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Vegan Speech

vbaculum
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5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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5/28/2013 1:16:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.

I have always been suspicious of vegans. I just sort of imagine that they are the same kind of people who will be arguing that beastiality is a legitimate sexual identity, and lobbying for man-beast marriages later on. Today it's about giving animals rights... tomorrow it will be about human-animal equality. Enough is enough. We must stand our ground, together, and eat steak, pork chops, lamb shanks and turducken. Carnivores, unite!
Tsar of DDO
vbaculum
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5/28/2013 1:21:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hillarious. Is that a allusion to the miscegenation pamplet hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org...)?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
YYW
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5/28/2013 2:35:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 1:21:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Hillarious. Is that a allusion to the miscegenation pamplet hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org...)?

I was being completely serious. lol
Tsar of DDO
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/28/2013 2:42:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.



An hour long video. LOL. Yeah, let's see them comments.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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5/28/2013 2:57:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Many people embrace veganism because they love animals, and do not want them to suffer. But animals eat vegetables, and vegetarians also eat vegetables, so really, when you embrace veganism, you are stealing an animals food. So what is nicer to the animal: a quick, painless slaughter, or stealing its food and slowly starving it to death?
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
vbaculum
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5/28/2013 4:21:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 2:42:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.



An hour long video. LOL. Yeah, let's see them comments.

If you give it 5 minutes, you'll get sucked it.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/28/2013 4:25:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 2:35:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:21:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Hillarious. Is that a allusion to the miscegenation pamplet hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org...)?

I was being completely serious. lol

Sorry. I took a sleeping pill last night, and I was a little out of sorts this morning.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Eitan_Zohar
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5/28/2013 4:32:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Waaaaahh! Animals are suf-FER-ing! Injustice!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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5/28/2013 4:48:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 4:25:26 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 2:35:18 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:21:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Hillarious. Is that a allusion to the miscegenation pamplet hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org...)?

I was being completely serious. lol

Sorry. I took a sleeping pill last night, and I was a little out of sorts this morning.

So in case it wasn't clear, that was me... joking.
Tsar of DDO
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/28/2013 4:57:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.


Just first 3 minutes has several inaccuracies.

Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status, so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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5/28/2013 4:59:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
if you treat a dog like a human than he will treat you like a dog
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/28/2013 5:02:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 4:59:18 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
if you treat a dog like a human than he will treat you like a dog
True. Even so, your average dog is probably a better "person" than your average person!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/28/2013 6:19:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 4:57:48 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.


Just first 3 minutes has several inaccuracies.

Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status, so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing.

His argument isn't that we should elevate animals to human status. It's that we shouldn't needlessly hurt them. Where do you hear him saying that we should elevate animals to human status? Why in the world would he want the status of the species that he is a member of lowered?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
The_Chaos_Heart
Posts: 404
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5/29/2013 12:00:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.

What makes you think I did not watch the video? The fact that I disagree?

"If you don't agree with me, you just don't understand my argument!!!"

Uhuh. Sure buddy. Sure. *patpat*
Mirza
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5/29/2013 12:04:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I won't watch the video now -- if you have a point to make, please proceed. I've watched plenty videos from vegans and vegetarians, most of which happen to be complete nonsense.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/29/2013 1:32:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 6:19:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 4:57:48 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.

Just first 3 minutes has several inaccuracies.

Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status, so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing.

His argument isn't that we should elevate animals to human status.
That must be why I never said that that was his argument. I distinctly remember saying just the opposite of that: lower humans to animal status.

It's that we shouldn't needlessly hurt them.
And I agree but I think that we probably don't see eye-to-eye on what our "needs" are.

Where do you hear him saying that we should elevate animals to human status?
The same place you hear me saying it: no where. Let me know when you're done playing with your strawman.

Why in the world would he want the status of the species that he is a member of lowered?
I ask myself that very thing! Indeed: why do people do "stupid" things? That is the age old question!

We are very similar in many respects to the animals we like to eat, just like he went on about in his speech. The same can be said about those animals which we use as "beasts of burden". Like these animals, some of us eat other animals as well as plants; some of us do not. In this respect, we are not better than them, and they no better than us.

However, there are some things in which we are different to all other animals: this is what makes us "human beings". In this respect, we are SOMETIMES better than them and they are SOMETIMES better than us.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/29/2013 3:00:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 12:00:58 AM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.

What makes you think I did not watch the video? The fact that I disagree?

"If you don't agree with me, you just don't understand my argument!!!"

Uhuh. Sure buddy. Sure. *patpat*

Yeah yeah. Look at it this way, if you watch the video, you will have something interesting to say in this thread. And the next time you see the word "vegan", you can say something more insightful than, "that's stupid". Take the opportunities you're given in life to expand your mind.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/29/2013 3:05:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 12:04:23 AM, Mirza wrote:
I won't watch the video now -- if you have a point to make, please proceed. I've watched plenty videos from vegans and vegetarians, most of which happen to be complete nonsense.

That's a very interesting point about other videos you've watched.

Anyway, the point I was making was that this is a good video and I would like to discuss its contents. If you want to watch it and criticize it, your future posts in this thread would be relevant and potentially interesting.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/29/2013 3:30:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 1:32:34 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 6:19:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 4:57:48 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.

Just first 3 minutes has several inaccuracies.

Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status, so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing.

His argument isn't that we should elevate animals to human status.
That must be why I never said that that was his argument. I distinctly remember saying just the opposite of that: lower humans to animal status.

It's that we shouldn't needlessly hurt them.
And I agree but I think that we probably don't see eye-to-eye on what our "needs" are.

Our needs are to be healthy and live long. The science is very clear that animal-based foods increase hypertension, cholesterol, cancer, rates of heart disease and diebetes. The science also strongly suggests animal foods reduces longevity.

As I recall, the speaker mentioned 4 reasons humans continue to eat animals. The 2 I remember are tradition and taste. Do these count as needs? What counts as a sufficiently justifiable reason for causing an animal to suffer extreme pain, in your opinion? That's the crux of this argument, and I don't think that question can be answered without resorting to some sort of sophistry. But maybe you can wow me.


Where do you hear him saying that we should elevate animals to human status?
The same place you hear me saying it: no where. Let me know when you're done playing with your strawman.

Don't be a child. You said the only alternative to lowering humans to animal status is to increase the status of animals to humans. By using the word "alternative", you seemed to be implying that the speakers would like to raise animals to human status.

I don't pretend to know what form of paranoia or dementia would make you think anything like this in the first place. I just wanted to set the record straight that I wasn't using a strawman, and that you are acting like a child in making the accusation.

Why in the world would he want the status of the species that he is a member of lowered?
I ask myself that very thing! Indeed: why do people do "stupid" things? That is the age old question!

So you can't provide a motive or any evidence that this is his intention.


We are very similar in many respects to the animals we like to eat, just like he went on about in his speech. The same can be said about those animals which we use as "beasts of burden". Like these animals, some of us eat other animals as well as plants; some of us do not. In this respect, we are not better than them, and they no better than us.

However, there are some things in which we are different to all other animals: this is what makes us "human beings". In this respect, we are SOMETIMES better than them and they are SOMETIMES better than us.

Regardless, thanks for at least watching the video before you commented on it.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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5/29/2013 3:47:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
you said meats have problems. well here's something you might want to consider plants are a tad bit more complicated to work with. like how you grow then how they are cooked, chopped etc.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
The_Chaos_Heart
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5/29/2013 3:58:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 3:00:51 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/29/2013 12:00:58 AM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.

What makes you think I did not watch the video? The fact that I disagree?

"If you don't agree with me, you just don't understand my argument!!!"

Uhuh. Sure buddy. Sure. *patpat*

Yeah yeah. Look at it this way, if you watch the video, you will have something interesting to say in this thread. And the next time you see the word "vegan", you can say something more insightful than, "that's stupid". Take the opportunities you're given in life to expand your mind.

You missed the entire point of my post.

I DID watch the video.

Your video is not some mind blowing, miracle elixer, that will radically alter everyone who watches it. What arrogance.

I watched it, I still disagree with moralistic veganism.

Oh, but I suppose your response will be "You just don't GET it man! If only you'd open your eyes, THEN you'd see how wrong you are!"

Uhuh. Talk to me when you have an actual argument.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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5/29/2013 4:12:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 2:57:28 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Many people embrace veganism because they love animals, and do not want them to suffer. But animals eat vegetables, and vegetarians also eat vegetables, so really, when you embrace veganism, you are stealing an animals food. So what is nicer to the animal: a quick, painless slaughter, or stealing its food and slowly starving it to death?

