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Multiverse

ConservativePolitico
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3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/26/2013 12:54:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anything is plausible.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
ConservativePolitico
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3/26/2013 1:01:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:54:54 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
Anything is plausible.

False.

Me turning into a cloud of gas and floating away is not plausible.

Plausible - Seeming reasonable or probable
toolpot462
Posts: 289
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3/26/2013 1:06:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:01:34 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:54:54 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
Anything is plausible.

False.

Me turning into a cloud of gas and floating away is not plausible.

If someone set you on fire it would be.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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3/26/2013 1:18:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 1:01:34 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:54:54 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
Anything is plausible.

False.

Me turning into a cloud of gas and floating away is not plausible.

Plausible - Seeming reasonable or probable

Anything can be probable given the right circumstances.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/26/2013 9:28:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

I don't see any thing that would justify a firm belief that nature is limited to one universe. It seems like a semantic problem, actually; uni- meaning 'one'.

I think the burden of proof would be on the one asserting that nature is limited in such a way.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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Sidewalker
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3/26/2013 9:33:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

I don"t think the idea of a multiverse is the least bit scientific; there is no scientific evidence whatsoever pointing toward the possibility of a multiverse. It"s pure speculation, unobserved, unobservable and untestable in principle, and completely contrary to Occam"s razor. It"s more of an agenda based "mathematical allegory" than anything resembling science.

It"s part of an alarming trend in science in recent decades. Rather than recognize that our mathematics and our theories are practical tools that help us interpret data, we have confused the tools of science with the substance of science, we confuse the map with the territory. We have put the tail on the wrong end of the dog when the facts don"t fit the conceptual framework, we just change the facts. Galaxies spin in contradiction of Newton"s laws, so there must be unobserved and unobservable dark matter, the universe appears to be fine-tuned so we say there are an infinite number of undetectable universes and we just happen to live in one that looks fine tuned.

Somewhere along the way, in the last twenty years or so, the observed universe we were trying to understand with our theories went from just 4% of reality, to just one of an infinite number of universes, all of it unobserved and unobservable, so the sacred theories could remain intact. It seems we have gone from a realm of pure possibility that goes unrealized until it is "collapsed" by an observer, who apparently conjures a particle into existence out of a mathematical haze, to an entire realm of pure abstraction, that goes unrealized until it is "collapsed" by a theory, and that apparently conjures entire universes into existence out of a mathematical haze. And you have to wonder if we are still doing science.

Einstein said "It is the theory that allows us to see the facts", but I don"t think he ever said anything about inventing facts to fit the theory, and I"m sure he never said anything about the theory being what is most real, and that reality to be explained should just be altered to fit the theory. Science"s job is to create theories that explain the data, when the theories don"t do that, you change the theory, you don"t invent data.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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3/26/2013 9:43:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:33:42 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

I don"t think the idea of a multiverse is the least bit scientific; there is no scientific evidence whatsoever pointing toward the possibility of a multiverse. It"s pure speculation, unobserved, unobservable and untestable in principle, and completely contrary to Occam"s razor. It"s more of an agenda based "mathematical allegory" than anything resembling science.

It"s part of an alarming trend in science in recent decades. Rather than recognize that our mathematics and our theories are practical tools that help us interpret data, we have confused the tools of science with the substance of science, we confuse the map with the territory. We have put the tail on the wrong end of the dog when the facts don"t fit the conceptual framework, we just change the facts. Galaxies spin in contradiction of Newton"s laws, so there must be unobserved and unobservable dark matter, the universe appears to be fine-tuned so we say there are an infinite number of undetectable universes and we just happen to live in one that looks fine tuned.

Somewhere along the way, in the last twenty years or so, the observed universe we were trying to understand with our theories went from just 4% of reality, to just one of an infinite number of universes, all of it unobserved and unobservable, so the sacred theories could remain intact. It seems we have gone from a realm of pure possibility that goes unrealized until it is "collapsed" by an observer, who apparently conjures a particle into existence out of a mathematical haze, to an entire realm of pure abstraction, that goes unrealized until it is "collapsed" by a theory, and that apparently conjures entire universes into existence out of a mathematical haze. And you have to wonder if we are still doing science.

Einstein said "It is the theory that allows us to see the facts", but I don"t think he ever said anything about inventing facts to fit the theory, and I"m sure he never said anything about the theory being what is most real, and that reality to be explained should just be altered to fit the theory. Science"s job is to create theories that explain the data, when the theories don"t do that, you change the theory, you don"t invent data.

I only used to be a fan of the multi-verse, since I thought (and still think), the only real hope for the multi-verse is, in effect, theism.

I will agree with SideWalker here for now since at best we can conclude that, as he puts it, it's mathematical allegory.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).
Apeiron
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3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/26/2013 10:04:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

Well that's bull... so just because you personally reject an intelligent designer there are suddenly thousands of universes with absolutely no evidence for your ludicrous claim?
dylancatlow
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3/26/2013 10:05:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:04:04 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

Well that's bull... so just because you personally reject an intelligent designer there are suddenly thousands of universes with absolutely no evidence for your ludicrous claim?

