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What Does it Mean to be a Man?

RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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5/30/2013 12:15:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've asked this question before on other websites, and I'm curious as to how the average DDOer will answer, considering so many of us are young and still in the process of becoming men. So, what does it mean to be a man? Answers from the ladies of DDO will be particularly interesting.

Have at it!
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/30/2013 12:23:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I'll start out by giving people a multiple choice answer. Shouldn't take too much thought.

Which one is correct? A man is:

A. A human with xy chromosomes
B. A human with male primary sexual characteristics (i.e. penis)
C. A human that is not a woman.
D. A human with a specific set of character traits (i.e. bravery)

Enjoy!
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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5/30/2013 12:25:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 12:23:21 PM, Wnope wrote:
Well, I'll start out by giving people a multiple choice answer. Shouldn't take too much thought.

Which one is correct? A man is:

A. A human with xy chromosomes
B. A human with male primary sexual characteristics (i.e. penis)
C. A human that is not a woman.
D. A human with a specific set of character traits (i.e. bravery)

Enjoy!

This question is geared towards traits and/or rights of passage. The other things (y chromosome, penis, not being a woman) are qualities boys have as well.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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5/30/2013 12:34:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 12:23:21 PM, Wnope wrote:
Well, I'll start out by giving people a multiple choice answer. Shouldn't take too much thought.

Which one is correct? A man is:

A. A human with xy chromosomes
B. A human with male primary sexual characteristics (i.e. penis)
C. A human that is not a woman.
D. A human with a specific set of character traits (i.e. bravery)

Enjoy!

Yes this is good in a man. It's a must.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
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5/30/2013 12:35:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 12:15:07 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I've asked this question before on other websites, and I'm curious as to how the average DDOer will answer, considering so many of us are young and still in the process of becoming men. So, what does it mean to be a man? Answers from the ladies of DDO will be particularly interesting.

Have at it!

They have to be sensible.
They have to be caring.
They have to be confident.
They have to be authoritative in their relationship.

These are some. =)
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The context of the question implies we are talking about character traits rather chromosomes. It's actually not a contradiction to say that a woman should "man up," because it suggests that a character imbalance.

Men protect women and children, preserve social order, take significant risks to achieve rewards, and take action rather than ponder. Men build things, women collect things. Men are grateful for whatever they have; they strive to do better, but they don't whine. Men seek women, and women seek security.

No individual should be obliged to conform to a male or female stereotype. A good society requires a balance. An interesting BBC documentary studied male and female personality types. They had about seven men and seven women covering a spectrum of personality traits. A woman engineer was the "most masculine" of the women. They gave all of the people the task of changing a baby diaper. All seven of the women concluded by picking up the baby and goo-goo gaa-gaaing to comfort the child. Only one of the men did that, and he was the most hard-over masculine stereotype, a guy with hair on his hair.

Present American society is thoroughly feminine. The people want to be protected, coddled, and to have all risk removed. In return, they are willing to give up the chance for anything beyond mediocrity. They want to be victims and to perpetually whine.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 1:16:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The context of the question implies we are talking about character traits rather chromosomes. It's actually not a contradiction to say that a woman should "man up," because it suggests that a character imbalance.

This is exceptionally sexist. Are women inherently of imbalanced character?

Men protect women and children, preserve social order, take significant risks to achieve rewards, and take action rather than ponder. Men build things, women collect things. Men are grateful for whatever they have; they strive to do better, but they don't whine. Men seek women, and women seek security.

Do women not protect men and children? Do women not care about preserving the social order? Do women not take significant risks to achieve rewards? Are men truly impulsive? Do women not build things, do men not collect things? Are women not grateful for whatever they have? Do women not strive to do better? Do women whine? Do men truly not whine? Do men not seek security?

No individual should be obliged to conform to a male or female stereotype. A good society requires a balance. An interesting BBC documentary studied male and female personality types. They had about seven men and seven women covering a spectrum of personality traits. A woman engineer was the "most masculine" of the women. They gave all of the people the task of changing a baby diaper. All seven of the women concluded by picking up the baby and goo-goo gaa-gaaing to comfort the child. Only one of the men did that, and he was the most hard-over masculine stereotype, a guy with hair on his hair.

Statistically insignificant and indeed fully conforming to stereotype.

Present American society is thoroughly feminine. The people want to be protected, coddled, and to have all risk removed. In return, they are willing to give up the chance for anything beyond mediocrity. They want to be victims and to perpetually whine.

You're free to your opinion. That's what I associate with American society.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
BigSky
Posts: 141
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5/30/2013 1:17:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The context of the question implies we are talking about character traits rather chromosomes. It's actually not a contradiction to say that a woman should "man up," because it suggests that a character imbalance.