I still don't think anybody has addressed my perfect logic on why veganism is immoral.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/30/2013 1:15:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 3:58:55 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/29/2013 3:00:51 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/29/2013 12:00:58 AM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.

What makes you think I did not watch the video? The fact that I disagree?

"If you don't agree with me, you just don't understand my argument!!!"

Uhuh. Sure buddy. Sure. *patpat*

Yeah yeah. Look at it this way, if you watch the video, you will have something interesting to say in this thread. And the next time you see the word "vegan", you can say something more insightful than, "that's stupid". Take the opportunities you're given in life to expand your mind.

You missed the entire point of my post.

I DID watch the video.

Your video is not some mind blowing, miracle elixer, that will radically alter everyone who watches it. What arrogance.

I watched it, I still disagree with moralistic veganism.

Oh, but I suppose your response will be "You just don't GET it man! If only you'd open your eyes, THEN you'd see how wrong you are!"

Uhuh. Talk to me when you have an actual argument.

LOL. But that's what I'm asking of you. You said that the moral arguments for veganism are idiotic. You never gave an argument for that assertion.

The point of the thread was to provide a video that clearly stated the moral arguments (as well as the environment and health arguments) for veganism, and to start a dialogue based on that.

I don't know. Maybe you're a subjectivists who things morality is whatever you *feel* to be right or wrong. If that's the case: great, thanks for sharing your feelings with us, but it wasn't necessary. If, on the other hand, you think moral arguments have some objective weight to them, then please share them.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/30/2013 1:28:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 4:12:00 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 5/28/2013 2:57:28 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Many people embrace veganism because they love animals, and do not want them to suffer. But animals eat vegetables, and vegetarians also eat vegetables, so really, when you embrace veganism, you are stealing an animals food. So what is nicer to the animal: a quick, painless slaughter, or stealing its food and slowly starving it to death?

I still don't think anybody has addressed my perfect logic on why veganism is immoral.

"Farm animal" are domesticated species. That means they couldn't live without us; we grow them in factory farms.

They are usually feed vegetables like soy, corns. The content of their diets are dictated by the farmers to meet certain market objectives.

There is an obscenity to this because the amount of soy and corn that are feed to these animals could end human starvation if those yeilds were diverted to human populations.

Farmed animals will suffer in life and to death as long as animals farming is practiced. But we aren't eating their food; they're eating ours.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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5/31/2013 12:04:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/28/2013 1:16:00 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.

I have always been suspicious of vegans. I just sort of imagine that they are the same kind of people who will be arguing that beastiality is a legitimate sexual identity, and lobbying for man-beast marriages later on. Today it's about giving animals rights... tomorrow it will be about human-animal equality. Enough is enough. We must stand our ground, together, and eat steak, pork chops, lamb shanks and turducken. Carnivores, unite!

I'll lobby for man-beast marriages when, and if, dolphins start signing contracts.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/31/2013 5:06:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 3:30:56 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/29/2013 1:32:34 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 6:19:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 4:57:48 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/28/2013 1:12:06 AM, vbaculum wrote:
This is probably one of the best delivered speeches outlining the ethical and environmental arguments for veganism. I look forward to your comments.

Just first 3 minutes has several inaccuracies.

Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status, so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing.

His argument isn't that we should elevate animals to human status.
That must be why I never said that that was his argument. I distinctly remember saying just the opposite of that: lower humans to animal status.

It's that we shouldn't needlessly hurt them.
And I agree but I think that we probably don't see eye-to-eye on what our "needs" are.
Our needs are to be healthy and live long.
Those are actually wants, not needs.

The science is very clear that animal-based foods increase hypertension, cholesterol, cancer, rates of heart disease and diebetes.
Nonsense. The science on health isn't very clear at all. Some of the healthiest people on earth (at least up until they began eating processed foods) were Eskimos. They eat tons of red meat and blubber (ie fat) and have very low incidence of heart disease.

The science also strongly suggests animal foods reduces longevity.
Also nonsense. It's all of the chemicals and processed foods that we eat.

As I recall, the speaker mentioned 4 reasons humans continue to eat animals.
I'm not sure that I agree on all of them.

The 2 I remember are tradition and taste. Do these count as needs?
Those are more wants than needs. Regardless, their's also convenience, low cost, and in some cases there is actual necessity.

What counts as a sufficiently justifiable reason for causing an animal to suffer extreme pain, in your opinion?
I do not agree that all slaughtered animals suffer extreme pain. I'd say the grand majority do not as the process is very quick.

