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Godel, Escher, Bach.

Eitan_Zohar
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11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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11/16/2013 2:34:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, I think the book is pretty well-written and potentially enriching; it can sometimes come across as over-reaching, too florid, or naively interdisciplinary, but viewing it as a cultural synthesis anchored by a meditation on cognition rather than a rigorous, technical thesis on formal logic, meta-mathematics, and artificial intelligence can balance this feeling out.

But we can't dictate to you what your personal impressions of this book or any other will be, or what pattern of behaviors you must perform to maximize your comprehension of it. If your curiosity is aroused by something, then what more can we give you? You have the most precious and necessary thing already. Over-planning these ventures and placing oneself in a pressure cooker of caveats and criteria will only leach the joy from things.
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 11:39:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
OK, then. But I would still like the mathematics.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 4:20:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 1:36:55 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I love Douglas Hofstadter.

I think I would, too. But can you tell me what math I should pick up before I read?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Poetaster
Posts: 587
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11/16/2013 6:33:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 4:20:23 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 1:36:55 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I love Douglas Hofstadter.

I think I would, too. But can you tell me what math I should pick up before I read?

Well, there's this excellent little primer called Godel, Escher, Bach...
"The book you are looking for hasn't been written yet. What you are looking for you are going to have to find yourself, it's not going to be in a book..." -Sidewalker
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 6:46:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 6:33:17 PM, Poetaster wrote:
At 11/16/2013 4:20:23 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 1:36:55 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I love Douglas Hofstadter.

I think I would, too. But can you tell me what math I should pick up before I read?

Well, there's this excellent little primer called Godel, Escher, Bach...

My math is sixth grade level. I haven't had any use for it until now.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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11/16/2013 8:02:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

And this isn't thoroughly MouthWash to you?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 8:34:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

I was being facetious. Obviously.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/16/2013 8:41:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 8:34:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

I was being facetious. Obviously.

Wow... I'm incredibly naive. What befell me that I actually expected you to produce a semi-apologetic or semi-honest response?

No worries though, I don't blame you. You have some serious character flaws that you need to work on - and I shudder to imagine how they manifest in your real life interactions. Good luck.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 8:45:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 8:41:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:34:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

I was being facetious. Obviously.

Wow... I'm incredibly naive. What befell me that I actually expected you to produce a semi-apologetic or semi-honest response?

No worries though, I don't blame you. You have some serious character flaws that you need to work on - and I shudder to imagine how they manifest in your real life interactions. Good luck.

I literally made a comment about those who didn't read GEB being ignorant about consciousness. As a jab a the over-the-top rave reviews. Can we get this clown off of this thread?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/16/2013 8:51:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 8:45:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:41:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:34:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

I was being facetious. Obviously.

Wow... I'm incredibly naive. What befell me that I actually expected you to produce a semi-apologetic or semi-honest response?

No worries though, I don't blame you. You have some serious character flaws that you need to work on - and I shudder to imagine how they manifest in your real life interactions. Good luck.

I literally made a comment about those who didn't read GEB being ignorant about consciousness. As a jab a the over-the-top rave reviews. Can we get this clown off of this thread?

Considering that none of that was present in the context of that thread, and this was not your response when I took offense the first time (actually you didn't respond altogether),... I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you're misrepresenting the intention of your comment (in my most charitable language... in fact you're probably outright lying).

I maintain my prior exhortation, but this time with blame.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 8:57:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 8:51:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:45:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:41:12 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:34:42 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 7:59:57 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/15/2013 10:28:52 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I am attempting to read this book sometime in the next few months (hopefully I actually will carry through with it). I've heard this is an incredible book. For those of who have read it, I have four questions:

Is this review accurate or hyperbole?: http://www.amazon.com...

What should I read beforehand to prepare or put myself in the right mindframe?

What math should I know to make it easier?

What should I do afterwards? Are there any good followups? I'm more interested in the science and philosophy parts. I might discover the joy of recreational mathematics along the way, but I don't really think it's likely.

http://www.debate.org...

So you were using a book you never read - and so don't actually know the contents of - as the standard and exclusive source for understanding consciousness ... and doing so with a tone that implied that you had read it?

I was being facetious. Obviously.

Wow... I'm incredibly naive. What befell me that I actually expected you to produce a semi-apologetic or semi-honest response?

No worries though, I don't blame you. You have some serious character flaws that you need to work on - and I shudder to imagine how they manifest in your real life interactions. Good luck.

I literally made a comment about those who didn't read GEB being ignorant about consciousness. As a jab a the over-the-top rave reviews. Can we get this clown off of this thread?

Considering that none of that was present in the context of that thread,

Why should it be?

and this was not your response when I took offense the first time (actually you didn't respond altogether),...

Yes, I believe it was. "I was being facetious. Obviously." I've been around Lesswrongers and their idol worship of Yudkowsky and his literature prompted me to say it... it's more like a joke cracked to myself, although there is a bit of a cult surrounding the book as well.

I'm going to go ahead and conclude that you're misrepresenting the intention of your comment (in my most charitable language... in fact you're probably outright lying).

I maintain my prior exhortation, but this time with blame.

Excuse me? I don't need your approval every time I make a sardonic comment. I'll ask you- politely- to get off this thread unless you have something relevant to say.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/16/2013 9:04:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 8:57:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

Excuse me? I don't need your approval every time I make a sardonic comment. I'll ask you- politely- to get off this thread unless you have something relevant to say.

I'm certain that you're lying so I had no intention of responding further - that is until I read your hilarious warning at the end. So here I am to continue responding until you thoroughly understand the extent to which you are powerless over my decision to post here or not.

... call me childish... but I'm in a teaching mood today (to borrow a page from YYW's book) :P
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 9:23:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 9:04:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:57:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

Excuse me? I don't need your approval every time I make a sardonic comment. I'll ask you- politely- to get off this thread unless you have something relevant to say.

I'm certain that you're lying so I had no intention of responding further - that is until I read your hilarious warning at the end. So here I am to continue responding until you thoroughly understand the extent to which you are powerless over my decision to post here or not.

... call me childish... but I'm in a teaching mood today (to borrow a page from YYW's book) :P

Do you even understand why this is messed up?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/16/2013 9:26:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 9:23:16 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 9:04:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:57:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

Excuse me? I don't need your approval every time I make a sardonic comment. I'll ask you- politely- to get off this thread unless you have something relevant to say.

I'm certain that you're lying so I had no intention of responding further - that is until I read your hilarious warning at the end. So here I am to continue responding until you thoroughly understand the extent to which you are powerless over my decision to post here or not.

... call me childish... but I'm in a teaching mood today (to borrow a page from YYW's book) :P

Do you even understand why this is messed up?

warning for lack of a better term. would "instruction" be more to your liking?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/16/2013 9:47:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/16/2013 9:26:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 9:23:16 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 9:04:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/16/2013 8:57:08 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:

Excuse me? I don't need your approval every time I make a sardonic comment. I'll ask you- politely- to get off this thread unless you have something relevant to say.

I'm certain that you're lying so I had no intention of responding further - that is until I read your hilarious warning at the end. So here I am to continue responding until you thoroughly understand the extent to which you are powerless over my decision to post here or not.

... call me childish... but I'm in a teaching mood today (to borrow a page from YYW's book) :P

Do you even understand why this is messed up?

warning for lack of a better term. would "instruction" be more to your liking?

"Asking" would be more accurate.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/17/2013 2:51:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 2:11:52 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/16/2013 4:20:23 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/16/2013 1:36:55 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I love Douglas Hofstadter.

I think I would, too. But can you tell me what math I should pick up before I read?

Maybe a little number and set theory?

I'll try that, then.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."