I don't claim to have concrete proof, it's sort of a thought experiment.
dylancatlow
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3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.
toolpot462
Posts: 289
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3/26/2013 10:29:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:28:40 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

I don't see any thing that would justify a firm belief that nature is limited to one universe. It seems like a semantic problem, actually; uni- meaning 'one'.

I think the burden of proof would be on the one asserting that nature is limited in such a way.

It depends on what one means by universe. When I say or hear universe, I think of a word that represents all and any thing. What is excluded from the category "everything"? So with this meaning the word multiverse is meaningless - if there were two universes, they would each be included in the one universe, and so there would only be one universe after all.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/26/2013 10:45:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.

But you do have proof, proof based on precedent. You've gone to Costco plenty of times and you've seen people in Costco and driven by Costco and never seen anyone get shot in the face therefore you have evidence that you won't be shot in the face.

There is no such evidence for a multiverse.
Apeiron
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3/26/2013 11:22:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.

What's emotional faith? ... Seems to me that the theist, though she may be emotional about her faith, doesn't seem to base her belief on that emotion, but rather a reasonable faith that her experience of God in her life is real, etc. Our experiences we can be emotional about them but that does nothing to undercut the fact that we actually have those experiences. Indeed why ARE theists so emotional about their experience if they supposedly don't exist in the first place? Shouldn't THAT cry out for explanation? What's there to be all emotional about if God doesn't exist?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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3/26/2013 11:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:45:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.

But you do have proof, proof based on precedent. You've gone to Costco plenty of times and you've seen people in Costco and driven by Costco and never seen anyone get shot in the face therefore you have evidence that you won't be shot in the face.

There is no such evidence for a multiverse.

The evidence is this universe. Chances are I'm not going to convince you.
Apeiron
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3/26/2013 11:43:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:26:48 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:45:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.

But you do have proof, proof based on precedent. You've gone to Costco plenty of times and you've seen people in Costco and driven by Costco and never seen anyone get shot in the face therefore you have evidence that you won't be shot in the face.

There is no such evidence for a multiverse.

The evidence is this universe. Chances are I'm not going to convince you.

I'm open to be convinced, like I said before, I was a fan of the m-verse. Indeed I think the best hope for it is theism! ...
toolpot462
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3/26/2013 11:47:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:22:41 PM, Apeiron wrote:
What's emotional faith? ... Seems to me that the theist, though she may be emotional about her faith, doesn't seem to base her belief on that emotion, but rather a reasonable faith that her experience of God in her life is real, etc. Our experiences we can be emotional about them but that does nothing to undercut the fact that we actually have those experiences. Indeed why ARE theists so emotional about their experience if they supposedly don't exist in the first place? Shouldn't THAT cry out for explanation? What's there to be all emotional about if God doesn't exist?

That reminds me of when I was on a drug trip and I freaked out because I thoroughly believed my cat was hypnotizing me. What was there to freak out about if my cat wasn't really hypnotizing me? Oh, yea, delusion.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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3/26/2013 11:50:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:26:48 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:45:15 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:06:41 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:58:47 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

What makes you think it's 100% certain that there isn't one universe and that there isn't a designer? ... That's a very bold suggestion, and I'd like to know any support for it other than the faith of an atheist?

It's intellectual faith, not emotional faith. I have faith that I won't be shot in the face when I go to costco, for instance, but I don't have proof.

But you do have proof, proof based on precedent. You've gone to Costco plenty of times and you've seen people in Costco and driven by Costco and never seen anyone get shot in the face therefore you have evidence that you won't be shot in the face.

There is no such evidence for a multiverse.

The evidence is this universe. Chances are I'm not going to convince you.

So you see a single universe with no connection or evidence to any other universes but automatically believe they're there?
Apeiron
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3/26/2013 11:58:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:47:15 PM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 11:22:41 PM, Apeiron wrote:
What's emotional faith? ... Seems to me that the theist, though she may be emotional about her faith, doesn't seem to base her belief on that emotion, but rather a reasonable faith that her experience of God in her life is real, etc. Our experiences we can be emotional about them but that does nothing to undercut the fact that we actually have those experiences. Indeed why ARE theists so emotional about their experience if they supposedly don't exist in the first place? Shouldn't THAT cry out for explanation? What's there to be all emotional about if God doesn't exist?

That reminds me of when I was on a drug trip and I freaked out because I thoroughly believed my cat was hypnotizing me. What was there to freak out about if my cat wasn't really hypnotizing me? Oh, yea, delusion.

This is a good example to use for our discussion. You had a defeater for believing that your cat was actually hypnotizing you, that you took drugs. Whereas when the Christian has an experience of God or his works in their life or in creation, where is the defeater for that basic experience? Were they on drugs? You've got to provide some sort of defeater for Christian belief if you want to call Christians delusional. Or at least mistaken, the word delusional is a personal attack, and just makes people not want to be your friend.
malcolmxy
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3/27/2013 12:04:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

It eliminates the paradox associated with Time Travel if it is.

