has that you cannnot have. Now, it may be something that you could have, but with more work, but at the moment of envy, you can't/don't have it.
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pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2013 12:16:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 10:09:46 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 3/14/2013 11:58:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
Suppose I can have something freely anytime I want it , grass for example. Say my friend found a super cool thing to use grass for.
Now I have a yearning to use the grass in the same way my friend is using his. Does that make me envious since I yearn to do something he does?

Or am I only envious if I want what he wants and have to show more effort to obtain it?

I heard/read once that "man is born to envy one another", and I thought this would be a good start to deduce that.

I've always seen envy as wanting that which your fellow has that you cannnot have. Now, it may be something that you could have, but with more work, but at the moment of envy, you can't/don't have it.

So in my analogy envy would have happened between the time of me learning how to use it and me using it?

I can understand that.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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3/15/2013 4:46:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"What Is Envy?" Wouldn't you like to know.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/15/2013 7:12:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/14/2013 11:58:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
Suppose I can have something freely anytime I want it , grass for example. Say my friend found a super cool thing to use grass for.
Now I have a yearning to use the grass in the same way my friend is using his. Does that make me envious since I yearn to do something he does?

Or am I only envious if I want what he wants and have to show more effort to obtain it?

I heard/read once that "man is born to envy one another", and I thought this would be a good start to deduce that.

I think you are envious if you resent the fact that he has the ability and you don't. I'm not sure yearning to use it the way he uses it constitutues envy, envy is directed at the person, not the thing you want.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
EgoDuctor
Posts: 10
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3/15/2013 7:36:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You could be envious that your friend found a cool way to use grass as he achieved something you did not.
Envy is a feeling of resentment and discontent over someone's or something's qualities, traits, possessions or achievements.
Simple definition, in my opinion. ;o
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/17/2013 9:20:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Envy is one of of the seven deadly sins, which IMO are the absolute basis for morality. Morality, in turn, is the negative balance to the benefit of intelligence. IOWs, granting a being with intelligence (and the privilege of having ultimate power over one's environment) must be balanced with the responsibility (morality) of using this privilege wisely.

All vice (7 sins) is based on the cardinal sin, pride, which is the feeling of superiority over others. Envy isn't simply the desire for what others have, therefore, it is the justification of said desires based on one's pride. Consider, for instance, believing a pretty girl should be with you instead of someone else because of your perception of inadequacy in her current mate. Or perhaps the sensation that you work harder than somebody else but aren't compensated or endowed as fairly. These particular situations involve that extra component of pride, which is different than, say, admiring Adrian Peterson for his ability to play elite-level football or being enamored by a luxury automobile owned by the person next to you at a street-light. Simply wanting what others have is not immoral; believing you ought to have it is.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
EgoDuctor
Posts: 10
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3/18/2013 6:03:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Condemning emotions and feelings is no basis for morality.
We are social beings who need certain rules to engage in many activities .
Riding a car, for example, would be a rather difficult task were there no traffic regulations.
We call those rules and regulations just because they ensure our species' very existence.
That is the basis of morality, not a list of things that are bad.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/18/2013 8:52:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 6:03:58 AM, EgoDuctor wrote:
Condemning emotions and feelings is no basis for morality.

The emotions themselves are benign, it is our actions based on them which is immoral. If I feel envy - a feeling of self-entitlement - and then act on it, nothing good can come from it.

We are social beings who need certain rules to engage in many activities .
Riding a car, for example, would be a rather difficult task were there no traffic regulations.
We call those rules and regulations just because they ensure our species' very existence.
That is the basis of morality, not a list of things that are bad.

So morality is based upon rules and regulations? Does that mean that dictators are the ultimate source of moral truth?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
EgoDuctor
Posts: 10
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3/18/2013 10:08:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Of course there can be good consequences of bad feelings.
As result of my envy I could go ahead and try to find a better way to use grass than my friend, to use the example of the author of this thread. That would be a positive result of my negative feelings.

Morality concerns matters of greater importance.
These rules and regulations are unwritten as they depend on social interactions.
Ultimately things are morally wrong because they lead to negative consequences such as changes in relationships, social sanctions, a weakened group that cannot compete or simply the disturbance of ones conscience.