That's the crux of this argument, and I don't think that question can be answered without resorting to some sort of sophistry. But maybe you can wow me.
It's not very complicated: when it comes to eating we are no different than our animal counter parts.

Where do you hear him saying that we should elevate animals to human status?
The same place you hear me saying it: no where. Let me know when you're done playing with your strawman.
Don't be a child.
A child is more apt to resort to strawmen; ergo, it is you that is being childish.

You said the only alternative to lowering humans to animal status is to increase the status of animals to humans. By using the word "alternative", you seemed to be implying that the speakers would like to raise animals to human status.
You need to brush up on reading comprehension. Here is exactly what I wrote:

"Clearly one cannot elevate animals to human status,"...
What I am saying is that it is clearly not possible for ANYONE to be able to elevate animals to human status. As such, the speaker is NOT doing this because it is an impossible thing to do.

..."so the only alternative left is to lower humans to animal status. In the end, that is what he is pushing."
So, the only other thing that ANYONE can do is to lower humans to animal status and THAT is what the speaker in the video is doing. So I am saying that the speaker is pushing for lowering humans to animal status.

I don't pretend to know what form of paranoia or dementia would make you think anything like this in the first place. I just wanted to set the record straight that I wasn't using a strawman, and that you are acting like a child in making the accusation.
You are using a strawman as I clearly explained. If you misunderstood me, then that is another matter altogether; however, even after I explained to you that that was NOT what I said you continue to address YOUR misinterpretation. That as well as the ad hominems "paranoia" and "dementia" are clear signs of childish behavior. Hopefully you can now actually address what I said.

Why in the world would he want the status of the species that he is a member of lowered?
I ask myself that very thing! Indeed: why do people do "stupid" things? That is the age old question!
So you can't provide a motive or any evidence that this is his intention.
A motive for why people do stupid things? Can anyone really explain that or does it even matter? Anyways, if you're so smart then why don't you give it a crack?

As far as evidence, his speech is riddled with it. He is constantly putting humans on the same level as animals throughout the entire speech!

We are very similar in many respects to the animals we like to eat, just like he went on about in his speech. The same can be said about those animals which we use as "beasts of burden". Like these animals, some of us eat other animals as well as plants; some of us do not. In this respect, we are not better than them, and they no better than us.
However, there are some things in which we are different to all other animals: this is what makes us "human beings". In this respect, we are SOMETIMES better than them and they are SOMETIMES better than us.
Regardless, thanks for at least watching the video before you commented on it.
You're welcome. I find him to be genuine; it "feels" as if he truly believes and is passionate about what he's expressing. I can respect that, even though I do not agree with him. However, IMHO what he is suggesting comes down to this: lowering people down to animal status. I believe that to be VERY dangerous for a civil society.

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At 5/29/2013 4:12:00 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 5/28/2013 2:57:28 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Many people embrace veganism because they love animals, and do not want them to suffer. But animals eat vegetables, and vegetarians also eat vegetables, so really, when you embrace veganism, you are stealing an animals food. So what is nicer to the animal: a quick, painless slaughter, or stealing its food and slowly starving it to death?

I still don't think anybody has addressed my perfect logic on why veganism is immoral.
That's because you are right!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
toolpot462
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5/31/2013 6:18:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/29/2013 3:58:55 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/29/2013 3:00:51 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/29/2013 12:00:58 AM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:45:54 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2013 11:35:47 PM, The_Chaos_Heart wrote:
Veganism on moral grounds is idiotic

/thread

I don't think that, if you had watched the video, you could have said that.

What makes you think I did not watch the video? The fact that I disagree?

"If you don't agree with me, you just don't understand my argument!!!"

Uhuh. Sure buddy. Sure. *patpat*

Yeah yeah. Look at it this way, if you watch the video, you will have something interesting to say in this thread. And the next time you see the word "vegan", you can say something more insightful than, "that's stupid". Take the opportunities you're given in life to expand your mind.

You missed the entire point of my post.

I DID watch the video.

Your video is not some mind blowing, miracle elixer, that will radically alter everyone who watches it. What arrogance.

I watched it, I still disagree with moralistic veganism.

Oh, but I suppose your response will be "You just don't GET it man! If only you'd open your eyes, THEN you'd see how wrong you are!"

Uhuh. Talk to me when you have an actual argument.

Why don't you formulate an actual argument?
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.