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What is your perfect society?

Smithereens
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4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?
Smithereens vs Kenballer "Idealism infers Solipsism" http://www.debate.org...

"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
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muzebreak
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4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

This sounds like hell.....

Where is the inovation in a society where everyone thinks the same?


Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Smithereens
Posts: 7,398
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4/17/2013 5:32:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

This sounds like hell.....

Where is the inovation in a society where everyone thinks the same?

no one thinks the same. People just don't fight over disagreements.


Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

would that even solve violence?
Smithereens vs Kenballer "Idealism infers Solipsism" http://www.debate.org...

"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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4/17/2013 5:52:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 5:32:40 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

This sounds like hell.....

Where is the inovation in a society where everyone thinks the same?

no one thinks the same. People just don't fight over disagreements.

Ok, still doesn't sound great. Do you mean fight in the physical sense exclusively?



Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

would that even solve violence?

No, because some people enjoy violence, and that is their perogative. But it is the best we can hope for. I like to be realistic with my hopes and dreams.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Smithereens
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4/17/2013 6:59:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 5:52:27 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 5:32:40 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

This sounds like hell.....

Where is the inovation in a society where everyone thinks the same?

no one thinks the same. People just don't fight over disagreements.

Ok, still doesn't sound great. Do you mean fight in the physical sense exclusively?

yeah, fighting in physical sense. Hatred would be rare, but it would still exist. People would just hate to hate.



Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

would that even solve violence?

No, because some people enjoy violence, and that is their perogative. But it is the best we can hope for. I like to be realistic with my hopes and dreams.

Then it would be the best we can hope for today. But with enough technology, many things are possible.
Smithereens vs Kenballer "Idealism infers Solipsism" http://www.debate.org...

"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017
R0b1Billion
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4/17/2013 7:55:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mine would be a society that rejects the notion of accumulating material wealth to be happy.
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muzebreak
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4/17/2013 8:06:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 7:55:14 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Mine would be a society that rejects the notion of accumulating material wealth to be happy.

So, essentially, you don't like greedy people?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
glassplotful
Posts: 52
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4/17/2013 2:29:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

Would a purely non-violent solution have stopped Hitler's takeover of Europe?
ConservativePolitico
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4/17/2013 2:34:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 7:55:14 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Mine would be a society that rejects the notion of accumulating material wealth to be happy.

But to some people material wealth does bring happiness... for obvious reasons.
No one normal accomplished anything meaningful in this world.
muzebreak
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4/17/2013 2:38:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 2:29:24 PM, glassplotful wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

Would a purely non-violent solution have stopped Hitler's takeover of Europe?

I did not say 'a world where no one but the bad people use violence'. I said 'a world where people understand the ramifications of violence, and that it only solves problems that were unnecessary'. By unnecessary, I include problems like Hitlers attempt to takeover Europe. That event did not have to take place, it only arose due to anger at the jews, due to a misguided belief that they had caused the depression. And due to Hitler, and his manipulation and dictatorial reign of power. The problem is unnecessary in that a person caused it. It is not a natural occurrence, per say.

So, to answer your question; probably not.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
glassplotful
Posts: 52
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4/17/2013 2:44:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My perfect society would be one where all human emotion and preconceptions are removed from an argument. All opinions, regardless of whether someone vehemently disagrees with them or not, would be respected- but the strongest, most evidence-based opinion would be the one to be implemented. Nothing would be censored. Everything would be free to say, even during wartime.

The society would be one where arguments are based purely on scientific evidence with a high value on the human life. In cases where it is impossible to solve a problem with science (ex. abortion), we would solve such cases with the following in mind:

human life > human rights

These cases would be rare, since human rights usually don't interfere with human lives. The only exception to this rule is if the human life being lived is one of misery and sorrow, in which case human rights would prevail.
glassplotful
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4/17/2013 2:45:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 2:38:14 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 2:29:24 PM, glassplotful wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:54:38 AM, muzebreak wrote:
To me, the perfect society would simply be one where people understood the fact that violence only solves unnecessary problems, and creates even worse problems in the end.

Would a purely non-violent solution have stopped Hitler's takeover of Europe?

I did not say 'a world where no one but the bad people use violence'. I said 'a world where people understand the ramifications of violence, and that it only solves problems that were unnecessary'. By unnecessary, I include problems like Hitlers attempt to takeover Europe. That event did not have to take place, it only arose due to anger at the jews, due to a misguided belief that they had caused the depression. And due to Hitler, and his manipulation and dictatorial reign of power. The problem is unnecessary in that a person caused it. It is not a natural occurrence, per say.

So, to answer your question; probably not.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand now, and I agree.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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4/17/2013 2:46:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A society where I am the Sole Supreme Authoritarian Fascist Dictatorial Despotic Autocratic Totalitarian Tyrant over the ignorant masses.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
glassplotful
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4/17/2013 2:57:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 2:46:37 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
A society where I am the Sole Supreme Authoritarian Fascist Dictatorial Despotic Autocratic Totalitarian Tyrant over the ignorant masses.

Haha, I didn't think of that.
Skepsikyma
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4/17/2013 5:32:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A world without violence. It really would be that simple.
"See now Oblivion shimmering all around us, its very tranquility deadlier than tempest. How little all our keels have troubled it."
- Lord Dunsany -

"The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? "
- W. B. Yeats -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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4/17/2013 6:00:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I will post as soon as I can.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
YYW
Posts: 43,516
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4/17/2013 6:23:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

Plato's Republic would be fine with me.
THEVIRUS
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4/17/2013 7:15:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have always had dreams of taking over some island, and here is how I would rule:

I would hire mercenaries and take over a small island. We would then "adopt" children and grow them up on the barter system with an amazing new language(English as secondary, cause I hear being bilingual makes people amazing). A different time system, universal technology(wifi, cell connection, etc.) for everyone, measure in meters and Celsius for degrees.

We (me and my 'cabinet' of trained killers) would rule somewhat peacefully. Our 'common man' attitude would win over many, and our generosity and welfare systems will inspire immigration. We will build up a strong fighting force and conquer surrounding islands, while maintaining an aura that makes people glad we conquered.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
ConservativePolitico
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4/18/2013 10:46:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 6:23:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

Plato's Republic would be fine with me.

Goodness really? I take it you've read the Republic right? Because there was some pretty messed up stuff in there...
No one normal accomplished anything meaningful in this world.
R0b1Billion
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4/18/2013 8:52:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 8:06:11 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 4/17/2013 7:55:14 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Mine would be a society that rejects the notion of accumulating material wealth to be happy.

So, essentially, you don't like greedy people?

Everyone is greedy; I believe the concept of "original sin" refers to our innate tendencies towards pride, greed, etc. that we must learn to overcome. But yeah, I believe that greed is essentially the root of all sociopolitical struggles. Plato's Republic was mentioned recently; Plato, in Book 3, explains that the root of war is greed:
"
Then a slice of our neighbours' land will be wanted by us for pasture and tillage, and they will want a slice of ours, if, like ourselves, they exceed the limit of necessity, and give themselves up to the unlimited accumulation of wealth?

That, Socrates, will be inevitable.
And so we shall go to war, Glaucon. Shall we not?
Most certainly, he replied.
"

I am in complete agreement with Plato. Our modern economists are quite damaging to society, convincing us that we must grow, grow, grow!
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R0b1Billion
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4/18/2013 8:58:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 2:34:34 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/17/2013 7:55:14 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Mine would be a society that rejects the notion of accumulating material wealth to be happy.

But to some people material wealth does bring happiness... for obvious reasons.

It is obvious. However there is a struggle between necessity and luxury. Michael Irvin says that NFL players need many millions of dollars to "feed their kids..."

Instead of impressing each other with our ability to use resources, why do we not try to impress each other with our ability to survive without luxury? I have been slowly trying to remove material wealth from my life; I've gotten rid of the cell-phone so far and my house is mostly empty besides my appliances, guitars, and a laptop. I would love to stop driving but that is, so far, beyond my strength to achieve.
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suttichart.denpruektham
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4/18/2013 11:17:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

Protoss :-)
Smithereens
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4/19/2013 6:34:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 5:32:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
A world without violence. It really would be that simple.

violence is fun. Ask the gaming industry.
Smithereens vs Kenballer "Idealism infers Solipsism" http://www.debate.org...

"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017
AlbinoBunny
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4/19/2013 6:36:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't know. A lot of the negatives can be useful in certain situations.

Maybe a rational society?
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natoast
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4/19/2013 7:31:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:05:38 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Eh, I'm fine with how it is. With imperfections. Full of change to be sought.

Ha, its true, the whole point of life trying to make things better.
SovereignDream
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4/19/2013 10:50:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

I don't think a perfect society is achievable in this world. Aye, that comes after one's brief stay in this world.
Lukas8
Posts: 31
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10/30/2014 2:50:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The best society would be an utopia with an democratic scientific green and liberal socialism. Where crime wouldn't exist and life would be fair. The society should have a low population and its economy would work via. "produce always a bit more system", so that the wealth of citizens rises. With a lot of rights and no fear. Unemployment would be cancelled and money shouldn't be inflated and should lose its importance. No corruption with an open government, and the individual should have a dream, that would come true. No propaganda, no dictatorship, common renovations and stimulus spending. An atheist state with science and imagination on its rule, oh and non-nationalism (so that everybody would like to travel). And nationalities wouldnt exist, and coutries shouldnt exist as well, they should be called territory's.
Student4Life1975
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4/24/2015 4:51:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2013 4:48:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
Mine is a society where division has been eliminated. Not disagreements or anything, just division.
To do this, all people in the society somehow have perfect understanding of their fellow man. If there is something another person is offended by, everyone around him knows it and feels obliged to refrain from saying it. Each person would be selfless as a result of this perfect understanding. People would treat each other as if they were themselves. Everyone would still hold their own beliefs and ideas, but no one would cause a division or a conflict in the society because of it.

Like it is natural for a human body to favour a hurt foot over all other limbs, so people in this society would naturally feel the need to help anyone less fortunate than themselves as if they were apart of the same body. People would stop feeling the need to make corporations and monopolies and governments would be replaced by a common understanding of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it needs to be done, with the appropriate people supported by the rest of the society executing the will of the majority.

What's yours?

The perfect society? Awesome question. For me it would somehow exclude physical suffering like starvation, lack of shelter and adequate clothing etc.. And also mental suffering like lack of education, ignorance and understanding. We would all be trained to think in far more constructive and logical ways. The Education system would be far more centered on intelligent topics like philosophy, math and physics, literature and mental / physical health. Not so much teaching but more open discussion and debate on topics that warrant it. There would be a resource based economy and no monetary economy, like the Venus Project advocates. Nobody would be in need of anything, there would be no rich / middle class / poor. Therefore all necessities would be provided to everyone, like housing, clothing, food and water, transportation etc. Crime would drop significantly as a result, and those who commited crime anyways would be sent to Mars.
there is no progress without compromise"