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Kant: how to derive the concept of force??

VolatileWorld
Posts: 1
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12/11/2013 4:30:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hi, I need help with Kant. How to derive the concept of force from the pure concepts of the understanding (categories)? Kant says it is possible to do so but does not show how.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/15/2013 6:16:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.

And so another thread gets derailed with zero constructive dialogue...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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12/15/2013 6:37:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 6:16:22 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.

And so another thread gets derailed with zero constructive dialogue...

He asked a basic question, I gave him a link. An arsshole called me a troll, I mentioned Noumena, and now wrich comes in here to insult me some more. Who's really derailing the thread?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/15/2013 6:41:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 6:37:06 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:16:22 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.

And so another thread gets derailed with zero constructive dialogue...

He asked a basic question, I gave him a link. An arsshole called me a troll, I mentioned Noumena, and now wrich comes in here to insult me some more. Who's really derailing the thread?

Apparently you did not think you were insulted, as you agreed that you were trolling. I was merely citing the consequences of your trolling.

I favorited this thread to see where the conversation would go, because I would like to see whether or not I should pick up Kant and start reading him. Instead, I get an unhealthy dose of your trolling.

Sdavio was wholly correct. I was originally going to just highlight his comment, as it is a sentiment I have repeatedly pointed out to you in the past, but I didn't want to derail the thread. Now that the thread has already been derailed by you, I have fewer inhibitions about pointing out the consequences of your poor behavior.

Finally, sdavio didn't insult you once in this thread, yet you found it proper to label him an @sshole. What is your problem, really?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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12/15/2013 6:46:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 6:41:45 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:37:06 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:16:22 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.

And so another thread gets derailed with zero constructive dialogue...

He asked a basic question, I gave him a link. An arsshole called me a troll, I mentioned Noumena, and now wrich comes in here to insult me some more. Who's really derailing the thread?

Apparently you did not think you were insulted, as you agreed that you were trolling. I was merely citing the consequences of your trolling.

I favorited this thread to see where the conversation would go, because I would like to see whether or not I should pick up Kant and start reading him. Instead, I get an unhealthy dose of your trolling.

Sdavio was wholly correct. I was originally going to just highlight his comment, as it is a sentiment I have repeatedly pointed out to you in the past, but I didn't want to derail the thread. Now that the thread has already been derailed by you, I have fewer inhibitions about pointing out the consequences of your poor behavior.

Finally, sdavio didn't insult you once in this thread, yet you found it proper to label him an @sshole. What is your problem, really?

Because he called me a troll?

Watch him respond.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/16/2013 5:02:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 6:46:55 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:41:45 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:37:06 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:16:22 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:09:11 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:08:25 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:07:36 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 3:06:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 12/15/2013 2:48:21 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 12/15/2013 6:46:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
I am basically guessing here; but force seems like a derivation from cause and effect.. That is, it's not an object itself but a relation of one thing 'acting upon' another.

At 12/14/2013 5:50:26 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
http://plato.stanford.edu...

If you understand something, you can explain it yourself.. posting links like this is just spam / trolling.

No, not really. Just ask Noumena.

Lol this again.

He called me a troll. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Trolls do as trolls do.

I may have deserved that.

And so another thread gets derailed with zero constructive dialogue...

He asked a basic question, I gave him a link. An arsshole called me a troll, I mentioned Noumena, and now wrich comes in here to insult me some more. Who's really derailing the thread?

Apparently you did not think you were insulted, as you agreed that you were trolling. I was merely citing the consequences of your trolling.

I favorited this thread to see where the conversation would go, because I would like to see whether or not I should pick up Kant and start reading him. Instead, I get an unhealthy dose of your trolling.

Sdavio was wholly correct. I was originally going to just highlight his comment, as it is a sentiment I have repeatedly pointed out to you in the past, but I didn't want to derail the thread. Now that the thread has already been derailed by you, I have fewer inhibitions about pointing out the consequences of your poor behavior.

Finally, sdavio didn't insult you once in this thread, yet you found it proper to label him an @sshole. What is your problem, really?

Because he called me a troll?

Watch him respond.

I didn't mean to call you a troll. What is your opinion on Kant's categories?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/16/2013 5:12:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
you know wrichcirw, you could just facilitate "meaning dialogue" yourself rather than always commenting on its absence.... there's a thought.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/16/2013 5:12:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
meaningful*
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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12/16/2013 5:17:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 4:30:47 AM, VolatileWorld wrote:
Hi, I need help with Kant. How to derive the concept of force from the pure concepts of the understanding (categories)? Kant says it is possible to do so but does not show how.

I assume we both agree that a Kantian category is a characteristic of the appearance of any object in general prior to being experienced.

Kant's notion of force is like the godly fabric that holds or makes everything around us active and governs all bodily motions and activities in the universe. Hence, I presume, Kant means that force can be deduced by Kantian categories such as order and liveliness(or physical animation) as those are, so to speak, dormant characteristics of an object according to the Kantian philosophy.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/16/2013 11:26:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 5:12:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
you know wrichcirw, you could just facilitate "meaning dialogue" yourself rather than always commenting on its absence.... there's a thought.

I favorited this thread to see where the conversation would go, because I would like to see whether or not I should pick up Kant and start reading him. Instead, I get an unhealthy dose of your trolling.

i.e., I did not plan on commenting on this thread to begin with. I intervened only after this thread went FUBAR in an attempt to reign in the offending party.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/16/2013 3:55:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 5:12:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
you know wrichcirw, you could just facilitate "meaning dialogue" yourself rather than always commenting on its absence.... there's a thought.

At this point though, I'm beginning to think a restraining order is the best option.

It's only with Eitan that I (quite literally) "always" have these meaningless conversations filled with insults and etc where constructive dialogue is absent, so if Eitan agrees, I know it will make my life more meaningful to not interact with him again.

I've already blocked him several months ago so this would be the next logical step.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/16/2013 3:58:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 3:55:28 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/16/2013 5:12:09 AM, 000ike wrote:
you know wrichcirw, you could just facilitate "meaning dialogue" yourself rather than always commenting on its absence.... there's a thought.

At this point though, I'm beginning to think a restraining order is the best option.

It's only with Eitan that I (quite literally) "always" have these meaningless conversations filled with insults and etc where constructive dialogue is absent, so if Eitan agrees, I know it will make my life more meaningful to not interact with him again.

I've already blocked him several months ago so this would be the next logical step.

lol he's that way with everyone. I think ignoring him is more effective than reacting to him (i.e blocking).
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault