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What Has The Most Value In Societies?

pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

Share what you learn, and learn from what others have shared. We have been doing it for centuries now, on miniscule levels compared to what is offered to us today.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/17/2013 10:04:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Honestly, the value of information is going down day by day with the advancement and proliferation of communications technology. Hopefully, one day, information will be essentially free.

Anyway, I think the most basic necessities of life are the most valuable things - eg, pure water and food, etc.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/17/2013 10:08:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/17/2013 10:04:38 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Honestly, the value of information is going down day by day with the advancement and proliferation of communications technology. Hopefully, one day, information will be essentially free.

Anyway, I think the most basic necessities of life are the most valuable things - eg, pure water and food, etc.

The right information would almost always guarantee those things wouldn't it?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/17/2013 10:09:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/17/2013 10:05:35 PM, YYW wrote:
That which people want to buy more than other things which people want to buy.

http://images.wikia.com...
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/17/2013 10:10:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/17/2013 10:05:35 PM, YYW wrote:
That which people want to buy more than other things which people want to buy.

Yea, but having the information of what they want, and how to get it has the most value don't it?
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/17/2013 10:13:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/17/2013 10:09:24 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/17/2013 10:05:35 PM, YYW wrote:
That which people want to buy more than other things which people want to buy.

http://images.wikia.com...

http://i.huffpost.com...
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/18/2013 1:31:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Humanity!

Why? Because we insist it does!

Humans are great for lots of things.

You can talk to them.

You can date them.

You can make them slaves.

You can mate with them.

You can kill them.

You can eat them.

You can manipulate them.

but most importantly YOU can envy their happiness.

And when you see that they have things that you don't (money, women, family, slaves), and they appear to be happier than you, you put value into those things.

Similarly, when someone seems miserable, and YOU have certain things that they don't, you put value on the things they lack.

We assert value without first-hand knowledge whether or not those things actually make one happier or not.

So, what makes people happy?
Food, Shelter, Sex, Family, Devoted Work, and consequentially the mediums they can obtain that allow them to attain and utilize those things.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/18/2013 11:13:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 1:31:53 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Humanity!

Why? Because we insist it does!

Humans are great for lots of things.

You can talk to them.

You can date them.

You can make them slaves.

You can mate with them.

You can kill them.

You can eat them.

You can manipulate them.



but most importantly YOU can envy their happiness.

And when you see that they have things that you don't (money, women, family, slaves), and they appear to be happier than you, you put value into those things.

Similarly, when someone seems miserable, and YOU have certain things that they don't, you put value on the things they lack.

We assert value without first-hand knowledge whether or not those things actually make one happier or not.

So, what makes people happy?
Food, Shelter, Sex, Family, Devoted Work, and consequentially the mediums they can obtain that allow them to attain and utilize those things.

I hope you never become a leader of a nation...
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 11:13:36 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:31:53 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Humanity!

Why? Because we insist it does!

Humans are great for lots of things.

You can talk to them.

You can date them.

You can make them slaves.

You can mate with them.

You can kill them.

You can eat them.

You can manipulate them.



but most importantly YOU can envy their happiness.

And when you see that they have things that you don't (money, women, family, slaves), and they appear to be happier than you, you put value into those things.

Similarly, when someone seems miserable, and YOU have certain things that they don't, you put value on the things they lack.

We assert value without first-hand knowledge whether or not those things actually make one happier or not.

So, what makes people happy?
Food, Shelter, Sex, Family, Devoted Work, and consequentially the mediums they can obtain that allow them to attain and utilize those things.

I hope you never become a leader of a nation...

AND why not?

With me, all women will be slaves.
We will all live in tasteful shanties.
We can all work 9 hours a day, 6 days a week.
We can all have shanty-town block parties on the 7th day, in reverence to Me.
We can have the best BBQ meat at these parties.
We can also have guest speakers who talk about achieving a fulfilled life, and by guest speakers I mean Me.

Oh and most importantly we will kill all dissenters and use their bodies for shanty insulation, dam sealing, and in the winter as children's sleds.

I can't see a downside.
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/18/2013 1:18:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I can't see a downside.

Perhaps this is because the downside side is that side's upside when one is upside down.
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/18/2013 1:31:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 1:18:31 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I can't see a downside.

Perhaps this is because the downside side is that side's upside when one is upside down.

Or perhaps the downside's wayside blind-sided the upside.

But on a serious note, I really do think that Societies value most the human beings that they love.

I don't think that is an unreasonable belief either. What's the most important thing to a person besides themselves? Family & Friends.

If you believe differently say so, I would like to hear.
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/18/2013 1:46:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 1:31:15 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:18:31 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I can't see a downside.
Perhaps this is because the downside side is that side's upside when one is upside down.

Or perhaps the downside's wayside blind-sided the upside.
But on a serious note, I really do think that Societies value most the human beings that they love. I don't think that is an unreasonable belief either. What's the most important thing to a person besides themselves? Family & Friends.
If you believe differently say so, I would like to hear.

