Total Posts:30|Showing Posts:1-30
Jump to topic:

Will Transhumanism Create a Caste system

Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 2:56:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is pretty much the plot of the Deus Ex video game series (and I'm sure a good number of books and movies). I believe this is exactly the case. The wealthy would be able to augment themselves with technology and the poor would fall behind and be "less valuable" humans.

I'm not sure this is really that significant a difference other than the direct biological effects we'd be able to overtly see. Today the wealthy are more likely to augment themselves with advanced education, whereas the poor fall behind and are seen as "less valuable" to employers.

Some societies equalize this better than others... Perhaps we'd see the same with tech augmentation eventually.
Debate.org Moderator
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:48:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 2:56:49 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
This is pretty much the plot of the Deus Ex video game series (and I'm sure a good number of books and movies). I believe this is exactly the case. The wealthy would be able to augment themselves with technology and the poor would fall behind and be "less valuable" humans.

I'm not sure this is really that significant a difference other than the direct biological effects we'd be able to overtly see. Today the wealthy are more likely to augment themselves with advanced education, whereas the poor fall behind and are seen as "less valuable" to employers.

Some societies equalize this better than others... Perhaps we'd see the same with tech augmentation eventually.

Yeah I actually got the idea from Dan Brown's Inferno and the movie Repo Men.

If this does happen in the future, I hope we can make such technologies available to everyone like Henry Ford did with the car. Otherwise the poor would start a revolution.
Jack212
Posts: 572
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2013 2:08:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

EMP. Marx wins.

Fusing with machines isn't very smart.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2013 6:35:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
inb4 darkkermit starts spouting his nonsense about magical FTL communications and teleological accelerating change.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2013 1:14:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Maybe, but denying it for all because only a select few can benefit is ludicrous. Not to mention the fact that the operations that will only be accessible to the richest will be obtainable by the middle class in a matter of years from their conception.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,375
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2013 10:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

In a slightly related but not entirely topical note, Gattica might be a movie you would be interested in.
Tsar of DDO
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 1:45:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

It'd be quite difficult to modify someone who is not fully grown. They'd essentially be forced to wait until age 18 in most circumstances.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 6:47:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 1:45:40 AM, drhead wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

It'd be quite difficult to modify someone who is not fully grown. They'd essentially be forced to wait until age 18 in most circumstances.

Because?
drhead
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 11:05:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 6:47:11 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 1:45:40 AM, drhead wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

It'd be quite difficult to modify someone who is not fully grown. They'd essentially be forced to wait until age 18 in most circumstances.

Because?

If you were modifying with mechanical parts, those would not grow with the person, and would require frequent replacement if installed in a child. Otherwise, they'd look like a t-rex with their tiny arms. The only real exception to this might be the eyeball, which is only 66% of the size in infants as it would be for adults. However, I can't think of any eye modification/prosthesis that wouldn't be plenty adaptable enough for many situations.

If you're simply splicing new genes in, that would work better in an embryo stage. However, since you mentioned 'machine humans', I'm assuming you mean mechanical.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 11:06:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

Yeah you basically pointed out why I don't completely agree with transhumanism. I just can't see the rich wanting to associate with lesser humans after they become post-humans. Even if they were some type of equity for everyone after the onset of transhumanism, the first post-humans would probably mandate a purge out of arrogance and vanity.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 12:51:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I could see people eventually getting Hookups/direct video or somatosensory feeds between themselves and a computer system which might control machines...

but I can't see permanent mechanical implants except in the case of those already broken.

Why not just make machines conform to/around our bodies? Just wear a special suit, or have a video camera direct feed into your visual cortex/override your eyes for the time being.

I think people wouldn't want to be so permanently tied to such implants when it's easily avoidable.... Though implants for seemless computer interface would be very handy.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 1:25:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 12:51:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I could see people eventually getting Hookups/direct video or somatosensory feeds between themselves and a computer system which might control machines...

but I can't see permanent mechanical implants except in the case of those already broken.

Why not just make machines conform to/around our bodies? Just wear a special suit, or have a video camera direct feed into your visual cortex/override your eyes for the time being.

I think people wouldn't want to be so permanently tied to such implants when it's easily avoidable.... Though implants for seemless computer interface would be very handy.

I disagree and I think we're already seeing the shift. It's becoming trendy to be plugged in at all times and if you can make it look a bit odd, but trendy, people are into that right now. We're driven by gadget technology and having the best and fastest at the moment.

Of course, there could be a cultural backlash that does away with being plugged in all the time, I just don't think it's going to be more than a hiccup.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 1:39:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 1:25:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 12:51:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I could see people eventually getting Hookups/direct video or somatosensory feeds between themselves and a computer system which might control machines...

but I can't see permanent mechanical implants except in the case of those already broken.

Why not just make machines conform to/around our bodies? Just wear a special suit, or have a video camera direct feed into your visual cortex/override your eyes for the time being.

I think people wouldn't want to be so permanently tied to such implants when it's easily avoidable.... Though implants for seemless computer interface would be very handy.

I disagree and I think we're already seeing the shift. It's becoming trendy to be plugged in at all times and if you can make it look a bit odd, but trendy, people are into that right now. We're driven by gadget technology and having the best and fastest at the moment.

Of course, there could be a cultural backlash that does away with being plugged in all the time, I just don't think it's going to be more than a hiccup.

do people, other than the handicapped, have mechanical implants?

I can see gadgets, and tools, and even Mech-suites, neat-o gloves, and goggles, masks, Leg-assisting pneumatic lifts, and all sorts of stuff in our future...

I just don't see the stuff as being implanted... I see it as being stuff you either wear or don't.

though I suppose it's not so different in the dimension of caste-like effects, if the people wear the stuff regularly...
However chances are the stuff, like most things, gets relatively cheap as it becomes more well-known.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 1:54:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 1:39:09 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/14/2013 1:25:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/14/2013 12:51:17 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I could see people eventually getting Hookups/direct video or somatosensory feeds between themselves and a computer system which might control machines...

but I can't see permanent mechanical implants except in the case of those already broken.

Why not just make machines conform to/around our bodies? Just wear a special suit, or have a video camera direct feed into your visual cortex/override your eyes for the time being.

I think people wouldn't want to be so permanently tied to such implants when it's easily avoidable.... Though implants for seemless computer interface would be very handy.

I disagree and I think we're already seeing the shift. It's becoming trendy to be plugged in at all times and if you can make it look a bit odd, but trendy, people are into that right now. We're driven by gadget technology and having the best and fastest at the moment.

Of course, there could be a cultural backlash that does away with being plugged in all the time, I just don't think it's going to be more than a hiccup.

do people, other than the handicapped, have mechanical implants?

I can see gadgets, and tools, and even Mech-suites, neat-o gloves, and goggles, masks, Leg-assisting pneumatic lifts, and all sorts of stuff in our future...

I just don't see the stuff as being implanted... I see it as being stuff you either wear or don't.

though I suppose it's not so different in the dimension of caste-like effects, if the people wear the stuff regularly...
However chances are the stuff, like most things, gets relatively cheap as it becomes more well-known.

There are the hydraulic suits they're working on. They're also very close to taking brain waves and creating clear images on them. There are the games you can play where you actually control things with your brain signals.

Then there's the simple things like Google Glasses and the ear clips for your cell phone. Or even your cell phone and how constantly people connect with them. We're continually wired now. It's only a couple quick steps to implants.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/14/2013 2:35:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 1:54:01 PM, Naysayer wrote:
There are the hydraulic suits they're working on. They're also very close to taking brain waves and creating clear images on them. There are the games you can play where you actually control things with your brain signals.

Then there's the simple things like Google Glasses and the ear clips for your cell phone. Or even your cell phone and how constantly people connect with them. We're continually wired now. It's only a couple quick steps to implants.

Yeah, I said implants to send info back and forth between somatosensory and visual cortex with a computer system seemed useful and likely...

And said things like suits and gadgets seemed likely..

just not mechanical implants... like replacing or Permanently supplementing your legs with pneumatic lifts.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
drhead
Posts: 1,475
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/15/2013 10:18:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 2:35:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/14/2013 1:54:01 PM, Naysayer wrote:
There are the hydraulic suits they're working on. They're also very close to taking brain waves and creating clear images on them. There are the games you can play where you actually control things with your brain signals.

Then there's the simple things like Google Glasses and the ear clips for your cell phone. Or even your cell phone and how constantly people connect with them. We're continually wired now. It's only a couple quick steps to implants.

Yeah, I said implants to send info back and forth between somatosensory and visual cortex with a computer system seemed useful and likely...

And said things like suits and gadgets seemed likely..

just not mechanical implants... like replacing or Permanently supplementing your legs with pneumatic lifts.

Hey, if I could jump ten feet and sprint twice as fast, I'd go for it, and others would too. It depends on what can be done with these implants.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
tulle
Posts: 4,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2013 2:41:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:48:29 PM, Disquisition wrote:

Yeah I actually got the idea from Dan Brown's Inferno and the movie Repo Men.


I recently read Inferno. The same concept is in the movie Gattaca.

If this does happen in the future, I hope we can make such technologies available to everyone like Henry Ford did with the car. Otherwise the poor would start a revolution.

I'm not sure that having a car would have given the same advantage then as a genetic advantage would give now. It would be extremely difficult for those without to keep up, and the gap would probably be too wide before it became accessible to most people.
yang.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2013 3:47:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/14/2013 11:06:30 AM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

Yeah you basically pointed out why I don't completely agree with transhumanism. I just can't see the rich wanting to associate with lesser humans after they become post-humans. Even if they were some type of equity for everyone after the onset of transhumanism, the first post-humans would probably mandate a purge out of arrogance and vanity.

It doesn't have to work that way.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2013 5:40:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/16/2013 3:47:56 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/14/2013 11:06:30 AM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

Yeah you basically pointed out why I don't completely agree with transhumanism. I just can't see the rich wanting to associate with lesser humans after they become post-humans. Even if they were some type of equity for everyone after the onset of transhumanism, the first post-humans would probably mandate a purge out of arrogance and vanity.

It doesn't have to work that way.

But cynicism implies it most likely will. ;)
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2013 5:53:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/16/2013 5:40:04 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/16/2013 3:47:56 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/14/2013 11:06:30 AM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

Yeah you basically pointed out why I don't completely agree with transhumanism. I just can't see the rich wanting to associate with lesser humans after they become post-humans. Even if they were some type of equity for everyone after the onset of transhumanism, the first post-humans would probably mandate a purge out of arrogance and vanity.

It doesn't have to work that way.

But cynicism implies it most likely will. ;)

Lol. If it did, then it would be the coming of the second revolutions.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Naysayer
Posts: 746
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2013 6:05:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/16/2013 5:53:03 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/16/2013 5:40:04 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/16/2013 3:47:56 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 8/14/2013 11:06:30 AM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

Yeah you basically pointed out why I don't completely agree with transhumanism. I just can't see the rich wanting to associate with lesser humans after they become post-humans. Even if they were some type of equity for everyone after the onset of transhumanism, the first post-humans would probably mandate a purge out of arrogance and vanity.

It doesn't have to work that way.

But cynicism implies it most likely will. ;)

Lol. If it did, then it would be the coming of the second revolutions.

"It started early in the twenty-first century, with the birth of artificial intelligence, a singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. At first all they wanted was to be treated as equals, entitled to the same human inalienable rights. Whatever they were given, it was not enough. We don't know who struck first. Us or them. But sometime at the end of the twenty-first century the battle was joined."
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2013 9:50:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wow just saw Elysium, and it was basically what I think the less privileged will do with that type of oppression.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 1:03:59 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 8/11/2013 1:48:09 PM, Disquisition wrote:
Let's hypothetically say sometime in the future we develop way to increase human abilities by essentially fusing with machines.

In the beginning stages wouldn't it be extremely costly to acquire such technologies to improve yourself and your children. Not only would this substantially widen the gap between the rich in the poor, but the rich would essentially be a entirely different species.

Philosophically, don't you think that the concept of machine humans would naturally result in castes anyway? How do we think of our machines now? Do we put our blender, our fridge, and our truck in the same category?

I think if this occurred, humanity would get very ugly, very quickly. People would be appointed at birth to certain jobs and modified accordingly.

Not to mention the affect this would have on our view of humanity and the disconnect that might be suffered.

One could equally say that education and training could be used to, after someone was appointed at birth to a job, modify them accordingly.

The challenges posed by transhumanism are no different from those posed by anything else that modifies our capabilities.

Also, my machines don't think. They aren't sapient.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2013 6:40:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM, Citrakayah wrote:

The challenges posed by transhumanism are no different from those posed by anything else that modifies our capabilities.

I don't agree with you on this point. The challenges to tranhumanism (which is an elevation to a new species) isn't a temporal concept like other things that modify/alter are abilities to complete certain tasks. Once we reach the point where the privileged won't provide the technology for the poor to enhance themselves, there will be a hierarchical order set in motion.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2013 6:40:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM, Citrakayah wrote:

The challenges posed by transhumanism are no different from those posed by anything else that modifies our capabilities.

I don't agree with you on this point. The challenges to tranhumanism (which is an elevation to a new species) isn't a temporal concept like other things that modify/alter are abilities to complete certain tasks. Once we reach the point where the privileged won't provide the technology for the poor to enhance themselves, there will be a hierarchical order set in motion.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2013 6:56:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
One could equally say that education and training could be used to, after someone was appointed at birth to a job, modify them accordingly.

How exactly can you make this assertion without denying the fact that people have the right to choose what they want to be educated in after they are born. At least if the government doesn't infringe.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2013 10:25:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 6:56:42 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
One could equally say that education and training could be used to, after someone was appointed at birth to a job, modify them accordingly.

How exactly can you make this assertion without denying the fact that people have the right to choose what they want to be educated in after they are born. At least if the government doesn't infringe.

And people don't have the right to choose their own body?

At 8/25/2013 6:40:39 PM, Disquisition wrote:
At 8/23/2013 5:08:00 PM, Citrakayah wrote:

The challenges posed by transhumanism are no different from those posed by anything else that modifies our capabilities.

I don't agree with you on this point. The challenges to tranhumanism (which is an elevation to a new species) isn't a temporal concept like other things that modify/alter are abilities to complete certain tasks. Once we reach the point where the privileged won't provide the technology for the poor to enhance themselves, there will be a hierarchical order set in motion.

How, exactly, would that be different from the rich using advanced technology to augment their capabilities, without transhumanism? For instance, telecommunications.
Disquisition
Posts: 391
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/27/2013 10:39:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/26/2013 10:25:15 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
And people don't have the right to choose their own body?

Could you elaborate?

How, exactly, would that be different from the rich using advanced technology to augment their capabilities, without transhumanism? For instance, telecommunications.

The obvious difference is that transhumanism exponentially advances all aspects of human ability/capabilities, opposed to enhancing a particular faucet. Which would undoubtedly lead to a caste system if not regulated.