Men protect women and children, preserve social order, take significant risks to achieve rewards, and take action rather than ponder. Men build things, women collect things. Men are grateful for whatever they have; they strive to do better, but they don't whine. Men seek women, and women seek security.

No individual should be obliged to conform to a male or female stereotype. A good society requires a balance. An interesting BBC documentary studied male and female personality types. They had about seven men and seven women covering a spectrum of personality traits. A woman engineer was the "most masculine" of the women. They gave all of the people the task of changing a baby diaper. All seven of the women concluded by picking up the baby and goo-goo gaa-gaaing to comfort the child. Only one of the men did that, and he was the most hard-over masculine stereotype, a guy with hair on his hair.

Present American society is thoroughly feminine. The people want to be protected, coddled, and to have all risk removed. In return, they are willing to give up the chance for anything beyond mediocrity. They want to be victims and to perpetually whine.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain temporary security deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

The definition given is what a man isn't.
BigSky
Posts: 141
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5/30/2013 1:19:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Men and women are equal, however, that does not mean they are equal in what they do. The man should be the one defending the family because he is physically more apt to do it. The woman should care for the child because she is more apt to do it.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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5/30/2013 1:36:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 12:25:51 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 5/30/2013 12:23:21 PM, Wnope wrote:
Well, I'll start out by giving people a multiple choice answer. Shouldn't take too much thought.

Which one is correct? A man is:

A. A human with xy chromosomes
B. A human with male primary sexual characteristics (i.e. penis)
C. A human that is not a woman.
D. A human with a specific set of character traits (i.e. bravery)

Enjoy!

This question is geared towards traits and/or rights of passage. The other things (y chromosome, penis, not being a woman) are qualities boys have as well.

There is no such distinction.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 1:42:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Regarding the OP specifically, this is NOT a man:

http://tv.yahoo.com...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/30/2013 3:46:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is what being a man is all about.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
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5/30/2013 3:50:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:

Men protect women and children, preserve social order, take significant risks to achieve rewards, and take action rather than ponder.

I don't agree with that. There have always been more male philosophers than female philosophers. Men can be quite reflective.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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5/30/2013 3:55:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Men seek women...

http://www.myfacewhen.net...
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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5/30/2013 4:14:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.artofmanliness.com...
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 4:19:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 12:23:21 PM, Wnope wrote:
Well, I'll start out by giving people a multiple choice answer. Shouldn't take too much thought.

Which one is correct? A man is:

A. A human with xy chromosomes
B. A human with male primary sexual characteristics (i.e. penis)
C. A human that is not a woman.
D. A human with a specific set of character traits (i.e. bravery)

Enjoy!

This is the best response.

Ryuu, it seems like you were asking for a "moral" distinction that's intrinsic to manhood, and I think ideas like that are outdated and fundamentally wrong. We should not ask what it means to be a man or a woman, but ask what it means to be a human being.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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5/30/2013 4:21:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 3:55:13 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 5/30/2013 1:06:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Men seek women...

http://www.myfacewhen.net...

This

Besides, I hope that anyone who claims that men aren't manly on account of their homosexuality can outshine the bravery and honor of the Sacred Band of Thebes, or the Spartan military.

"It is likely, therefore, that this band was called sacred on this account; as Plato calls a lover a divine friend. It is stated that it was never beaten till the battle at Chaeronea: and when Philip, after the fight, took a view of the slain, and came to the place where the three hundred that fought his phalanx lay dead together, he wondered, and understanding that it was the band of lovers, he shed tears and said, "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything that was base.""
- Plutarch -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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5/30/2013 6:15:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
That you have a big...

heart...

metaphorically.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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5/30/2013 6:36:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hehe I guess I should give my position on this topic now.

There are people in this world with penises who don't think of themselves or want to be thought of as men. Likewise, there are people in this world with vaginas who DO think of themselves as men, so obviously there's more to being a man than having a penis and a y chromosome. Furthermore, we don't think of children with penises as men either, so their clearly a distinction between what constitutes a "man" and what constitutes a human being with a penis.

Now that that's out of the way...

First things first, men are physically mature. I think we'd all agree on that more or less. After that, what separates men from women are how masculine they are. I adhere to the Taoist concept of masculinity and femininity, which aligns with the concept of yin-yang. Yang is masculine, it pushes. Yin is feminine, it pulls. Therefore, to be a man is to push, and to be a woman is to pull.