A follower of an dictator could find enemies acting morally wrong because they try to destroy the system he is a part of.

Morality is subjective and gets influenced by many factors which can be observed.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/18/2013 4:17:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 9:20:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Envy is one of of the seven deadly sins, which IMO are the absolute basis for morality. Morality, in turn, is the negative balance to the benefit of intelligence. IOWs, granting a being with intelligence (and the privilege of having ultimate power over one's environment) must be balanced with the responsibility (morality) of using this privilege wisely.

All vice (7 sins) is based on the cardinal sin, pride, which is the feeling of superiority over others. Envy isn't simply the desire for what others have, therefore, it is the justification of said desires based on one's pride. Consider, for instance, believing a pretty girl should be with you instead of someone else because of your perception of inadequacy in her current mate. Or perhaps the sensation that you work harder than somebody else but aren't compensated or endowed as fairly. These particular situations involve that extra component of pride, which is different than, say, admiring Adrian Peterson for his ability to play elite-level football or being enamored by a luxury automobile owned by the person next to you at a street-light. Simply wanting what others have is not immoral; believing you ought to have it is.

What if you actually ought to have it? Like, let's say you work with a guy, and you both have the same job. But he is lazy and doesn't do very good work. One day, your boss comes in and says to the guy that he's getting a raise. Is it still immoral to believe that you ought to have gotten that raise, and not him?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/18/2013 6:12:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry I didn't respond to the OP earlier, the weed made me do it...

At 3/14/2013 11:58:43 PM, pozessed wrote:
Suppose I can have something freely anytime I want it , grass for example. Say my friend found a super cool thing to use grass for.
Now I have a yearning to use the grass in the same way my friend is using his. Does that make me envious since I yearn to do something he does?

No.

Or am I only envious if I want what he wants and have to show more effort to obtain it?

Still not envy. Envy is not about effort, it is about entitlement. If you admire your "friend's" grass-working, then that's about all there is to it.

As to the next logical question, of what would make it envy, I would say that there would have to be some element of entitlement involved. Let's imagine you helped your friend develop the grass-working technique. Now he goes off and starts using some of your methods to make a profit. How does that make you feel? That sense of entitlement is envy.

You might say: "OK, but I would have reason to be upset, because I put my time/money into it and I should get something in return. Illegal, unethical, etc."

Perhaps you did, perhaps you did not. Maybe you did some work and he paid your rent and you bailed him out of jail once and he got you a job...

The exact details of every situation are complex and certainly not up to our feeble minds to assign a value to. The problem is that you feel you are entitled to what he has and you have hate growing in your heart for him. Perhaps you will threaten him with bodily injury, or maybe you will be civilized and file suit. Either way, you are acting upon envy, and your own life is destined to be a little bit harder after you are done with your acts.

We are conditioned to accept the aforementioned scenario as OK (suing someone for remuneration) because aggression of this sort is tolerated in society. This was not always the case. For instance, a woman I know once got injured in a carnival ride in the 60s. The car she was in flew off the main part of the ride, and she broke her arm. She didn't sue because the culture of the day showed less tolerance for suing people, even in circumstances that today would be automatic. Suing is inherently ambitious, and this meaning had yet to be completely lost. I remember hearing her talk about it as a child, and thinking to myself "wow! that's weird... she should have sued them!" But I no longer think that way. Her family was likely awarded honor in the matter, a value we have less use for today.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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3/21/2013 8:30:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 11:19:14 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Envy is the emotion that goes on in people's minds when they learn that Tulle visited Maikuru.

Envy =/= jealousy. Common misconception
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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3/23/2013 10:12:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 11:19:14 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Envy is the emotion that goes on in people's minds when they learn that Tulle visited Maikuru.

omg!!!! lol seriously?? <3
yang.
jambone
Posts: 25
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3/24/2013 10:26:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Envy is I would think, the desire on some level to experience the circumstances another individual is already enjoying, and/or in finding relief from the lessening or removal of undesirable circumstances another is experiencing, while you are not experiencing said relief.