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Which has a greater ability to achieve...

AlbinoBunny
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7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/6/2013 2:42:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

An omnipotent being can, by definition, achieve any logical goals he wishes to achieve. A non-omnipotent being can only achieve some of his logical goals.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
AlbinoBunny
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7/6/2013 2:50:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:42:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

An omnipotent being can, by definition, achieve any logical goals he wishes to achieve. A non-omnipotent being can only achieve some of his logical goals.

But what if it doesn't know how to?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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AlbinoBunny
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7/6/2013 2:51:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wait, I may be talking rubbish again.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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phantom
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7/6/2013 2:59:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:50:56 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:42:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

An omnipotent being can, by definition, achieve any logical goals he wishes to achieve. A non-omnipotent being can only achieve some of his logical goals.

But what if it doesn't know how to?

It can by definition. If knowledge is necessary for it to be able to do it, then he has the knowledge, otherwise he wouldn't be omnipotent. Saying "what if he didn't know how" is like saying "what if he didn't posses the capability of doing it" but then he wouldn't be omnipotent.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
AlbinoBunny
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7/6/2013 3:50:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:59:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:50:56 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:42:51 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

An omnipotent being can, by definition, achieve any logical goals he wishes to achieve. A non-omnipotent being can only achieve some of his logical goals.

But what if it doesn't know how to?

It can by definition. If knowledge is necessary for it to be able to do it, then he has the knowledge, otherwise he wouldn't be omnipotent. Saying "what if he didn't know how" is like saying "what if he didn't posses the capability of doing it" but then he wouldn't be omnipotent.

It's more like if an omnipotent being had the will to do something, it could. It ignores all the common obstacles everyone else does, so it doesn't require intelligence to navigate and overcome them.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

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AlbinoBunny
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7/6/2013 3:50:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
But an omnipotent being could still be hoodwinked.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/6/2013 4:30:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 3:50:53 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
But an omnipotent being could still be hoodwinked.

But you said they're intelligent. You gave someone intelligence and power. That's a good combo.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/6/2013 5:36:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

The Fool:
Being just means existing. What"s an intelligent existing?
What is "IT" that is Existing? An existing existing. LOL
<(8J)

What you do even mean by intelligent in this sense?
Please explain? Without projecting yourself. On to your creation.
Isn't that a Kind of power? How can It be omnipotent AND Intelligent? How can you add an ability to all ability? Power is Just Potentially Thus Omni-potent. So you have created for yourself a Possible Existing. "In TERMS" But Short of "actually" being anything. One Big Perhaps or little perhaps. Out of Nothing. Which = 0 A possibly out of nothing Thus Impossible. False and non-existing. Aww and thats all it was.

And again what IS IT? What is the Thing that that you are referring to with the Word/Symbols Existing. Or be-ing. In nothingness, Notness.

If there is anything else but "the thing you don"t actually say " could never be all powerful. As anything that existed to be acted on with power would be something actual in its own right and Thus More then Mere "Perhaps" out of nothing.
What is even "Perhaps" out of nothing? Nonsense.
Goals? It can"t have goal only sentient beings have Desires and thus goals. To Desire is to WANT SOMETHING YOU LACK. And so what you say could never be true. And thus you succumb.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/6/2013 6:31:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

Omnipotent.He could make himself all the other qualities.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/6/2013 7:00:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 6:31:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/6/2013 2:32:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
... its goals?

An omnipotent and intelligent being, or an omniscient and powerful being?

Omnipotent.He could make himself all the other qualities.

Where does the "himself" Part come into existence?

From what could "IT" Make Itself Things From, Quality is the "Sort of thing" that something is. That is "Kind of things." If it changed qualities, It would change the "Kind of Thing, it is". Thus seizing to be itself.

For if is A then Its A , If it becomes Not A It defeats itself and thus Succumbs, again.

Or are you not familiar with basic logic.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL