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If "Nothing came from Nothing" then why.. ???

LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 5:07:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well It just popped up in my mind .. I was going through an old debate of User Mikal.. where there were discussion about the statement that "Something can come from Nothing" He refers to some project of Quantum Physics.. but the Question arises if "If something can come from nothing" then why that something at the beginning of the Universe be GOD? I mean why we should attribute it to mere Bacteria or some other microbe why not to God which can answer many much questions in the earth rather then rejecting HIM?

.. If Something came from Nothing
Then Why It can not be GOD? ..
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Mikal
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8/21/2013 5:17:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would recommend reading this book or checking into some of the contentions offered up within it. It does a splendid job of showing why we began to exist. It goes into great detail. This is how i formed my argument when me and you discussed the existence of a God. It is a greatly formulated stance and breaks down the origins of the universe. How we can exist, and why we do exist.

http://www.nytimes.com...
Mikal
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8/21/2013 5:22:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ooops you were not my adversary lol. Well when I debated whomever it was when you read this.

After I read this book is when I started diving into quantum physics and how we can exist without a God.

Even outside of this initial issue, there are much more brought into question. The morality argument and many more.
LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 5:27:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
i would appriceate if you send me a PM just want to exchange prospectives and ideas.. and now a days im going thrugh some other studies i might not get a chance to fetch this book so earlier and also I have many more steps to climb before jumping in the pool.. Lets see what happens! Praise to God!
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Mikal
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8/21/2013 5:30:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 5:27:18 PM, LoopsEye wrote:
i would appriceate if you send me a PM just want to exchange prospectives and ideas.. and now a days im going thrugh some other studies i might not get a chance to fetch this book so earlier and also I have many more steps to climb before jumping in the pool.. Lets see what happens! Praise to God!

Actually we can keep it to here if you want. Maybe some people who are way more informed than me can offer stuff that would help me advance my own beliefs.

Go ahead though. Share your thoughts :)

Ill respond after you finish. Would love to hear you perspective.
LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 5:39:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well I would like to start with the qoute of Famous English Mathematician Fred Hoyle

which rans...

"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein.

Fred Hoyle, Hoyle on evolution, Nature, Vol. 294, No. 5837 (November 12, 1981), p. 105

http://en.wikiquote.org...

(I request you Mikal & all who ever posts here to keep it simple & non technical for a better understanding, Thanks)
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Mikal
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8/21/2013 5:43:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So Is this directly in response to evolution, or offering up the probability the universe runs the way it does

Either way it seems, as if this is a statement to support intelligent design.
Mikal
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8/21/2013 5:43:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So Is this directly in response to evolution, or offering up the probability the universe runs the way it does

Either way it seems, as if this is a statement to support intelligent design.
bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 5:46:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think you misunderstand the point, when you ask your OP question.

Yes, it COULD be that God sprang from nothing, or that the universe did. But the "something from nothing" argument is usually used to prove there MUST be a god...it fails on the grounds you seem to accept, so therefore god is not proven to exist.

Could exist, but doesn't have to.

The burden is on the one claiming there is a god to establish why. Not simply to make a case for possibility; many things are possible, that doesn't make them true, and we usually try to make the fewest unfounded assumptions possible.
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LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 5:57:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In my words if we for example take a Mobile Phone.. that old one Nokia 3310 Even..

What is it made up of?

Silicon & Oil bases for an instance I mean that are the most basic component of it..

Now we see Middle East carries the most Oil in the Sand Dunes of Arabia ..

even if we believe that ingredients were there what we say something coming form nothing is as equal to saying that

a person found a mobile phone over there... that's really phonny.. (well it actually will be phone-y)

now what we conclude from this is that even if there is every ingredient or for that matter the basic of it is there still then we can not accept someone saying that he found a phone there.. even after trillions of years

no matter how much that person claims that you don't see silicon all around.. oils there... this is made up of silicon .. it might have eveoluted from these silicon particals and combination with oils thru the span of a trillion years..

the other Question arises in my mind is... if evolution happened something came from nothing without any God.. why not it happening now???

I would add..

previously until 1954 it was thought that there requires some vital misterious force to produce an organic compound and it can not be prepared in lab..

Later Retrosynthesis was the first organic compound to be synthesized it a chemist's lab. Robert Burns Woodward received the Nobel Peace Prize for Chemistry in 1965 for several total syntheses and is regarded as the father of modern organic synthesis for his synthesis of strychnine in 1954.

http://www.ask.com...

Now as you stated an example of Qunatum Physics .. then what if in year 2130 we come to know the reason of this Quantum Physics phenomenio?

we come to know about radioactive decay and on and on that it also have a cause it do have a kick start there is something behind it..

when where shall we be going?
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LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 6:05:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Note: Please If Anyone Comes And Joins This Discussion I Request Him Do Not Go Out Of Context And Be Simple And Precise.. So That We Can Bring Something Out Of It

Thanks,

Loopseye
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LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 6:24:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would Qoute Two more people about whom no one has a doubt..

The Fathers of Physics..

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

An article by Albert Einstein appeared in the New York Times Magazine on November 9, 1930 pp 1-4. contained the same..

When we read History of Christianity We come to know about Joseph Priestley..

Though he discovered Oxygen but he was more interested in religion rather then this lab and expriments

and as a result His House Lab & Church was burnt to ashes while he escaped to USA

Sir Isaac Newton was a beliver of GOD..

When we say we belive in Facts Science and Knowledge then these are our forefathers in this filed and itsnt that injustice to Run them down and telling them to be fool?
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bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 6:52:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 6:24:26 PM, LoopsEye wrote:
I would Qoute Two more people about whom no one has a doubt..

In what sense? That they're right about everything ever?

The Fathers of Physics..

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

Einstein also said:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

But what he said is really irrelevant without some sort of actual backing.

An article by Albert Einstein appeared in the New York Times Magazine on November 9, 1930 pp 1-4. contained the same..

When we read History of Christianity We come to know about Joseph Priestley..

Though he discovered Oxygen but he was more interested in religion rather then this lab and expriments

and as a result His House Lab & Church was burnt to ashes while he escaped to USA

Sir Isaac Newton was a beliver of GOD..

Newton believed a lot of crazy things...

When we say we belive in Facts Science and Knowledge then these are our forefathers in this filed and itsnt that injustice to Run them down and telling them to be fool?

This sentence doesn't parse right...I'm unsure of your point but will assume that you're saying it's unfair of us to dismiss religion because they believed in it, and they helped form the basis of a lot of things we believe today?

If so, you should look up Einstein's views on Quantum Mechanics. He steadfastly refused to believe in indeterminism, and though we certainly respect him, and the things he brought forward that have been established, we don't discount quantum mechanics just because he didn't like it.
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LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 7:05:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 6:52:45 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
..............

Please find time to comment on Post # 10 also ..

Thanks.
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bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 5:57:21 PM, LoopsEye wrote:
In my words if we for example take a Mobile Phone.. that old one Nokia 3310 Even..

What is it made up of?

Silicon & Oil bases for an instance I mean that are the most basic component of it..

Now we see Middle East carries the most Oil in the Sand Dunes of Arabia ..

even if we believe that ingredients were there what we say something coming form nothing is as equal to saying that

a person found a mobile phone over there... that's really phonny.. (well it actually will be phone-y)

No, it isn't.

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

Further, you seemed to be starting from the acceptance of the premise, using it to argue for the possibility of god...do you not?

now what we conclude from this is that even if there is every ingredient or for that matter the basic of it is there still then we can not accept someone saying that he found a phone there.. even after trillions of years

no matter how much that person claims that you don't see silicon all around.. oils there... this is made up of silicon .. it might have eveoluted from these silicon particals and combination with oils thru the span of a trillion years..


the other Question arises in my mind is... if evolution happened something came from nothing without any God.. why not it happening now???

Well, evolution IS happening now, so I'm not sure I understand your point.

I would add..

previously until 1954 it was thought that there requires some vital misterious force to produce an organic compound and it can not be prepared in lab..


Later Retrosynthesis was the first organic compound to be synthesized it a chemist's lab. Robert Burns Woodward received the Nobel Peace Prize for Chemistry in 1965 for several total syntheses and is regarded as the father of modern organic synthesis for his synthesis of strychnine in 1954.

http://www.ask.com...


Now as you stated an example of Qunatum Physics .. then what if in year 2130 we come to know the reason of this Quantum Physics phenomenio?

we come to know about radioactive decay and on and on that it also have a cause it do have a kick start there is something behind it..

when where shall we be going?

That will depend on what we find out then. But since we don't know what that is, in the meantime we make judgments based on the information we have.
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LoopsEye
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8/21/2013 7:39:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/21/2013 5:57:21 PM, LoopsEye wrote:
In my words if we for example take a Mobile Phone.. that old one Nokia 3310 Even..

What is it made up of?

Silicon & Oil bases for an instance I mean that are the most basic component of it..

Now we see Middle East carries the most Oil in the Sand Dunes of Arabia ..

even if we believe that ingredients were there what we say something coming form nothing is as equal to saying that

a person found a mobile phone over there... that's really phonny.. (well it actually will be phone-y)

No, it isn't.

I Think you missed the bullseye! the concept i wanted to convey was.. for everything that is there .. we human seek a creator.. if a door is knocked by OUR DAD we naturally utter whoo iss??? that time we are not sitting and anylising that now the door has knocked.. we have already seen through Qauntum Physics that something can happen from nothing.. it would leave THE DAD TO STAND OUT OF HOUSE IN COLD RAINY NIGHT...

what i mean to convey is what so ever happenes a human mind seeks for reason..

I would like go give following quotations..

though you do not belive in it but regardless the source the statement says alot.

form Glorious Quran : .. "What! Did you then think that We had created you in vain...?" (23:115)

Narration of Prophet Muhammad(P B U H) : .. "God has not created anything better than reason, or anything more perfect or more beautiful than reason

I am quoting them to show what is the natural responce of a Human being what ever happens.. We try to find reason..

If an Atheist happnes to lose his memory.. and is in hospital and suddenly a ball is thrown to him he will surly look here and there to see from where it came.......?? why? it is a natural response...

we can go reverse phrase the Newton's Law....... on which the Physics is based...

IF THERE HAPPENS A REACTION!... THERE HAS TO BE SOME CAUSE OF ACTION.. PROBABLY SOMEONE HIGHER THEN THE action??

more over..

Concering to my example.. what i said..

I illustrated a Mobile Phone coming from Silicon and Oil..

which could be way way wayy more easier then a UNIVERSE A MULTIVERSE COMING FROM NOTHING..

.........

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

Further, you seemed to be starting from the acceptance of the premise, using it to argue for the possibility of god...do you not?


now what we conclude from this is that even if there is every ingredient or for that matter the basic of it is there still then we can not accept someone saying that he found a phone there.. even after trillions of years

no matter how much that person claims that you don't see silicon all around.. oils there... this is made up of silicon .. it might have eveoluted from these silicon particals and combination with oils thru the span of a trillion years..


the other Question arises in my mind is... if evolution happened something came from nothing without any God.. why not it happening now???

Well, evolution IS happening now, so I'm not sure I understand your point.

I would add..

previously until 1954 it was thought that there requires some vital misterious force to produce an organic compound and it can not be prepared in lab..


Later Retrosynthesis was the first organic compound to be synthesized it a chemist's lab. Robert Burns Woodward received the Nobel Peace Prize for Chemistry in 1965 for several total syntheses and is regarded as the father of modern organic synthesis for his synthesis of strychnine in 1954.

http://www.ask.com...


Now as you stated an example of Qunatum Physics .. then what if in year 2130 we come to know the reason of this Quantum Physics phenomenio?

we come to know about radioactive decay and on and on that it also have a cause it do have a kick start there is something behind it..

when where shall we be going?

That will depend on what we find out then. But since we don't know what that is, in the meantime we make judgments based on the information we have.
Skeptics: Any Question about Islam? --> http://www.debate.org...

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Mikal
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8/21/2013 7:53:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your stance seems sort of similar to the watch maker analogy.

If you are walking along a beach and you find a watch

Would you assume that the waves or nature itself made the watch

Or would you assume someone left it or dropped it.
SovereignDream
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8/21/2013 8:01:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

What in the poopenshauftenzitzel does it even mean to "experience nothing"? How the hell do you go about "experiencing" nothing?
bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 8:38:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 8:01:24 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

What in the poopenshauftenzitzel does it even mean to "experience nothing"? How the hell do you go about "experiencing" nothing?

You don't, which was the point I was trying to get at. English is not the OPs first language, and they specifically asked to have things be as non-technical as possible. I was going for "simple".
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bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 8:43:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 7:39:02 PM, LoopsEye wrote:

I Think you missed the bullseye! the concept i wanted to convey was.. for everything that is there .. we human seek a creator.

Why?

if a door is knocked by OUR DAD we naturally utter whoo iss???

Because doors are usually knocked on by people. But not always.

that time we are not sitting and anylising that now the door has knocked.. we have already seen through Qauntum Physics that something can happen from nothing.. it would leave THE DAD TO STAND OUT OF HOUSE IN COLD RAINY NIGHT...

Your analogy isn't really flowing. In the case of "the dad", we know you have a dad, and that when there's a knock it's usually a person.

Here, we have none of that. Just the unfounded assertion that there's god.

I would like go give following quotations..

though you do not belive in it but regardless the source the statement says alot.

form Glorious Quran : .. "What! Did you then think that We had created you in vain...?" (23:115)

Narration of Prophet Muhammad(P B U H) : .. "God has not created anything better than reason, or anything more perfect or more beautiful than reason


I am quoting them to show what is the natural responce of a Human being what ever happens.. We try to find reason..

Reason =/= personal agency.

If an Atheist happnes to lose his memory.. and is in hospital and suddenly a ball is thrown to him he will surly look here and there to see from where it came.......?? why? it is a natural response...

Yes, but this has no bearing on anything except our natural ability to extrapolate. A memory-less person would do the same...even if it had teleported onto him.

we can go reverse phrase the Newton's Law....... on which the Physics is based...

IF THERE HAPPENS A REACTION!... THERE HAS TO BE SOME CAUSE OF ACTION.. PROBABLY SOMEONE HIGHER THEN THE action??

So what's god's "cause of action"?

more over..

Concering to my example.. what i said..

I illustrated a Mobile Phone coming from Silicon and Oil..

which could be way way wayy more easier then a UNIVERSE A MULTIVERSE COMING FROM NOTHING..

Which would be way way wayy easier than a God coming from nothing.
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SovereignDream
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8/21/2013 8:50:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 8:38:56 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/21/2013 8:01:24 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

What in the poopenshauftenzitzel does it even mean to "experience nothing"? How the hell do you go about "experiencing" nothing?

You don't, which was the point I was trying to get at. English is not the OPs first language, and they specifically asked to have things be as non-technical as possible. I was going for "simple".

The point is that you cannot, even in principle, experience nothing. That's just an incoherent combination of words.
ben2974
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8/21/2013 9:12:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 5:17:50 PM, Mikal wrote:
I would recommend reading this book or checking into some of the contentions offered up within it. It does a splendid job of showing why we began to exist. It goes into great detail. This is how i formed my argument when me and you discussed the existence of a God. It is a greatly formulated stance and breaks down the origins of the universe. How we can exist, and why we do exist.

http://www.nytimes.com...

Damn, Mr. Albert got hella pissed from what he read, hahaha
bladerunner060
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8/21/2013 9:23:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 8:50:24 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/21/2013 8:38:56 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 8/21/2013 8:01:24 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/21/2013 7:19:14 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:

We have no experience with nothing, remember. We're not talking "no other stuff", we're talking "no thing"; no time, no space, no mass, no energy. We have literally no experience of it.

What in the poopenshauftenzitzel does it even mean to "experience nothing"? How the hell do you go about "experiencing" nothing?

You don't, which was the point I was trying to get at. English is not the OPs first language, and they specifically asked to have things be as non-technical as possible. I was going for "simple".

The point is that you cannot, even in principle, experience nothing. That's just an incoherent combination of words.

Right, but that's the point. Making statements about what is or is not possible with "nothing" is meaningless.
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Mikal
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8/21/2013 10:05:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 9:12:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 8/21/2013 5:17:50 PM, Mikal wrote:
I would recommend reading this book or checking into some of the contentions offered up within it. It does a splendid job of showing why we began to exist. It goes into great detail. This is how i formed my argument when me and you discussed the existence of a God. It is a greatly formulated stance and breaks down the origins of the universe. How we can exist, and why we do exist.

http://www.nytimes.com...

Damn, Mr. Albert got hella pissed from what he read, hahaha

yeah I found it quite humorous lol.
LoopsEye
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8/22/2013 3:40:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
: Reason =/= personal agency.

Reason is something Science Seeks .. e.g. it will not sit down that Quantum Physics tries to prove something can come out of nothing ..

its against the laws of Physics Science and Nature..


Yes, but this has no bearing on anything except our natural ability to extrapolate. A memory-less person would do the same...even if it had teleported onto him.

So what's god's "cause of action"?


See there has to be a Start of something.. its like if

you want to move some furniture in your room.. and you goto next door friend and ask him 'Can you give me a hand'?

and He replies..

'I will give you a hand but only if someone else gives me a hand!'

and then he goes to next... that person goes to next... it will be a Non stop illogical stupidity there has to has a start... or if we believe that way That furniture is never going to move...

We have to believe in it .. not believing is illogical..

Which would be way way way easier than a God coming from nothing.

My Last Statement I would like to give to Mikal & bladerunner060 is

to Believe in God.. We have to have a logical reason, power of reasoning .. that nothing can come from something..

There has to be a start of it.. and we are well aware of the laws of Physics..

e.g. Antoine Lavoisier's The Law of Conservation of Energy of "Any system closed to all transfers of matter and energy (both of which have mass), the mass of the system must remain constant over time, as system mass cannot change quantity if it is not added or removed. Hence, the quantity of mass is "conserved" over time"

http://en.wikipedia.org... If we stop believing in these laws The Basic of this world would shake!

so I was saying..

Believe in God: to have belief in GOD We have to have a logical reason, power of reasoning .. that nothing can come from something..

but!

to Believe in Something can come from nothing : We have to have a firm faith in this otherwise it can not stand the ground of reasoning.

.

.

.

as for reply

Now as you stated an example of Quantum Physics .. then what if in year 2130 we come to know the reason of this Quantum Physics phenomena?

we come to know about radioactive decay and on and on that it also have a cause it do have a kick start there is something behind it..

when where shall we be going?

That will depend on what we find out then. But since we don't know what that is, in the meantime we make judgments based on the information we have.

Here we should agree that if we believe blindly in Science rather then a reason it will always be on shaky Grounds...

Today we will believe .. Something can come from nothing**

Tomorrow Same science I believe 99% that is going to prove that No Nothing can come from nothing and it is going to shake the fundamentals of Atheism..

which makes it very weak faith.. I would strictly call it a religion because we find all the similarities in a religion and Atheism.

**Quantum mechanics (QM " also known as quantum physics, or quantum theory)
as far as Mikal's example of Quantum Physics is concerned we can better call it Quantum Theory as Every Recognized Source available online calls it a Theory!
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Rational_Thinker9119
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8/22/2013 12:31:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The universe was never created, and it never came into being. It exists tenselessly as a 4d or n + 1d space-time block. This is the most accepted view in metaphysics regarding time, and the most accepted view in science as well (a 4d space-time manifold is the best way to formulate Special Relativity). The whole "something from nothing" is a red herring and a straw-man.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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8/22/2013 1:16:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/22/2013 3:40:20 AM, LoopsEye wrote:
: Reason =/= personal agency.

Reason is something Science Seeks .. e.g. it will not sit down that Quantum Physics tries to prove something can come out of nothing ..

its against the laws of Physics Science and Nature..

You started this OP as an argument for the existence of god.

Now you're claiming it's "against the laws of physics and nature".

You can't accept something when you think it'll help you but reject it when you think it hurts you.

