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Theta_Pinch's Razor(DDO name)

theta_pinch
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1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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1/20/2014 5:18:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

It think it's bound to be a controversial principle since "radical" is subjective. My sister in law thinks Calvinism is radical, but Calvinism was not radical to the Puritains.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
theta_pinch
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1/20/2014 5:33:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 5:18:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

It think it's bound to be a controversial principle since "radical" is subjective. My sister in law thinks Calvinism is radical, but Calvinism was not radical to the Puritains.

When I say radical I mean that as in outrageous as in these dictionary definitions: Extremely unusual or unconventional;
and greatly exceeding bounds of reason.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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1/20/2014 5:34:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 5:33:37 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 5:18:33 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

It think it's bound to be a controversial principle since "radical" is subjective. My sister in law thinks Calvinism is radical, but Calvinism was not radical to the Puritains.

When I say radical I mean that as in outrageous as in these dictionary definitions: Extremely unusual or unconventional;
and greatly exceeding bounds of reason.


"Outrageous" isn't much of an improvement, but "unusual" and "unconventional" are less subjective, I think, so that could work.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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1/20/2014 5:56:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
But here's the problem: It's not necessarily true.
For instance, let's say that the power went out all over the United States. You consider two possibilities:
A. Terrorist Attack
B. Aliens disable our means of defense again them
Clearly A sounds more logical. However, what if it really is aliens?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/21/2014 7:49:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.

As it was said before, I find your razor to be too arbitrary. Who decides what is unusual & radical ? This is open to just using the unusual and radical clause to reject something........because you don't like it.

Give an example where occams razor and theta razor would result in different conclusions.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/21/2014 7:55:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 5:56:45 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
But here's the problem: It's not necessarily true.
For instance, let's say that the power went out all over the United States. You consider two possibilities:
A. Terrorist Attack
B. Aliens disable our means of defense again them
Clearly A sounds more logical. However, what if it really is aliens?

occams razor would come to the same conclusion. The thing is that philosophical razors aren't always right.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/21/2014 7:59:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/21/2014 7:49:42 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.

As it was said before, I find your razor to be too arbitrary. Who decides what is unusual & radical ? This is open to just using the unusual and radical clause to reject something........because you don't like it.

Give an example where occams razor and theta razor would result in different conclusions.

I can't think of any......
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
AlbinoBunny
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1/25/2014 2:24:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.

AlbinoBunny's Razor; When presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power, the one with the highest Unassumption Factor is most likely to be correct.

(Unassumption Factor [awful name]; Each assumption which is made adds a chance of being incorrect. E.g. 1/2 for assumption A and 1/3 for assumption B, if you need both A and B then the chances are 1/6. This is why less assumptions are preferable. How radical an assumption is also matters; if assumption Z has a 1/13 likelihood, and assumptions A = 1/2, B = 1/2 and C = 1/3, then the assumption with A, B and C is more likely.)

Ultimately is is a combination of factors. How radical assumptions are and total number of assumptions.
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theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/25/2014 3:04:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 2:24:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.

AlbinoBunny's Razor; When presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power, the one with the highest Unassumption Factor is most likely to be correct.

(Unassumption Factor [awful name]; Each assumption which is made adds a chance of being incorrect. E.g. 1/2 for assumption A and 1/3 for assumption B, if you need both A and B then the chances are 1/6. This is why less assumptions are preferable. How radical an assumption is also matters; if assumption Z has a 1/13 likelihood, and assumptions A = 1/2, B = 1/2 and C = 1/3, then the assumption with A, B and C is more likely.)

Ultimately is is a combination of factors. How radical assumptions are and total number of assumptions.

Unassumption factor does sound terrible but I think the idea is pretty good.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Hematite12
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2/23/2014 4:18:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Occam's is objective, since number is objective, but theta pinch (lol) is subjective, as others have stated. You didn't really fix the problem of the subjectivity of "radical" by defining it; "unusual" is just as subjective. What are the criteria for what is "unusual"?

You could define the "usual" as what the majority of people believe, but this seems dangerous, as I would hate to say that an abolitionist had the BoP when they argued with slaveholders.
zmikecuber
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2/23/2014 7:03:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Interesting. I think you'd be better off showing that outrageous claims are actually a large quantity of not as outrageous claims, and then using Occam's razor instead. As said above, it seems that the terms used are subjective.

Also, isn't Occam's razor just that the simplest theory should be the one accepted?
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"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
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2/23/2014 7:04:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yay, Occam stated Occam's razor in latin: Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate

I'm happy now. :)
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Ipsofacto
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2/23/2014 9:47:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

Sounds like Occam with a dash of Popper.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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2/23/2014 9:50:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

I've never used a razor and been clean shaven in my life.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
johnlubba
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2/24/2014 12:25:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 2:24:18 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 1/20/2014 2:47:33 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/20/2014 1:30:52 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
I think a guy named Occam already thought of that.

No Occam came up with this: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the FEWEST assumptions is most likely to be correct.

Theta_pinch's razor: when presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power the one with the least RADICAL assumptions is most likely to be correct.

AlbinoBunny's Razor; When presented with two explanations of equal explanatory power, the one with the highest Unassumption Factor is most likely to be correct.

(Unassumption Factor [awful name]; Each assumption which is made adds a chance of being incorrect. E.g. 1/2 for assumption A and 1/3 for assumption B, if you need both A and B then the chances are 1/6. This is why less assumptions are preferable. How radical an assumption is also matters; if assumption Z has a 1/13 likelihood, and assumptions A = 1/2, B = 1/2 and C = 1/3, then the assumption with A, B and C is more likely.)

Ultimately is is a combination of factors. How radical assumptions are and total number of assumptions.

AbinosBunny's Razor is exceptionally good, but the Mach 3 Turbo is the absolute shizzle
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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2/24/2014 2:37:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 12:17:08 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theta_Pinch's Razor; it's a philosophical razor that states:
"When presented with two hypotheses with equal explanatory power the one that makes the least radical assumptions is the most likely to be correct."

What are your thoughts on it?

"Radical" means that it is outside cultural norms. This I feel could be a very, very problematic razor.
Such
Posts: 1,110
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2/24/2014 2:57:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hehe, that's cute.

Such's Theorem: The Theorem of Subjectivity

I propose that all things we experience in nature, all forms, both energy and matter (which are interchangeable, btw), change based on whomever is experiencing it, rendering the actual manifestation of physical phenomena subjective. ^_^