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Infinite Learning

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/23/2013 4:24:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

I doubt it. It does sound nice though.
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TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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4/23/2013 5:10:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

Perhaps. But the concept is too abstract to become comprehensible. I, myself, could not understand the very meaning of "infinity."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/23/2013 7:19:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In one sense yes, in another, no. Since we can't live to infinity, there's obviously a physical limit to how much we can know. But in principle, I'd say yes. Numbers are infinite. You can get some unique knowledge in any number. Therefore, there are are infinite amount of things to learn (though of course, you'll never reach the infinity). The only slightly debatable premise, I think, is that there exists unique knowledge in every number, but I think it's pretty easily justified. There isn't a name for every number, but you can write any given number down, or think of any number. There's no point in which you can stop adding zeros, so to speak. That means there are an infinite amount of facts, all of which posses unique truth and are attainable to us. Since knowledge is an understanding of truth, or justified true belief, there are an infinite amount of things to know given the infinite amount of facts. Nothing special about it though. The implications have no pragmatic effect at all.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
APB
Posts: 267
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4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.
APB
Posts: 267
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4/23/2013 8:52:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.

Then you still won't get infinite learning, as you're overwriting old stuff.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 7:58:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

Robert Frost compared knowledge to a clearing in the woods, "the greater the clearing the more contact you have with the unknown" and I think that is the case, so yes, I think learning there is an infinite amount of things to be known.

I started my career in the telephony business, where switching, which is connecting phones, is serious business, and I think learning is about making connections. The fact is the more phones you have the more possible connections you have, in the switching matrix if there are only 4 telephones, there are twelve possible connection that can be made, but as you add phones, the number of possible connections grows geometrically. 40 phones require the switching matrix to support 1560 connection, a million phones requires a switching matrix that supports almost a trillion connections.

I think learning is about making connections, and it operates the same way, the more knowledge we have, the more connections can be made, and it grows geometrically.

This is why, despite what everything thinks, I am not actually all knowing, I just appear to be. :)
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 8:01:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 5:10:50 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

Perhaps. But the concept is too abstract to become comprehensible. I, myself, could not understand the very meaning of "infinity."

The mathematical concept of infinity isn't hard to understand, a mathematical series that grows exponentially approaches infinity, one third as a decimal has an infinitely repeating decimal, it's a simple concept.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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4/24/2013 8:01:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

But if we assume one can live on forever (immortality), then there is at least one object with an infinite number of properties: Time. So in this case, can we still conclude that there is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, given the fact that we have unlimited time to learn?
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 8:06:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

Nonsense, a self replicating infinite series is possible, you get one when you represent 1/3 as a decimal, the exponential growth of knowledge sets up a self replicating infinite series of possible new knowdge, in the same way that the finite fraction 1/3 sets up an infite series of decimals.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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4/24/2013 8:07:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 8:01:06 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 4/23/2013 5:10:50 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

Perhaps. But the concept is too abstract to become comprehensible. I, myself, could not understand the very meaning of "infinity."

The mathematical concept of infinity isn't hard to understand, a mathematical series that grows exponentially approaches infinity, one third as a decimal has an infinitely repeating decimal, it's a simple concept.

But the main problem is we cannot visualize or materialize infinity. Mathematical concept of infinity is rather abstract. It is a symbol that is invented by mathematicians. Just like zero.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 8:11:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 8:52:41 PM, APB wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.

Then you still won't get infinite learning, as you're overwriting old stuff.

Nonsense again, you are overwriting old stuff on a different level, so it is different stuff. Again to 1/3 as a decimal, you can say the repeating 3 is rewriting old stuff, but each 3 is on a differnt level, the next 3 in the series is not the same as the prior 3, it's numerical value is 1/10th of the prior 3 in the infinite series.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/24/2013 9:09:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 8:11:54 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:52:41 PM, APB wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.

Then you still won't get infinite learning, as you're overwriting old stuff.

Nonsense again, you are overwriting old stuff on a different level, so it is different stuff. Again to 1/3 as a decimal, you can say the repeating 3 is rewriting old stuff, but each 3 is on a differnt level, the next 3 in the series is not the same as the prior 3, it's numerical value is 1/10th of the prior 3 in the infinite series.

Exactly what I was thinking.

So then is this, in theory, a plausible thing to think about?
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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4/24/2013 9:47:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 8:11:54 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:52:41 PM, APB wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.

Then you still won't get infinite learning, as you're overwriting old stuff.

