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sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/21/2013 9:10:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that."
- Albert Camus

"It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

"There is a very popular opinion that choosing life is inherently superior to choosing death. This belief that life is inherently preferable to death is one of the most widespread superstitions. This bias constitutes one of the most obstinate mythologies of the human species."
- Mitchell Heisman (Suicide Note)

What do you think about these quotes? Is committing suicide a selfish, unforgivable act? Does the pain of living outweigh the pleasure? The suicide question posed by Camus seems one of the most important philosophical questions, but also the most difficult; especially in a non-religious context.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 8:39:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I really have never read a book so dumb as "The Stranger".

"The touch of a woman!" -------------lololololoooooooooooool
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 8:47:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to pose an alternative fundamental philosophical question. Um.... how about "What should I do with my life?" That'd subsume Camus' dumb question, wouldn't it? Owned, good game.

Seriously though, Camus was as deluded as they come. His insistence upon "No God" at the end of "The Stranger" was probably the most crybaby thing I've ever read. "Nothing matters!" he shrieks. Maybe it does, though ---and this consideration would tie into that subsuming alternative I have proposed.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/22/2013 9:24:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 8:47:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to pose an alternative fundamental philosophical question. Um.... how about "What should I do with my life?" That'd subsume Camus' dumb question, wouldn't it? Owned, good game.

Tbh I don't know much about Camus outside of that quote; but I think his question is more fundamental than yours - in the same way as "What game should I play on the xbox I'm going to buy?" would be a less fundamental question than "Should I buy an xbox?" If life is inherently 'more painful than it's worth' then the answer to your question of what to do with it would simply be 'reduce it's duration'..

Seriously though, Camus was as deluded as they come. His insistence upon "No God" at the end of "The Stranger" was probably the most crybaby thing I've ever read. "Nothing matters!" he shrieks. Maybe it does, though ---and this consideration would tie into that subsuming alternative I have proposed.

What matters, though, and according to what standard? Your question assumes that there must in the first place be a 'should' to life at all. Who decides what that is?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/22/2013 9:26:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 8:39:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I really have never read a book so dumb as "The Stranger".

"The touch of a woman!" -------------lololololoooooooooooool

The last line of that book still gives me chills -"For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate." Love it.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 9:29:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:26:10 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:39:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I really have never read a book so dumb as "The Stranger".

"The touch of a woman!" -------------lololololoooooooooooool

The last line of that book still gives me chills -"For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate." Love it.

You would --you're a f*cking idiot.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 9:30:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:24:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:47:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to pose an alternative fundamental philosophical question. Um.... how about "What should I do with my life?" That'd subsume Camus' dumb question, wouldn't it? Owned, good game.

Tbh I don't know much about Camus outside of that quote; but I think his question is more fundamental than yours - in the same way as "What game should I play on the xbox I'm going to buy?" would be a less fundamental question than "Should I buy an xbox?" If life is inherently 'more painful than it's worth' then the answer to your question of what to do with it would simply be 'reduce it's duration'..

Wrong --what is suicide but an act undertaken with your life?

Seriously though, Camus was as deluded as they come. His insistence upon "No God" at the end of "The Stranger" was probably the most crybaby thing I've ever read. "Nothing matters!" he shrieks. Maybe it does, though ---and this consideration would tie into that subsuming alternative I have proposed.

What matters, though, and according to what standard? Your question assumes that there must in the first place be a 'should' to life at all. Who decides what that is?

No, my question does not. My question only ponders on the possibility that something might matter. It covers all the bases, say, where Camus only imagines life and death.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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12/22/2013 9:39:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:29:05 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:26:10 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:39:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I really have never read a book so dumb as "The Stranger".

"The touch of a woman!" -------------lololololoooooooooooool

The last line of that book still gives me chills -"For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate." Love it.

You would --you're a f*cking idiot.

Thanks for reminding me that you're an impossible person. I had almost forgotten.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/22/2013 9:50:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:30:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:24:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:47:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to pose an alternative fundamental philosophical question. Um.... how about "What should I do with my life?" That'd subsume Camus' dumb question, wouldn't it? Owned, good game.

Tbh I don't know much about Camus outside of that quote; but I think his question is more fundamental than yours - in the same way as "What game should I play on the xbox I'm going to buy?" would be a less fundamental question than "Should I buy an xbox?" If life is inherently 'more painful than it's worth' then the answer to your question of what to do with it would simply be 'reduce it's duration'..

Wrong --what is suicide but an act undertaken with your life?

Seriously though, Camus was as deluded as they come. His insistence upon "No God" at the end of "The Stranger" was probably the most crybaby thing I've ever read. "Nothing matters!" he shrieks. Maybe it does, though ---and this consideration would tie into that subsuming alternative I have proposed.

What matters, though, and according to what standard? Your question assumes that there must in the first place be a 'should' to life at all. Who decides what that is?

No, my question does not. My question only ponders on the possibility that something might matter. It covers all the bases, say, where Camus only imagines life and death.

Alright, I think I get it - an open ended question rather than binary life / death. But I guess the broader question is, how should we know that that 'pondering' - the search for meaning - is worth it? That it actually leads anywhere?

Ie the nihilistic 'put in minimum effort' mindset could be equated with choosing 'suicide' at some level - being alcoholic, over eating, etc. all these things could be considered slow versions of suicide. I guess the question is really, what makes any choice more 'valuable' than another?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 10:16:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:39:20 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:29:05 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:26:10 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:39:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I really have never read a book so dumb as "The Stranger".

"The touch of a woman!" -------------lololololoooooooooooool

The last line of that book still gives me chills -"For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate." Love it.

You would --you're a f*cking idiot.

Thanks for reminding me that you're an impossible person. I had almost forgotten.

Don't try to appeal to me with stupidity, it's as simple as that. I'm not just intelligent --obviously.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 10:19:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 9:50:50 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:30:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 12/22/2013 9:24:41 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 8:47:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I suppose this is where I'm supposed to pose an alternative fundamental philosophical question. Um.... how about "What should I do with my life?" That'd subsume Camus' dumb question, wouldn't it? Owned, good game.

Tbh I don't know much about Camus outside of that quote; but I think his question is more fundamental than yours - in the same way as "What game should I play on the xbox I'm going to buy?" would be a less fundamental question than "Should I buy an xbox?" If life is inherently 'more painful than it's worth' then the answer to your question of what to do with it would simply be 'reduce it's duration'..

Wrong --what is suicide but an act undertaken with your life?

Seriously though, Camus was as deluded as they come. His insistence upon "No God" at the end of "The Stranger" was probably the most crybaby thing I've ever read. "Nothing matters!" he shrieks. Maybe it does, though ---and this consideration would tie into that subsuming alternative I have proposed.

What matters, though, and according to what standard? Your question assumes that there must in the first place be a 'should' to life at all. Who decides what that is?

No, my question does not. My question only ponders on the possibility that something might matter. It covers all the bases, say, where Camus only imagines life and death.

Alright, I think I get it - an open ended question rather than binary life / death. But I guess the broader question is, how should we know that that 'pondering' - the search for meaning - is worth it? That it actually leads anywhere?

And how do we know there isn't a life after death?

Ie the nihilistic 'put in minimum effort' mindset could be equated with choosing 'suicide' at some level - being alcoholic, over eating, etc. all these things could be considered slow versions of suicide. I guess the question is really, what makes any choice more 'valuable' than another?

Yes --why? Suicide is a choice.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 10:23:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just in case you haven't realised, Dylan, what you quoted couldn't have been anymore "crybaby".
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/22/2013 10:31:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 10:23:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just in case you haven't realised, Dylan, what you quoted couldn't have been anymore "crybaby".

What do you mean by "crybaby"?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 10:53:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 10:31:29 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 10:23:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just in case you haven't realised, Dylan, what you quoted couldn't have been anymore "crybaby".

What do you mean by "crybaby"?

There's just a complete "There is no God!" moaning to the entire text, that line Dylan quoted to be the icing on the cake. Camus makes absurdity of the world, and quite clearly. With Dylan's line, you see my fundamental question answered, and then bypassed for Camus'.
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2013 10:54:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 10:54:27 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
It is a comfort not to believe in no god, sdavio.

Also, to believe in no god, lol. Sorry, I'm drunk.
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2013 11:30:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
A Brief Synopsis of Albert Camus: "I am Alber Camus, waaaaahhh" lol, dude was such a f*cking retard. "This man is really good friends with a dog, wtfffffffffffffffff"
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2013 11:34:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"The touch of a woman! I saw her face in the prison wall, sweet memories! ...and that's why there's no god, I saw her face in the prison wall, f*ckers!"
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 11:35:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Gay people are just even more absurd than the absurd, I'm sure, Yeah, sure, I've not rationalised anything, just chose to view it all as utterly insensible, what of it???"
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/22/2013 12:54:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 9:10:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that."
- Albert Camus

"It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

"There is a very popular opinion that choosing life is inherently superior to choosing death. This belief that life is inherently preferable to death is one of the most widespread superstitions. This bias constitutes one of the most obstinate mythologies of the human species."
- Mitchell Heisman (Suicide Note)

What do you think about these quotes? Is committing suicide a selfish, unforgivable act? Does the pain of living outweigh the pleasure? The suicide question posed by Camus seems one of the most important philosophical questions, but also the most difficult; especially in a non-religious context.

I think suicide is a rather cowardly way out. However, I don't see any major ethical issues with it. They haven't done something "wrong" like a rapist. I just suggest to anyone who thinks about suicide to really think it over. I tried to kill myself at one point because I didn't think life was worth living. Then, I changed schools and was really popular there and my life ended up fine.

"Don't make permanent choices based on temporary emotion"

If it is just a "phase" the person is going through, then I would advise against suicide. If they have a terminally ill disease and their life is just going to be hell; do the person a favor and pull the plug.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/22/2013 1:31:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 9:10:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that."
- Albert Camus

Agree.

"It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

He's free to his opinion. Last time I ate a steak I didn't hear it scream at my face.

"There is a very popular opinion that choosing life is inherently superior to choosing death. This belief that life is inherently preferable to death is one of the most widespread superstitions. This bias constitutes one of the most obstinate mythologies of the human species."
- Mitchell Heisman (Suicide Note)

I think there are some torture scenarios that would convince most people that Heisman is right in such circumstances.

What do you think about these quotes? Is committing suicide a selfish, unforgivable act? Does the pain of living outweigh the pleasure? The suicide question posed by Camus seems one of the most important philosophical questions, but also the most difficult; especially in a non-religious context.

1) Selfishness is almost wholly irrelevant to your quotes above, unless you think that any focus on oneself is "selfish", i.e. excessive and narcissistic. I think the opposite is true, that focus on oneself is the only real way to reach practical and reasonable conclusions.

2) Suicide is unforgivable by the one committing it for obvious reasons, so one could say yes. However, there are many conceivable scenarios where suicide actually causes others to find their own lives to be "unforgivable", the perennial soldier jumping on a grenade being case in point.

3) Pain vs pleasure is wholly subjective and would vary case by case. Utilitarian analysis would be useful here.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 1:42:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 1:31:19 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/21/2013 9:10:09 PM, sdavio wrote:
"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that."
- Albert Camus

Agree.

You would, too. Oh, to be intellectually comatosed!

"It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

He's free to his opinion. Last time I ate a steak I didn't hear it scream at my face.

"There is a very popular opinion that choosing life is inherently superior to choosing death. This belief that life is inherently preferable to death is one of the most widespread superstitions. This bias constitutes one of the most obstinate mythologies of the human species."
- Mitchell Heisman (Suicide Note)

I think there are some torture scenarios that would convince most people that Heisman is right in such circumstances.

What do you think about these quotes? Is committing suicide a selfish, unforgivable act? Does the pain of living outweigh the pleasure? The suicide question posed by Camus seems one of the most important philosophical questions, but also the most difficult; especially in a non-religious context.

1) Selfishness is almost wholly irrelevant to your quotes above, unless you think that any focus on oneself is "selfish", i.e. excessive and narcissistic. I think the opposite is true, that focus on oneself is the only real way to reach practical and reasonable conclusions.

2) Suicide is unforgivable by the one committing it for obvious reasons, so one could say yes. However, there are many conceivable scenarios where suicide actually causes others to find their own lives to be "unforgivable", the perennial soldier jumping on a grenade being case in point.

3) Pain vs pleasure is wholly subjective and would vary case by case. Utilitarian analysis would be useful here.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/22/2013 1:44:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 10:31:29 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 10:23:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just in case you haven't realised, Dylan, what you quoted couldn't have been anymore "crybaby".

What do you mean by "crybaby"?

He means he's trolling and you're feeding him.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/22/2013 1:46:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hitler would've liked Camus --just saying. You know, he killed all those people, and then reneged on his first fundamental decision to live.

It's nice to believe you're completely in control, that nothing matters besides you. Horribly immoral, though, generally ... and, well, things might matter.
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2013 1:47:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 1:44:53 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 12/22/2013 10:31:29 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/22/2013 10:23:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Just in case you haven't realised, Dylan, what you quoted couldn't have been anymore "crybaby".

What do you mean by "crybaby"?

He means he's trolling and you're feeding him.

I'm not trolling, wrich. I read you right, didn't I? Why not Camus? Have you ever even read "The Stranger" bro?
AnDoctuir
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12/22/2013 1:51:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Again, things might matter, the possibilities are endless, yadda yadda. Some people just like to think it's all about them, and hey, that's their prerogative, I guess. That's not to say it's right, though ... and "Should I kill myself?" is obviously secondary to "What should I do with my life?" and so killing yourself has inherent grander implications than Camus would like to imagine --it's quite obviously not all just about you.