It doesn't seem to matter what it is you push in. A man who can push a lot of weight is thought of as manly. A man whose especially pushy (and successful) in business ventures is thought of as being "the man". Even our physiology mirrors this. Ignoring the rare exceptions, men have penises, and what do you do with a penis? You push it into a vagina. What do women do with their vaginas? They pull penises inward (sometimes they push out babies, but for the most part they're pulling =3)

We can extend this. Masculinity is aggressive, femininity is passive. Masculinity is dominant, femininity is submissive. So it can be said that being a man is to be dominating. Dominating over what? It doesn't really matter. Dominant over the land by cultivating it to our will, dominating our own bodies and mind by training our willpower, sometimes it means pushing invaders away from your territory in order to protect and preserve, etc.

In short, being a man is to exercise masculinity. That's not to say a man must always behave in a masculine way, after all, inside the yang half, there's a secret yin dot, but for the most part men are masculine and women are feminine.

Roy said the following; "take action rather than ponder." << this line has a much greater significance than I think a lot of you give it credit for. When you act, you are pushing. You are imposing your will on the external in some way (let's say, building a structure of some kind). This is an attempt at dominating your situation. To ponder is to, at least for the time being, submit to the way things are. You are pulling yourself inward rather than projecting your will outward, You are acting out of femininity.

The words "dominant" and "submissive" have a lot of negative baggage tied to them, but there's nothing wrong with being either one. They're complimentary and an unavoidable part of our lives. Whenever you act on something, you are imposing your will on it, and it is submitting to that will (unless you fail).

I will also agree with Roy that American society is thoroughly feminine at this point. The U.S. is a nation of consumers, not producers (at least not nearly as much as it once was). We pull goods in, rather than projecting them out. Oddly enough, our collective ideologies have mirrored this and now feminine values have gained a lot of ground and power in the U.S.

"Men seek women"

I think some of you have taken this too literally. This is basically the same as saying "the dominant seeks the submissive" or "The masculine seeks the feminine", it just so happens that men are typically masculine and women are typically feminine, so it's a fair statement even if there are some exceptions because in all cases, the driving forces are the same.

I'll end by saying men and women are not equal. They're incomparably different. That's all for now.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 7:01:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think. That you believe women are inherently submissive is your attempt to justify a collective theft of autonomy from them. Nothing is right and nothing wrong, but there are things that disrupt one's being, and things that do not. If you're going to appeal to the natural state of things, then you're wrong in thinking that feminine submission is the stasis - to submit is to give up autonomy. This is a disruption of woman nature as it is a disruption of human nature.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
RyuuKyuzo
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5/30/2013 7:03:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:01:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think. That you believe women are inherently submissive is your attempt to justify a collective theft of autonomy from them. Nothing is right and nothing wrong, but there are things that disrupt one's being, and things that do not. If you're going to appeal to the natural state of things, then you're wrong in thinking that feminine submission is the stasis - to submit is to give up autonomy. This is a disruption of woman nature as it is a disruption of human nature.

This is your definition. It has nothing to do with what I sad.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/30/2013 7:08:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:03:29 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 5/30/2013 7:01:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think. That you believe women are inherently submissive is your attempt to justify a collective theft of autonomy from them. Nothing is right and nothing wrong, but there are things that disrupt one's being, and things that do not. If you're going to appeal to the natural state of things, then you're wrong in thinking that feminine submission is the stasis - to submit is to give up autonomy. This is a disruption of woman nature as it is a disruption of human nature.

This is your definition. It has nothing to do with what I sad.

You: "Masculinity is aggressive, femininity is passive. Masculinity is dominant, femininity is submissive. "

Me: "The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think... This is a disruption of woman nature as it is a disruption of human nature"

I'm not seeing how this isn't a direct response that has everything to do with what you said.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
RyuuKyuzo
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5/30/2013 7:17:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Me: "To ponder is to... act out of femininity."

You: "The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think"

I've outlined thinking as submission and acting as domination. If you're saying feminine = unable to think, your definition is the opposite of mine.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/30/2013 7:23:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Someone who has slain a man with his bare hands before the age of ten and partook in his blood as an offering to the sky-Lords under the third full moon of the year.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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5/30/2013 7:28:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:17:47 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Me: "To ponder is to... act out of femininity."

You: "The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think"

I've outlined thinking as submission and acting as domination. If you're saying feminine = unable to think, your definition is the opposite of mine.

You guys should debate about this.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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5/30/2013 7:34:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/30/2013 7:28:39 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 5/30/2013 7:17:47 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Me: "To ponder is to... act out of femininity."

You: "The only creature with a submissive nature is that which lacks the power to think"

I've outlined thinking as submission and acting as domination. If you're saying feminine = unable to think, your definition is the opposite of mine.

You guys should debate about this.

I've challenged ike enough times to know he almost certainly won't be interested in an actual debate, but I'd be down like a frown nonetheless.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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5/30/2013 7:36:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Using the word "man" when referring to someone with "masculine" characteristics is misleading. Everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with gender.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush