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God's Rights

Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/1/2013 5:49:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
for some reason i can't see god as the most powerful. the reason i say that is that theoretically there are planes that can't interact with each other. gods and ours can. but his plane is at a level that we can't actually feel his power (i'm just throwing this out i am slowly drifting from the abrahamic religion style, its just too much for me.)
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/1/2013 5:54:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.

i've been waiting a long time for someone to say that. have you ever heard of multiverse theory. it basically states that universes are being created constantly through actions and events. a separate timeline is basically another universe. there are infinite possibilities of universes so that probably makes ours not the first. its 50/50 to be able to track down the Original universe, because each one has a theoretical cosmic frequency. if you can find which cosmic frequency has attributes of all the others, that's probably the original. we don't have the tech to do that yet and its all theoretical.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/1/2013 11:01:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 5:54:39 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.

i've been waiting a long time for someone to say that. have you ever heard of multiverse theory. it basically states that universes are being created constantly through actions and events. a separate timeline is basically another universe. there are infinite possibilities of universes so that probably makes ours not the first. its 50/50 to be able to track down the Original universe, because each one has a theoretical cosmic frequency. if you can find which cosmic frequency has attributes of all the others, that's probably the original. we don't have the tech to do that yet and its all theoretical.

You know cyber what the problem is? modern people can accept any (ANY) theory about the universe , except the most obvious! Everything but God!!!
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/1/2013 11:02:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 11:01:34 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 5:54:39 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.

i've been waiting a long time for someone to say that. have you ever heard of multiverse theory. it basically states that universes are being created constantly through actions and events. a separate timeline is basically another universe. there are infinite possibilities of universes so that probably makes ours not the first. its 50/50 to be able to track down the Original universe, because each one has a theoretical cosmic frequency. if you can find which cosmic frequency has attributes of all the others, that's probably the original. we don't have the tech to do that yet and its all theoretical.

You know cyber what the problem is? modern people can accept any (ANY) theory about the universe , except the most obvious! Everything but God!!!

i can accept that god created the first universe, but this one is not the first.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/1/2013 11:23:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 11:02:35 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 11:01:34 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 5:54:39 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.

i've been waiting a long time for someone to say that. have you ever heard of multiverse theory. it basically states that universes are being created constantly through actions and events. a separate timeline is basically another universe. there are infinite possibilities of universes so that probably makes ours not the first. its 50/50 to be able to track down the Original universe, because each one has a theoretical cosmic frequency. if you can find which cosmic frequency has attributes of all the others, that's probably the original. we don't have the tech to do that yet and its all theoretical.

You know cyber what the problem is? modern people can accept any (ANY) theory about the universe , except the most obvious! Everything but God!!!

i can accept that god created the first universe, but this one is not the first.

Well maybe you're right about it not being the first, but even the process of multiverse needs a setter, process = plan
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/2/2013 8:39:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, seems I built a bridge between Philosophy and Religion and nobody cares. Damn it, guys. Damn, damn, damn.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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9/2/2013 8:52:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
God does not have "different morals to us" anymore than a fish has "different humanity to us". God either has the morality which binds everyone else, or he is not a moral creature. To paraphrase Hume's snark remark, morality is so vast that it extends enough to cover both the poorest of society to those so amazingly high in their ivory towers that we call them politicians: it does not have far to travel to reach up and encompass this "God" creature as well. If God has a "different morality to us", then I'm afraid God is not good.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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9/2/2013 1:38:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/1/2013 11:23:40 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 11:02:35 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 11:01:34 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 5:54:39 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 9/1/2013 8:15:41 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:49:50 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/1/2013 7:25:58 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
He is superior to us , He isn't one of us He is our Cause,

And His morals got to be different, what is right for him isn't necessarily right for us, and what is evil for Him isn't necessarily evil for us.

He can be Arrogant, because there literally is nothing greater than him, so arrogance is good for Him.

He can be jealousy for there is literally nothing Equal to Him, so Jealousy is good for Him.

He does get angry like He can get pleased, those are His attributes (I wouldn't call this a right).

He can hate as much as He can love.

He doesn't Beget nor Was He begotten, so this is Evil for Who He is; but good for us : creatures.

He doesn't Die and we do.

So He isn't like us, and nothing is like Him. not because He would do something that we too do that He would be any comparable to us.

That's nonsense. How is it that people can parade around with such a humanistic deity and honestly believe it's something other than a human invention that happened to secure its progeny by monopolizing ethics?

Not discussing God existence here, there are other threads for this.

You believe God origin is people.

I believe People and the universe origin is God.

We can't start form opposite premises and get the same conclusions.

i've been waiting a long time for someone to say that. have you ever heard of multiverse theory. it basically states that universes are being created constantly through actions and events. a separate timeline is basically another universe. there are infinite possibilities of universes so that probably makes ours not the first. its 50/50 to be able to track down the Original universe, because each one has a theoretical cosmic frequency. if you can find which cosmic frequency has attributes of all the others, that's probably the original. we don't have the tech to do that yet and its all theoretical.

You know cyber what the problem is? modern people can accept any (ANY) theory about the universe , except the most obvious! Everything but God!!!

i can accept that god created the first universe, but this one is not the first.

Well maybe you're right about it not being the first, but even the process of multiverse needs a setter, process = plan

well yes the first was created and it probably had a plan but the creation of a multiverse probably wasn't
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/2/2013 11:08:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/2/2013 8:52:42 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
God does not have "different morals to us" anymore than a fish has "different humanity to us". God either has the morality which binds everyone else, or he is not a moral creature. To paraphrase Hume's snark remark, morality is so vast that it extends enough to cover both the poorest of society to those so amazingly high in their ivory towers that we call them politicians: it does not have far to travel to reach up and encompass this "God" creature as well. If God has a "different morality to us", then I'm afraid God is not good.

There is no Morality that binds everyone else!! if you're a Human you got your morals, if you're a cat you got others. and the Morals are something set for you, the mere sense of what is good and beneficial and what isn't is in itself an instinct we may agree about but can't justify.

For the Creator, none sets His Morals, He is the one who sets His morals that are proper to Him , and the other Morals of the rest of his creatures according to their functions, nature and whatever He wills.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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9/3/2013 6:33:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You are in short proposing a repugnant moral relativism, where God can do as He wishes without evaluation because he's God. This is exactly the same argument that the Divine Right supporters used to justify a lack of criticism of the aristocracy. It is a system used to defend a repugnant act by claiming it is just based on some new lofty inaccessible moral system which no-one can seem to quite fathom. In other words, it is a "just-so" case, where the acts are not moral because they are moral acts, but the acts are moral because of the agent who commits them: the act is moral because God did them. What an abhorrent despotic dogma.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/3/2013 9:14:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 6:33:28 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
You are in short proposing a repugnant moral relativism, where God can do as He wishes without evaluation because he's God. This is exactly the same argument that the Divine Right supporters used to justify a lack of criticism of the aristocracy. It is a system used to defend a repugnant act by claiming it is just based on some new lofty inaccessible moral system which no-one can seem to quite fathom. In other words, it is a "just-so" case, where the acts are not moral because they are moral acts, but the acts are moral because of the agent who commits them: the act is moral because God did them. What an abhorrent despotic dogma.

You constantly compare people to God, for this reason you aren't able to understand my point,you got to understand that God isn't one of those people, none caused him to be, He just Is without any cause, for this reason nothing caused Him and He is accountable to none. it isn't Just if a people have a VIP advantages before the law just because they are wealthy , for the reason that justice equals between all humans, But God isn't a human. He even is the Creator of Humans, universe and the rest of creatures, He even is the one who set what evil and good are, and what Justice is! now if you insist that God should be judged, before who do you want him to be judged who is the one who is going to know better than Him ?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/3/2013 9:23:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Fruitytree, why does your God give man power over women in your society? I'm just wondering what you think; not trying to pick a fight :P
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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9/3/2013 7:24:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 9:23:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Fruitytree, why does your God give man power over women in your society? I'm just wondering what you think; not trying to pick a fight :P

This is more something cultural than religious, Islamic teachings are not exactly what you see in Muslims societies.But in Islam the Wife is commended by God to obey her husband (in usual social things, not absolute obedience), and everybody are commanded to obey their parents, particularly their mothers, it's a social hierarchy , that allows to keep and save family and social morals. but just to bring to your attention, the wife isn't asked to obey her husband all the time without questioning, it just pointing him as the boss of the household, She isn't supposed to obey like a slave, it's really obedience in a reasonable way. and in Islam the woman can ask for divorce on her own, she can own, inherit, trade, work, learn, teach as long as she is modest. You have to know that wherever women have rebelled against men, there the society is declining! not saying it's the fault of women, but just the social balance is lost.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/3/2013 7:30:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/3/2013 7:24:57 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 9/3/2013 9:23:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Fruitytree, why does your God give man power over women in your society? I'm just wondering what you think; not trying to pick a fight :P

This is more something cultural than religious, Islamic teachings are not exactly what you see in Muslims societies.But in Islam the Wife is commended by God to obey her husband (in usual social things, not absolute obedience), and everybody are commanded to obey their parents, particularly their mothers, it's a social hierarchy , that allows to keep and save family and social morals. but just to bring to your attention, the wife isn't asked to obey her husband all the time without questioning, it just pointing him as the boss of the household, She isn't supposed to obey like a slave, it's really obedience in a reasonable way. and in Islam the woman can ask for divorce on her own, she can own, inherit, trade, work, learn, teach as long as she is modest. You have to know that wherever women have rebelled against men, there the society is declining! not saying it's the fault of women, but just the social balance is lost.

Do you feel lonely not being married, Fruitytree? How come you aren't? I'm just wondering.