See there has to be a Start of something..

That would therefore lead one to ask what the start of God is. What you're doing, when you insert God as you are, is merely shifting the exact same question back one degree, instead of asking it about the universe, you slot in "god". But all the same questions apply to him, too.

and then he goes to next... that person goes to next... it will be a Non stop illogical stupidity there has to has a start... or if we believe that way That furniture is never going to move...

Okay. Why God? Why does the universe as a concept require a start, but not God?

We have to believe in it .. not believing is illogical..

No, it isn't logical. It's called "special pleading", and it is a fallacy.

My Last Statement I would like to give to Mikal & bladerunner060 is

Wait, your "last statement"?

to Believe in God.. We have to have a logical reason, power of reasoning .. that nothing can come from something..

There has to be a start of it.. and we are well aware of the laws of Physics..

No offense? But it's kind of clear you are not.

e.g. Antoine Lavoisier's The Law of Conservation of Energy of "Any system closed to all transfers of matter and energy (both of which have mass), the mass of the system must remain constant over time, as system mass cannot change quantity if it is not added or removed. Hence, the quantity of mass is "conserved" over time"

http://en.wikipedia.org... If we stop believing in these laws The Basic of this world would shake!

Quoting it doesn't indicate you understand it, you understand it, right?

so I was saying..

Believe in God: to have belief in GOD We have to have a logical reason, power of reasoning .. that nothing can come from something..

You have provided no logical reasoning that is free of fallacy. Now, there are some religious folks to may or may not have strong arguments. But the ones you're presenting are well-known fallacies.

but!

to Believe in Something can come from nothing : We have to have a firm faith in this otherwise it can not stand the ground of reasoning.

The answer "I don't know" is preferable to an answer asserted without sufficiency.

Today we will believe .. Something can come from nothing**

Tomorrow Same science I believe 99% that is going to prove that No Nothing can come from nothing and it is going to shake the fundamentals of Atheism..

But until then, appealing to some hidden knowledge is not rational. It's possible our understanding will change...but that doesn't mean anything to the information we have NOW.

which makes it very weak faith.. I would strictly call it a religion because we find all the similarities in a religion and Atheism.

You would be wrong.

**Quantum mechanics (QM " also known as quantum physics, or quantum theory)
as far as Mikal's example of Quantum Physics is concerned we can better call it Quantum Theory as Every Recognized Source available online calls it a Theory!


Well, 1, again, you seemed to accept it at the outset. 2, Theory means something different in the context of science. Gravity is a theory.
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SovereignDream
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8/23/2013 1:22:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 9:23:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Right, but that's the point. Making statements about what is or is not possible with "nothing" is meaningless.

What do you mean about "what is possible or not with nothing"?
Df0512
Posts: 966
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8/23/2013 1:56:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/21/2013 5:07:58 PM, LoopsEye wrote:
Well It just popped up in my mind .. I was going through an old debate of User Mikal.. where there were discussion about the statement that "Something can come from Nothing" He refers to some project of Quantum Physics.. but the Question arises if "If something can come from nothing" then why that something at the beginning of the Universe be GOD? I mean why we should attribute it to mere Bacteria or some other microbe why not to God which can answer many much questions in the earth rather then rejecting HIM?

.. If Something came from Nothing
Then Why It can not be GOD? ..

I happen to believe that if God does exist, that is where we will find him. But as of now we have no way of confirming that. Someone on this site (sorry I dont remeber who) said something that really made me think. He/she said "God put us in a universe where it's impossible to prove his existence". I think our understand of him is so far from anything we could ever imagine, we'd have to die to find out for sure. The amount of work God would have to do to prove to everyone he is real would be uncanny. It's not that it "can not be GOD" its that is simpely is not. The mountain we would have to climb to come to anyother conclusion is way too high.
bladerunner060
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8/23/2013 1:57:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 1:22:21 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 8/21/2013 9:23:43 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Right, but that's the point. Making statements about what is or is not possible with "nothing" is meaningless.

What do you mean about "what is possible or not with nothing"?

We cannot assert anything meaningful about "nothing"; not even that such a thing is possible.
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