Well, to love something is to value that thing, so perhaps saying, "we value that which we love," is a bit of a truism. In any case, even if I do believe differently from this, I don't think I believe contrarily to this.
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/18/2013 2:06:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 1:46:28 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:31:15 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:18:31 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I can't see a downside.
Perhaps this is because the downside side is that side's upside when one is upside down.

Or perhaps the downside's wayside blind-sided the upside.
But on a serious note, I really do think that Societies value most the human beings that they love. I don't think that is an unreasonable belief either. What's the most important thing to a person besides themselves? Family & Friends.
If you believe differently say so, I would like to hear.

Well, to love something is to value that thing, so perhaps saying, "we value that which we love," is a bit of a truism. In any case, even if I do believe differently from this, I don't think I believe contrarily to this.

Yes, I see your point.

I would add that we don't love everything that we value.

Love for another Human being is completely different than love for a certain food or commodity.

People will sacrifice their own lives in order to save a loved one's.

People don't jump in front of a moving train to prevent their favorite and most expensive necklace from being smashed to bits.

I'd say that is a clear demonstration of difference in value in favor of Humanity.
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/18/2013 2:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 2:06:57 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:46:28 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:31:15 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:18:31 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 7/18/2013 1:10:35 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I can't see a downside.
Perhaps this is because the downside side is that side's upside when one is upside down.

Or perhaps the downside's wayside blind-sided the upside.
But on a serious note, I really do think that Societies value most the human beings that they love. I don't think that is an unreasonable belief either. What's the most important thing to a person besides themselves? Family & Friends.
If you believe differently say so, I would like to hear.

Well, to love something is to value that thing, so perhaps saying, "we value that which we love," is a bit of a truism. In any case, even if I do believe differently from this, I don't think I believe contrarily to this.

Yes, I see your point.
I would add that we don't love everything that we value.
Love for another Human being is completely different than love for a certain food or commodity.
People will sacrifice their own lives in order to save a loved one's.
People don't jump in front of a moving train to prevent their favorite and most expensive necklace from being smashed to bits.
I'd say that is a clear demonstration of difference in value in favor of Humanity.

I recognize and appreciate your distinction between end-in-itself valuation and utility-calculus valuations. To be an end-in-itself is to be valuationally closed: we cannot analytically derive the value of an end-in-itself from any antecedent or consequent independent quality. I think one could argue that utility-calculus values are different in this respect, as you suggest.
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
Df0512
Posts: 966
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7/18/2013 3:01:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM, pozessed wrote:
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

Share what you learn, and learn from what others have shared. We have been doing it for centuries now, on miniscule levels compared to what is offered to us today.

Why the children of course. Not to sound corny but you know kids are of the most value. IMHO
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/18/2013 7:16:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 3:01:23 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM, pozessed wrote:
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

Share what you learn, and learn from what others have shared. We have been doing it for centuries now, on miniscule levels compared to what is offered to us today.

Why the children of course. Not to sound corny but you know kids are of the most value. IMHO

Kids are only as valuable as the information that molds them. That's a bit harsh but probably true.
Df0512
Posts: 966
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7/18/2013 7:34:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 7:16:06 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 7/18/2013 3:01:23 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM, pozessed wrote:
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

Share what you learn, and learn from what others have shared. We have been doing it for centuries now, on miniscule levels compared to what is offered to us today.

Why the children of course. Not to sound corny but you know kids are of the most value. IMHO

Kids are only as valuable as the information that molds them. That's a bit harsh but probably true.

Yea a lil harsh lol but true. Guess that just means the children we mold for the better are the most value to society.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/18/2013 8:27:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 7:34:04 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/18/2013 7:16:06 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 7/18/2013 3:01:23 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM, pozessed wrote:
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

The Fool: Unfortunately it also exponentially increases the rate of False Information. I don't even know if it is positively better,.

Is it better to have less information which is clear and distinct or to be bombarded with allot of confusing and conflicting information?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/18/2013 9:40:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 8:27:28 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/18/2013 7:34:04 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/18/2013 7:16:06 PM, pozessed wrote:
At 7/18/2013 3:01:23 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 7/17/2013 7:17:52 PM, pozessed wrote:
I used to think precious metals and gems were the source of wealth.
Then I came to the conclusion that energy from people, machines, and nature were more valuable than monetary gain.
Now I think I believe that information is the most precious source of wealth.

With the technology we have today, and as fast as information can be dispersed, if my sentiments are true; we are all as rich as we apply ourselves to be.

The Fool: Unfortunately it also exponentially increases the rate of False Information. I don't even know if it is positively better,.

False information has been present throughout the evolution of communication.
We can communicate at an exponential rate compared to before the internet, so of course misinformation will rise exponentially as well.

Is it better to have less information which is clear and distinct or to be bombarded with allot of confusing and conflicting information?

How would we get to factually clear and distinct information if it wasn't approved and agreed upon by people expressing their mutual experiences?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/18/2013 11:51:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Food production and sanitation are the most important things in society.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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7/19/2013 2:26:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 11:51:08 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Food production and sanitation are the most important things in society.

You need the information of how to gather it. You also need the energy to obtain it.