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What Is Intellegence?

xXCryptoXx
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12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?
Nolite Timere
Rational_Thinker9119
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12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/6/2013 10:40:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

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Wren_cyborg
Posts: 241
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12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;) The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.
Rational_Thinker9119
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12/7/2013 1:21:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;)

No, Abiogenesis can.

The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.

Why not?
Wren_cyborg
Posts: 241
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12/7/2013 1:24:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 1:21:47 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;)

No, Abiogenesis can.

No, it can't.

The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.

Why not?

The essence of life has always been well outside of the reach of science, and if it wasn't we probably wouldn't have religion anymore -_-
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/7/2013 2:10:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 1:24:41 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:21:47 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;)

No, Abiogenesis can.

No, it can't.

Yes it can.

"Be it on Earth or some other world, life had to begin via processes known as abiogenesis. Obviously, there must have been an evolutionary progression beginning with simple chemical compounds to proto-life, then to DNA-equipped life capable of replicating itself. As detailed in this text, those prebiological evolutionary steps may have taken place in submarine alkaline hydrothermal vents and required various chemical interactions and divisions involving amino acids, polyphosphate-peptide synergy, the creating of biosynthetic pathways and the emergence of sparse metabolic network, and the assembly of pre-genetic information by primordial cells, with some championing compartmentalizaton, others, vesicles, and all this leading to an RNA world in which viruses and retroviruses played an important part. The origin of life and evolution of prokaryotes was not a matter of chance, but deterministic, probable and necessary and that these bioenergetic principles are likely to apply throughout the universe "" - Michaell Russell (Editor), Nick Lane, Edward N. Trifonov, Pabulo H. Rampelotto, Stephen Freeland, John F. Allen, Eugenio Simoncini, Christof B. Mast , Andrew J. Pratt, Anne Volbeda


The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.

Why not?

The essence of life has always been well outside of the reach of science, and if it wasn't we probably wouldn't have religion anymore -_-

Too bad most scientists disagree with you.
xXCryptoXx
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12/7/2013 10:56:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 2:10:08 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:24:41 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:21:47 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;)

No, Abiogenesis can.

No, it can't.

Yes it can.

"Be it on Earth or some other world, life had to begin via processes known as abiogenesis. Obviously, there must have been an evolutionary progression beginning with simple chemical compounds to proto-life, then to DNA-equipped life capable of replicating itself. As detailed in this text, those prebiological evolutionary steps may have taken place in submarine alkaline hydrothermal vents and required various chemical interactions and divisions involving amino acids, polyphosphate-peptide synergy, the creating of biosynthetic pathways and the emergence of sparse metabolic network, and the assembly of pre-genetic information by primordial cells, with some championing compartmentalizaton, others, vesicles, and all this leading to an RNA world in which viruses and retroviruses played an important part. The origin of life and evolution of prokaryotes was not a matter of chance, but deterministic, probable and necessary and that these bioenergetic principles are likely to apply throughout the universe "" - Michaell Russell (Editor), Nick Lane, Edward N. Trifonov, Pabulo H. Rampelotto, Stephen Freeland, John F. Allen, Eugenio Simoncini, Christof B. Mast , Andrew J. Pratt, Anne Volbeda

Life itself cannot be explained. There is no process in which something unintelligent non-living becomes something intelligent and living. There is no middle ground, it just seems to happen as soon as the chemicals evolve to a point where they start working towards their own survival without any real reason for doing so.

For example, individual organic molecules started working together (For what reason? Perhaps to better their survival?) eventually forming the first cell.

The question is, what is the point of it surviving and why does it work towards survival?

The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.

Why not?

The essence of life has always been well outside of the reach of science, and if it wasn't we probably wouldn't have religion anymore -_-

Too bad most scientists disagree with you.
Nolite Timere
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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12/7/2013 11:39:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Something to do with being able to achieve a desired goal by using your mind, maybe?
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bossyburrito
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12/7/2013 1:14:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?"

Tell me how 7 billion people (remember that word - man is the rational animal) can live and eat and drink and survive without knowledge.

On "life", you seem to only be caught up because you're viewing living things on a sort of different plane than nonliving things. This isn't the case. All life is is those atoms being arranged in a certain way. There is no big "jump". It's just a simple case of the right conditions prevailing.
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bossyburrito
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12/7/2013 1:16:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Cells don't "work towards" anything on an individual level. They just do whatever cause-and-effect tell them to. It just turned out that they happened to survive. There's no mystical force behind things without conscienceness.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/7/2013 7:43:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Intelligence does have survival value. Just because it's not instinct doesn't make it any different.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival

Why do you say that?

so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

No. Not necessarily. It's no embarrassment to evolution for things to come about that don't have survival value. Certain properties could have come about by a direct result of others but not as a product of survival of the fittest. More like a bi-product of another property that was brought about by evolution. I still don't see how intelligence doesn't have survival value though.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Non-intelligent things don't possess intelligence in any sense of the word.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/8/2013 4:14:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 10:56:20 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 12/7/2013 2:10:08 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:24:41 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:21:47 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/7/2013 1:11:06 AM, Wren_cyborg wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:16:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

Evolution


I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Again, evolution.


Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's a bi-product of our intelligence, which is for human survival. It just so happens that our intelligence allows us to do things that aren't 100% for survival.


In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Nature doesn't need intelligence; it is complex and intricate all on its own.

Perhaps high-intelligence can be attributed to evolution, but life cannot be attributed to evolution ;)

No, Abiogenesis can.

No, it can't.

Yes it can.

"Be it on Earth or some other world, life had to begin via processes known as abiogenesis. Obviously, there must have been an evolutionary progression beginning with simple chemical compounds to proto-life, then to DNA-equipped life capable of replicating itself. As detailed in this text, those prebiological evolutionary steps may have taken place in submarine alkaline hydrothermal vents and required various chemical interactions and divisions involving amino acids, polyphosphate-peptide synergy, the creating of biosynthetic pathways and the emergence of sparse metabolic network, and the assembly of pre-genetic information by primordial cells, with some championing compartmentalizaton, others, vesicles, and all this leading to an RNA world in which viruses and retroviruses played an important part. The origin of life and evolution of prokaryotes was not a matter of chance, but deterministic, probable and necessary and that these bioenergetic principles are likely to apply throughout the universe "" - Michaell Russell (Editor), Nick Lane, Edward N. Trifonov, Pabulo H. Rampelotto, Stephen Freeland, John F. Allen, Eugenio Simoncini, Christof B. Mast , Andrew J. Pratt, Anne Volbeda

Life itself cannot be explained.

Yes it can.

There is no process in which something unintelligent non-living becomes something intelligent and living.

Yes there is, it is called Abiogenesis.

There is no middle ground, it just seems to happen as soon as the chemicals evolve to a point where they start working towards their own survival without any real reason for doing so.

The reason is natural selection drives it.


For example, individual organic molecules started working together (For what reason? Perhaps to better their survival?) eventually forming the first cell.

The question is, what is the point of it surviving and why does it work towards survival?

That's the way nature operates. We live in a very bizarre universe.


The essence of intelligence (life, consciousness) cannot be explained scientifically.

Why not?

The essence of life has always been well outside of the reach of science, and if it wasn't we probably wouldn't have religion anymore -_-

Too bad most scientists disagree with you.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/8/2013 10:05:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

The evolution of a species.

I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

Whose to say that isn't derived from survival instinct?

-Mathematics could have allowed primitive humans to judge their chances in a mass fight.
-Making observations in combination with memory would allow early humans to know what plants are edible, and what plants will kill them.
-Philosophy is probably a bi-product of the relatively large brain capacity in comparison with early humans.
-Experimentation would go along the same limes as making observations
-Theories might be a bi-product of man's naturally generalizing mind. We naturally want to generalize things, as that makes everything easier to remember, and the more you can remember, the more bad things you can avoid (referring back to the explanation for experiments and observations).

In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

What do you mean by 'disorder'?

Nature doesn't have intelligence, nature just gives you a random set of genes and says: "if you survive long enough to have kids, your genes get passed on. If you die, well then thanks for playing!"
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

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zmikecuber
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12/8/2013 3:32:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2013 1:16:47 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Cells don't "work towards" anything on an individual level. They just do whatever cause-and-effect tell them to. It just turned out that they happened to survive. There's no mystical force behind things without conscienceness.

Where does cause and effect come from? Why does Y regularly follow X, if they seemingly have no connections? X somehow entails Y happening, but Y isn't actually present in X...
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
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12/8/2013 3:35:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/6/2013 10:14:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
If intelligence wasn't endow from another intellectual being, then what is intelligence and where does it come from?

I'm not talking about survival instinct kind of stuff. I'm talking like the human ability to speak of mathematics, science, make observations, philosophize, conduct experiments, make theories, all of it.

Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?

Good questions, but does it really matter what the origin of intelligence is? Even if intelligence derives from some physical process, can't we still argue that intelligence is impossible to be entirely physical, even if its origin is in a physical process?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Sidewalker
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12/8/2013 6:24:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
True intelligence involves the ability to view and understanding widely different things from multiple different perspectives, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought.

It also follows logically that the contention that one can reduce reality to only one of its modes, to know it in only one of its forms, is an unintelligent claim.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
mookestink
Posts: 8
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12/10/2013 7:28:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
xXCryptoXx wrote:

Where does that ability come from? It has no relation to human survival so why would humans posses it? Doesn't evolution only pertain to helping species to survive?

It's quite arrogant (speciesist) to think that humans have a monopoly on intelligence.

Dolphins, for instance, not only appear to have language, but several different languages. Dogs can learn hundreds of words, and develop the maturity of five-year old children. Elephants can create works of art, and there is some debate on whether or not keeping them in zoos is a form of torture inflicted by humans on non-human intelligences..
In addition, if all life ultimately evolved from unintelligent things, does that mean that somehow nature possess the same intelligence humans do in some kind of disorder?
Your entire experience of nature comes through the lens of your own particular brand of humanity. Although it's possible that the universe mirrors you, it's also possible that the universe is weirder than anything you'll ever even be capable of knowing.
Shelley113
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12/10/2013 10:45:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
We are the seer, the watcher able to perceive mankind. We are that which perceives all.

Yes we as a species differ on a wide variety of physical, mental and genetic characteristics etc. but in all there is the seer. The 'soul' if you like, watching at the core as the body and setting it chose to live and mature with played out.

Whether there is conscious awareness
of the watcher of thoughts in our human mind varies dramatically just like the physical and external, as mental deviation may either have 'nature or nurture' at the source. Deviations however small will affect generalizing the capacity of the human mind.

However minds thoughts are watched. This central energy and seer of all is a universal human quality. The observations we make and act upon all have the potential to impact and influence, other inner energy's or 'souls'. Even those with the mental abnormalities that occur within our species, are of great importance. To open new opportunities and teach better understanding for those souls perceiving the affects.

We are rooted in a deep state beyond that which is perceived. Even thoughts are perceived. Who is the one observing? It is not you? Or do you believe you are that which you can perceive?