If you travel back in time and, for instance, kill your grandparents, it doesn't affect your existence in your universe. It simply creates another, alternate universe.

It's also the only thing that makes sense given our current level of understanding in physics.

I have no idea, but I really like the theory.
War is over, if you want it.

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toolpot462
Posts: 289
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3/27/2013 12:05:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 11:58:05 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 3/26/2013 11:47:15 PM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 11:22:41 PM, Apeiron wrote:
What's emotional faith? ... Seems to me that the theist, though she may be emotional about her faith, doesn't seem to base her belief on that emotion, but rather a reasonable faith that her experience of God in her life is real, etc. Our experiences we can be emotional about them but that does nothing to undercut the fact that we actually have those experiences. Indeed why ARE theists so emotional about their experience if they supposedly don't exist in the first place? Shouldn't THAT cry out for explanation? What's there to be all emotional about if God doesn't exist?

That reminds me of when I was on a drug trip and I freaked out because I thoroughly believed my cat was hypnotizing me. What was there to freak out about if my cat wasn't really hypnotizing me? Oh, yea, delusion.

This is a good example to use for our discussion. You had a defeater for believing that your cat was actually hypnotizing you, that you took drugs. Whereas when the Christian has an experience of God or his works in their life or in creation, where is the defeater for that basic experience? Were they on drugs? You've got to provide some sort of defeater for Christian belief if you want to call Christians delusional. Or at least mistaken, the word delusional is a personal attack, and just makes people not want to be your friend.

There is no solid defeater. I'm just saying that emotions are no indication that God exists. I could get all emotional over the Great Fairy, but that doesn't mean I can use those emotions to justify a wrong believe in her existence.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
toolpot462
Posts: 289
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3/27/2013 12:06:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 12:04:18 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

It eliminates the paradox associated with Time Travel if it is.

If you travel back in time and, for instance, kill your grandparents, it doesn't affect your existence in your universe. It simply creates another, alternate universe.

It's also the only thing that makes sense given our current level of understanding in physics.

I have no idea, but I really like the theory.

We aren't exactly in dire need of a solution to the Grandfather paradox.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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3/27/2013 4:44:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:49:02 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think the multiverse exists for the simple fact that the constants of this universe allow life to form. I think there are an infinite amount of universes each with different properties, and consciousness arises only in those universes that are orderly. I find it highly unlikely (infinitely unlikely) that there is exactly one universe and it just so happened to form for life to form (I reject an intelligent designer).

100% of our observations are that there is one universe (by definition by the way) and it happens to have evolved life and consciousness, but your religious convictions demand that you reject science and assign 0% probability to all of the observations.

That would mean you are a religious fundamentalist, correct?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
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3/27/2013 4:58:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 12:04:18 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

It eliminates the paradox associated with Time Travel if it is.

If you travel back in time and, for instance, kill your grandparents, it doesn't affect your existence in your universe. It simply creates another, alternate universe.

Simply?

The grandparents paradox is a problem that physics needs to solve?

It's also the only thing that makes sense given our current level of understanding in physics.

Since this would breach the foundational 1st law of thermodynamics, it doesn't make sense given our current level of inderstanding in physics.

I have no idea, but I really like the theory.

I like fantasizing that there is a universe where I am the beloved king of the world with a harem of stunningly beautiful voracious women serving my every wish, I just don't think it's something you'd properly call a theory.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
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3/27/2013 5:15:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:28:40 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

I don't see any thing that would justify a firm belief that nature is limited to one universe. It seems like a semantic problem, actually; uni- meaning 'one'.

I think the burden of proof would be on the one asserting that nature is limited in such a way.

I think one of the most amazing unsolved mysteries of the universe is the magical convenience of the "burden of proof".

I mean, it works in a very mysterious way, if seems that if one rejects 100% of the evidence and makes any fantasy assertion whatsoever, the "burden of proof" is on others to prove that assertion wrong.

I just don't understand how one is to muster a proof when the basis of the assertion is that all evidence and all of the principles of science and logic are to be rejected. Under those assumptions, what would constitute a "proof?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
ConservativePolitico
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3/27/2013 9:07:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/27/2013 12:04:18 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 12:37:36 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
What do you think about the idea of a multiverse?
Are we just a layer of a larger existence?
Do you think it's a cop out to explain the way we ended up?
Is it plausible?

Discuss.

It eliminates the paradox associated with Time Travel if it is.

If you travel back in time and, for instance, kill your grandparents, it doesn't affect your existence in your universe. It simply creates another, alternate universe.

It's also the only thing that makes sense given our current level of understanding in physics.

I have no idea, but I really like the theory.

The paradox of time travel? lol you can't travel through time so there is no paradox.