Nonsense again, you are overwriting old stuff on a different level, so it is different stuff. Again to 1/3 as a decimal, you can say the repeating 3 is rewriting old stuff, but each 3 is on a differnt level, the next 3 in the series is not the same as the prior 3, it's numerical value is 1/10th of the prior 3 in the infinite series.

hear, hear.
Sui_Generis
Posts: 493
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4/24/2013 10:11:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If we were the same, just immortal? No, we would never run out. I already don't remember how many cups of flour go in pancakes, and I just made them last year. Imagine how many times you could learn to play chess after forgetting after a 100-year abstinence from it! Relearn all the techniques, etc.
"Mundus vult decipi--the world wants to be deceived. The truth is too complex and frightening; the taste for the truth is an acquired taste that few acquire."
-Martin Buber, I and Thou
medv4380
Posts: 200
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4/24/2013 10:39:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 8:07:12 AM, TheElderScroll wrote:
But the main problem is we cannot visualize or materialize infinity. Mathematical concept of infinity is rather abstract. It is a symbol that is invented by mathematicians. Just like zero.

Since it appears that your argument is that an Infinite cannot actually exist, and that Zero cannot actually exist. Can you give me an argument that disputes infinite density that is not circular?
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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4/24/2013 11:46:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 10:39:43 AM, medv4380 wrote:
At 4/24/2013 8:07:12 AM, TheElderScroll wrote:
But the main problem is we cannot visualize or materialize infinity. Mathematical concept of infinity is rather abstract. It is a symbol that is invented by mathematicians. Just like zero.

Since it appears that your argument is that an Infinite cannot actually exist, and that Zero cannot actually exist. Can you give me an argument that disputes infinite density that is not circular?

Nay. That is not what I am arguing. I did not suggest that infinity cannot exist. Rather, I was trying to argue that as a human being, we are incapable of understanding the nature of it. What is infinity? You can keep dividing 1/3 by 3, but that is not infinity. It is a process that may eventually lead us to infinity. But no one is there yet.

Since Mathematicians use "Limit" and "approach" whenever they try to find the limit of a function, I would argue that infinity, in a common sense, is merely a mathematical symbol.
YYW
Posts: 36,426
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4/24/2013 11:52:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

The more we learn about other things, the more informed we become about what we already new, because new information may change the way we see the world.

What you've described, CP, is the way that people ought to live their lives. The problem is that when people are presented with new information, they try to reconcile it with what they already know, in effort to avoid cognitive dissonance, rather than reevaluate what they know on the basis of what they have just learned.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 1:59:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 9:09:04 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/24/2013 8:11:54 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:52:41 PM, APB wrote:
At 4/23/2013 8:45:56 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 4/23/2013 7:38:24 PM, APB wrote:
No.

There is a finite amount of stuff in this universe, with a finite number of properties that have a finite range of values. It is physically impossible to have an infinite amount of information, or to interpret that information an infinite number of ways.

I don't know, I think the more you learn, the more you change and then you gain new perspective on things and then relearn them in a sense.

Then you still won't get infinite learning, as you're overwriting old stuff.

Nonsense again, you are overwriting old stuff on a different level, so it is different stuff. Again to 1/3 as a decimal, you can say the repeating 3 is rewriting old stuff, but each 3 is on a differnt level, the next 3 in the series is not the same as the prior 3, it's numerical value is 1/10th of the prior 3 in the infinite series.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Great minds think a like.

So then is this, in theory, a plausible thing to think about?

I think so, but practically speaking, I think Salma Hayek would be a much better thing to think about.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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4/24/2013 2:20:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/24/2013 8:07:12 AM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 4/24/2013 8:01:06 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 4/23/2013 5:10:50 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 4/23/2013 3:09:41 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Do you think there's an infinite amount of things to learn?

For example, say you study topic A. Then topic B. Then topic C.

Topic C then gives you new insight into topic A so that you see it differently thus learning something new. This new perspective then makes you reevaluate Topic B which leads to you studying topic D.

Can this pattern repeat in an endless cycle of learning and gaining new knowledge and new perspective?

If someone was immortal could this cycle ever end?

Perhaps. But the concept is too abstract to become comprehensible. I, myself, could not understand the very meaning of "infinity."

The mathematical concept of infinity isn't hard to understand, a mathematical series that grows exponentially approaches infinity, one third as a decimal has an infinitely repeating decimal, it's a simple concept.

But the main problem is we cannot visualize or materialize infinity.

No, but mathematical infinity is a relatively easy concept to understand..and if you want to visualize something, I'm suggesting we forget about infinity and visualize Salma Hayak.

Mathematical concept of infinity is rather abstract.

Yes, but understanding a simple infinity like a repeating decimal might be abstract, but it"s not that complex.

It is a symbol that is invented by mathematicians. Just like zero.

Yes, but all of our words and concepts are symbols, human beings are a symbolic animal. Truth implies correspondence with reality, and correspondence calls for representation. What we call truth is a matter of correspondence between our symbolic representations and the reality we are representing, our concepts aren't the thing being represented, they are symbolic representations of that reality.

Mathematical Infinity is a concept, and that concept is very useful in representing certain ideas about reality, but always seems like we all want to find it much more mysterious than it is. 1/3 represented as a decimal is not mysterious, yeah, you could never do the infinite number of divisions to achieve the infinite series, but that doesn't make it all that hard to understand or represent 1/3 as a decimal, it"s just .333"
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater