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Communism is the way forward.

Picard
Posts: 54
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8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/13/2013 4:30:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.

Yeah, I got that. But my point is that his conclusion that money would be essentially irrelevant is ridiculous; resource scarcity would still exist, which would consequently lead to price discrimination.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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8/13/2013 10:22:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 4:30:15 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.

Yeah, I got that. But my point is that his conclusion that money would be essentially irrelevant is ridiculous; resource scarcity would still exist, which would consequently lead to price discrimination.

What if we farm space. As well as consolidated our living space in return for natural earthly resources? How limited would resources really be then?
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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8/13/2013 10:24:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 10:22:12 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:30:15 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.

Yeah, I got that. But my point is that his conclusion that money would be essentially irrelevant is ridiculous; resource scarcity would still exist, which would consequently lead to price discrimination.

What if we farm space. As well as consolidated our living space in return for natural earthly resources? How limited would resources really be then?

I'm also assuming that resources would be controlled by a democracy of citizens and not a dictation of a single entity.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/13/2013 1:59:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 10:22:12 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:30:15 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.

Yeah, I got that. But my point is that his conclusion that money would be essentially irrelevant is ridiculous; resource scarcity would still exist, which would consequently lead to price discrimination.

What if we farm space. As well as consolidated our living space in return for natural earthly resources? How limited would resources really be then?

Assuming a post labour society is enough of a hypothetical by itself.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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8/14/2013 2:05:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The post-labour society is an interesting idea, but I in fact think that this society will have advanced to where certain entities taking control of the resources and redistributing them will be impossible. People may not have money, but that is not what communism is. Communism is a certain entity or group obtaining some ill-defined 'means of production' by force. In a society where each person has enough resources and technology to maintain their life without labour, they will also have the means to protect their own property, and produce, without interference by authority, more than ever before. In short, communism means class warfare, inequality and control. A society advanced enough to not need labour will be much too civilised for these things to take place to the degree necessary for communism to be relevant. The only way people are going to share their possessions in a peaceful way, is if doing so voluntarily. For it to be voluntary, they must also have the option not to do so. This futuristic society can never be peaceful if some group can take an individual's possession against their will. This is what 'common ownership' implies.. it means something being done with something which an individual would otherwise own, which that individual does not want to happen. That is not the way forward, it is a move away from peace. A capitalist has confidence in humans' ability to voluntarily cooperate with each other peacefully. A communist has confidence in human's ability to use violent force on each other peacefully.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
TJTretman
Posts: 9
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8/14/2013 4:23:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Communism may be very humanitarian and radically egalitarian if applied correctly, but the reason Communism fails is because of Human ego, Greed, and corruption.
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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8/14/2013 8:22:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 10:22:12 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:30:15 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 4:18:55 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

Actually, he's talking about a post-labor society. Which is still distinct from communism, although I suppose it could be considered a form of it.

Yeah, I got that. But my point is that his conclusion that money would be essentially irrelevant is ridiculous; resource scarcity would still exist, which would consequently lead to price discrimination.

What if we farm space. As well as consolidated our living space in return for natural earthly resources? How limited would resources really be then?
People will still want more or less or different, will still want to punish or reward others. You can't avoid this without drastically changing the human psyche. The resources will be other things like popularity, influence, and non-fungible resources like romance and friendship. People want more than what they have because this is how we grow as a species, not everyone does, but some always will.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/14/2013 10:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

We can try to eradicate poverty without communism. The question is more about what system would best benefit individuals and society.
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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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8/15/2013 6:41:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

I'm getting tired of people saying that communism is ideal. It's not. It requires an almost complete suspension of individual rights and freedoms for the sake of the collective. It's a complete mob rule, and the minority views are not protected. Communism is far from ideal.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

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suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/15/2013 7:17:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

Actually, it is because of centrally planned economy and socialism. Dictatorship in the hand of an able mind can create prosperity (Caesar, Octavian, Japanese Empire etc.). Dictatorship in a foolish mind, who think they know thing better than the market will produce disastrous result as in case of Mao communism.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

No it is not. Actually it is not even a progress, it is often said, even by the people on the side of socialism that native Indian have been lived in a tribal communistic state until the western conquest.

Communism and Socialism is not a revolutionary concept it has been practice throughout the history of man both in tribal and some monastic societies. Communism is regressive not progressive political condition, people often been lazy first when the resource is abundance, only when they encountered or expected a threat so they will muster strength.

Communism is a state of laziness, unprepared, and optimistic state when you think thing is under your control. It is a weak, rotting, state ready to be harvested by a stronger society (remember what happen to those native Indians when the ship arrived over the horizon).
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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8/15/2013 11:32:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/15/2013 6:41:46 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

I'm getting tired of people saying that communism is ideal. It's not. It requires an almost complete suspension of individual rights and freedoms for the sake of the collective. It's a complete mob rule, and the minority views are not protected. Communism is far from ideal.

I will cut you.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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8/15/2013 11:39:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/15/2013 11:32:47 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 8/15/2013 6:41:46 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

I'm getting tired of people saying that communism is ideal. It's not. It requires an almost complete suspension of individual rights and freedoms for the sake of the collective. It's a complete mob rule, and the minority views are not protected. Communism is far from ideal.

I will cut you.

I'm into that sort of thing.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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8/15/2013 11:43:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/15/2013 11:39:49 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 8/15/2013 11:32:47 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 8/15/2013 6:41:46 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

I'm getting tired of people saying that communism is ideal. It's not. It requires an almost complete suspension of individual rights and freedoms for the sake of the collective. It's a complete mob rule, and the minority views are not protected. Communism is far from ideal.

I will cut you.

I'm into that sort of thing.

We're so compatible.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
JoongYin
Posts: 1
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8/18/2013 1:01:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

How so?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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8/18/2013 2:11:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/18/2013 1:01:44 PM, JoongYin wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:14:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

The bolded is egregiously false and non sequitur.

How so?

Because we don't only strive for our basic needs.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
criticalmass
Posts: 10
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8/18/2013 8:13:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 3:00:41 AM, Picard wrote:
There is a very negative attitude generally surrounding communism, this is only because what was meant to be a communist society was actually a dictatorship.

However, in the future, when we are capable of sustaining our basic needs without need for human labour, then money will have no purpose, eventually everyone will be on a level playing field. Communism is a goal that the world as a whole should strive to one day achieve, the idea that everyone is equal, that no one goes hungry and there is no poverty.

It seems to me to be a good and logical progression, and whilst we are not yet ready as a society for communism it should be a goal.

This is actually closer to a resource based economy and society. communism has never been fully realized in history. In a society as advanced as a resource based one would be any form of modern government would be obsolete. We shouldn't be striving for communism or any other form of government that relies on a governing body during the transition after class warfare because the governing body will not step down and join in the equality it just doesn't work. its like the quote (cant remember who said it) power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely. watch zeitgeist addendum. your ideal society is discussed in that movie but its not communism.