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Karma

toolpot462
Posts: 289
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6/8/2013 4:07:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) recently went on a rampage of sorts. SWIM was somewhat manic and felt like "raising hell". So naturally, SWIM picked up a bunch of friends. SWIM was just planning on buying some spice and smoking with them, but there were complications. The local head shop had stopped selling spice. So, one of SWIM's friends told him he had a friend who was going to sell an ipod and suggested they pick her up and take a 50 mile trip to the closest head shop. When SWIM picked her up, she said she had stolen a credit card. SWIM and his friend talked it over and decided they didn't want to use it, but she could if she wanted.

So SWIM and company made this trip and sold the ipod, which turned out to be stolen. SWIM and co. received $100 for it. They used that money to get 15 grams of spice, and split the spice among themselves.

Somewhere along the line, SWIM was convinced to use the stolen credit card. SWIM and co. used it to get fast food, cigarettes, and gas. They spent nearly $100 with it. SWIM figured he had plausible deniability in the event of getting caught.

So SWIM enjoyed the fruits of a stolen ipod and stolen money. What SWIM found odd about this is that he himself was robbed of $100 and an ipod. Now SWIM feels like he has done this to himself.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What's the purpose behind this thread?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
toolpot462
Posts: 289
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6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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6/8/2013 5:30:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?

And how does that came to relate to Karma? Or are you wondering why you retribution has't arrived?

If that's the case I would say it's already took place. Not enough to make you feel shame but enough to make you doubt, hasn't it?

The more traditional Buddhist will said it will take place when your merit is used up and run dry, as when it had all been used for your good time - good luck, achievement etc.

The even more traditional, with strong element of animism will said it would take place in afterlife or perhaps you your next life, as in you will born an animal or deformed in your next reincarnation.
toolpot462
Posts: 289
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6/8/2013 5:39:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:30:36 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?

And how does that came to relate to Karma? Or are you wondering why you retribution has't arrived?

If that's the case I would say it's already took place. Not enough to make you feel shame but enough to make you doubt, hasn't it?

The more traditional Buddhist will said it will take place when your merit is used up and run dry, as when it had all been used for your good time - good luck, achievement etc.

The even more traditional, with strong element of animism will said it would take place in afterlife or perhaps you your next life, as in you will born an animal or deformed in your next reincarnation.

This isn't purely about karma. The bit about karma was how I did the same things that were done to me. I just thought it was coincidental.

This is mostly about ethics. Is what I did wrong and why? Do consequences dictate one's course of action? I don't feel bad about what I did. Ought I?
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons.
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason.
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices, son.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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6/8/2013 8:21:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Whatever you can get away with. That moral compass of yours is just another way of controlling your behavior in the absence of immediate discipline, like police. You can't physically control the population 100% of the time, so you have to do your best to establish an emotional commitment on the part of those you're controlling to treat certain activities, e.g., theft, as unconscionable. In the strict meta-ethical sense, we have little reason to believe that there exists in the world anything like positive moral truth, which is to say, it is unlikely that there are definite rights and wrongs. If you think of society as a continuous omnidirectional flow of power, you'll find people content themselves with trying both to exert their influence and to avoid, to the maximum extent they are able, themselves being influenced. On this view, the question of theft is really only a question of how well you can control your world, and how willing you are to put it to use in that way. If you really feel too badly about stealing or using someone else's money, you obviously aren't obligated to do so; contrastingly, if you play it out like a competition, then you may end up in a situation where you're trying to get away with something, and someone else is trying to stop you. It is at that moment not a question of ethics, but both of how much risk you're willing to take and how cunning (or lucky) you are.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/8/2013 11:22:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:39:02 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:30:36 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?

And how does that came to relate to Karma? Or are you wondering why you retribution has't arrived?

If that's the case I would say it's already took place. Not enough to make you feel shame but enough to make you doubt, hasn't it?

The more traditional Buddhist will said it will take place when your merit is used up and run dry, as when it had all been used for your good time - good luck, achievement etc.

The even more traditional, with strong element of animism will said it would take place in afterlife or perhaps you your next life, as in you will born an animal or deformed in your next reincarnation.

This isn't purely about karma. The bit about karma was how I did the same things that were done to me. I just thought it was coincidental.

This is mostly about ethics. Is what I did wrong and why? Do consequences dictate one's course of action? I don't feel bad about what I did. Ought I?

If you don't feel bad about what you did, it doesn't matter. Most people don't want their stuff taken, so you will be dealt with if you get caught whether you feel bad or not. I got into fights at school, I didn't feel bad about it. However, most people don't want to live in a violent society. Even though I didn't feel bad, I was still dealt with.

Basically, it doesn't matter how you feel, it matters how most of society feels. If you think rape is fine, but most of us don't, then you will get in trouble if you do it. If you don't feel bad about it? Too bad. Doesn't matter. That's not the society most of us want to live in.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/8/2013 11:25:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 5:39:02 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 5:30:36 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?

And how does that came to relate to Karma? Or are you wondering why you retribution has't arrived?

If that's the case I would say it's already took place. Not enough to make you feel shame but enough to make you doubt, hasn't it?

The more traditional Buddhist will said it will take place when your merit is used up and run dry, as when it had all been used for your good time - good luck, achievement etc.

The even more traditional, with strong element of animism will said it would take place in afterlife or perhaps you your next life, as in you will born an animal or deformed in your next reincarnation.

This isn't purely about karma. The bit about karma was how I did the same things that were done to me. I just thought it was coincidental.

This is mostly about ethics. Is what I did wrong and why? Do consequences dictate one's course of action? I don't feel bad about what I did. Ought I?

Also, if the only reason you don't do bad things is because of consequence, then maybe there is something messed up in your brain? I don't rape women because I'm afraid I'll get caught, I don't do it because I have sympathy and I couldn't put a poor woman through that even if I never will get caught.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/8/2013 6:09:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Life is Absurd. Accepting the absurdity of everything around us is one step, a necessary experience: it should not become a dead end. It arouses in us a revolt that can be beautiful.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/9/2013 5:25:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 4:27:41 AM, toolpot462 wrote:
At 6/8/2013 4:18:21 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
What's the purpose behind this thread?

That the idea of me doing bad things without suffering consequences has shaken my view of ethics. I have stolen and been stolen from. I feel no shame or sorrow. Am I a "bad" person for stealing? Why shouldn't I allow others to steal for me and reap the benefits? Because it's "wrong"? What does that even mean?

If you are simply missing a fundamental human quality, I doubt trying to explain it to you will change anything.

Maybe you can try to fit in to society by "faking it", if you try to live your life without any human heads in your freezer then maybe nobody will ever know.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 8:08:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It increases human suffering, so you ought to not do it.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/9/2013 4:28:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Karma exists through guilt and consequence.

If you don't feel guilt for selling someone else's credit card and ipod without trying to get it back to them, then you are unsympathetic. And, in my opinion, you are already worse off by being an unsympathetic person.

But karma, in a magical sense, does not exist. Bad comes to those who do good and good comes to those who do bad, all the time. The world is not fair. It is up to people to make it fair. Which you failed to do in this instance.

And, karma, in a Buddhist sense, has nothing to do with the pop culture sense. It's meant to say that if you do bad in this life, you'll be reincarnated as a lower lifeform in the next one.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/9/2013 5:06:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 4:28:38 PM, FREEDO wrote:

And, karma, in a Buddhist sense, has nothing to do with the pop culture sense. It's meant to say that if you do bad in this life, you'll be reincarnated as a lower lifeform in the next one.

What do we get reincarnated as if we do good?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/9/2013 5:10:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 5:06:08 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 6/9/2013 4:28:38 PM, FREEDO wrote:

And, karma, in a Buddhist sense, has nothing to do with the pop culture sense. It's meant to say that if you do bad in this life, you'll be reincarnated as a lower lifeform in the next one.

What do we get reincarnated as if we do good?

I don't know, it's not my belief. Stay human?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord