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Do freedom and rights exist in today's world?

Picard
Posts: 54
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7/19/2013 5:46:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am talking about European countries, the USA and many other countries that claim that their citizens have freedom and rights. I am not a cynical person, but I find it difficult to believe that we are actually free.

I do not perceive rights to exist as we think of them, the rights we have, to life, to freedom, to security ect. are not actually rights as they can be taken away at the discretion of the state.

Freedom can also be taken by the state, being imprisoned for example (Don't misunderstand, imprisonment is a necessary part of society and is justified) but it is a prime example that our rights and freedom only exist so long as we conform to what the state wants us to be.

"They feared me so much, they had to lock me away for eternity. And when they did that, they were saying that the individual's rights will be protected only so long as they don't conflict with the state. Nothing is so dangerous to a society." - Quinn
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/19/2013 7:11:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Of course we are free, and of course we have rights. We can do whatever we want! Yesterday I decided to go to Wild Water kingdom, and that was awesome! I did not see any signs of non-freedom. I went to the UK last year, no problem. I'm free to travel the world. I am free to go the the store and food. I am so drunk with freedom, I am going to run around the block right now I am so free!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/19/2013 7:12:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Only if you mess up and break serious laws are you not free. However, that is not a bad thing. Horrible criminals should not be free.
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/22/2013 1:32:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 7:11:06 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Of course we are free, and of course we have rights. We can do whatever we want! Yesterday I decided to go to Wild Water kingdom, and that was awesome! I did not see any signs of non-freedom. I went to the UK last year, no problem. I'm free to travel the world. I am free to go the the store and food. I am so drunk with freedom, I am going to run around the block right now I am so free!

But you cannot do whatever you want, you can only do what the state says you may do. Do you want to do drugs? Even if you are not selling them to others, you just wish to do them for yourself, you are not allowed without prior permission. Do you want to pay tax on your wages? You don't have a choice! You must contribute to the state and to not to is punished.

There are many things that the state dictates and you can do nothing about.

Also, while I agree people should be imprisioned for committing atrocities, this is an example of how, if you do not conform to the states rules then your human rights will be withdrawn.

You have the illusion of freedom, but when you think about it, how free are you really??
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/22/2013 1:32:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 7:11:06 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Of course we are free, and of course we have rights. We can do whatever we want! Yesterday I decided to go to Wild Water kingdom, and that was awesome! I did not see any signs of non-freedom. I went to the UK last year, no problem. I'm free to travel the world. I am free to go the the store and food. I am so drunk with freedom, I am going to run around the block right now I am so free!

But you cannot do whatever you want, you can only do what the state says you may do. Do you want to do drugs? Even if you are not selling them to others, you just wish to do them for yourself, you are not allowed without prior permission. Do you want to pay tax on your wages? You don't have a choice! You must contribute to the state and to not to is punished.

There are many things that the state dictates and you can do nothing about.

Also, while I agree people should be imprisioned for committing atrocities, this is an example of how, if you do not conform to the states rules then your human rights will be withdrawn.

You have the illusion of freedom, but when you think about it, how free are you really?
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/22/2013 1:35:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/19/2013 7:12:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Only if you mess up and break serious laws are you not free. However, that is not a bad thing. Horrible criminals should not be free.

So if someone does not conform to what you (Or the state) believes to be right then they have no rights and no freedom?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
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7/22/2013 2:06:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.

I agree! I say it all the time to teenagers I know who are feeling depressed and down because of their situation.

I think it helps.. lol.. or maybe not.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/22/2013 2:09:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 2:06:11 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.

I agree! I say it all the time to teenagers I know who are feeling depressed and down because of their situation.

I think it helps.. lol.. or maybe not.

Lol, probably not, because realistically we adapt and accept societal (and legal) rules, for better or worse.

But it might give some comfort to know that you always are completely free, and any real restriction comes from yourself.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Picard
Posts: 54
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7/23/2013 11:08:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 2:09:27 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:06:11 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.

I agree! I say it all the time to teenagers I know who are feeling depressed and down because of their situation.

I think it helps.. lol.. or maybe not.

Lol, probably not, because realistically we adapt and accept societal (and legal) rules, for better or worse.

But it might give some comfort to know that you always are completely free, and any real restriction comes from yourself.

Always completely free? It's a nice idea, but do you honestly believe it exists?
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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7/23/2013 11:45:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 11:08:20 AM, Picard wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:09:27 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:06:11 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.

I agree! I say it all the time to teenagers I know who are feeling depressed and down because of their situation.

I think it helps.. lol.. or maybe not.

Lol, probably not, because realistically we adapt and accept societal (and legal) rules, for better or worse.

But it might give some comfort to know that you always are completely free, and any real restriction comes from yourself.

Always completely free? It's a nice idea, but do you honestly believe it exists?

We're free to, aren't we? Or do you deny us that freedom?
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/23/2013 6:55:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/23/2013 11:08:20 AM, Picard wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:09:27 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:06:11 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
At 7/22/2013 2:03:48 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
The condition of man is one of ultimate freedom. Regardless of circumstances, a person always has complete freedom.

I agree! I say it all the time to teenagers I know who are feeling depressed and down because of their situation.

I think it helps.. lol.. or maybe not.

Lol, probably not, because realistically we adapt and accept societal (and legal) rules, for better or worse.

But it might give some comfort to know that you always are completely free, and any real restriction comes from yourself.

Always completely free? It's a nice idea, but do you honestly believe it exists?

Of course.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/23/2013 11:18:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 1:32:33 PM, Picard wrote:
At 7/19/2013 7:11:06 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Of course we are free, and of course we have rights. We can do whatever we want! Yesterday I decided to go to Wild Water kingdom, and that was awesome! I did not see any signs of non-freedom. I went to the UK last year, no problem. I'm free to travel the world. I am free to go the the store and food. I am so drunk with freedom, I am going to run around the block right now I am so free!

But you cannot do whatever you want, you can only do what the state says you may do.

That's not true. I do things the government doesn't want me to do anyway.

Do you want to do drugs?

I smoke marijuana everyday. I would probably get a ticket if I got busted with a joint..Such a slave!

Even if you are not selling them to others, you just wish to do them for yourself, you are not allowed without prior permission.

I do it anyway.

Do you want to pay tax on your wages?

No, but it helps go to social programs, roads, schools ect...

You don't have a choice!

Just because we are not 100% free, doesn't mean we aren't free. We have a lot of freedom.

You must contribute to the state and to not to is punished.

You can go on welfare and make the government give you money.


There are many things that the state dictates and you can do nothing about.

Well, I live in Canada, so I don't know about all this "state" business. Either way, I am free because there is not a thing that I want to do that I cannot.


Also, while I agree people should be imprisioned for committing atrocities, this is an example of how, if you do not conform to the states rules then your human rights will be withdrawn.

It's not just about conforming to the government, but conforming to decency itself.


You have the illusion of freedom, but when you think about it, how free are you really??

No illusion, I have reasonable freedom, even if I can't do EVERYTHING.