Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Marx

Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2014 10:15:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What relevance does Marx have today? What ideas of his do you agree with? What works of his have you read?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Kc1999
Posts: 1,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2014 11:11:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/7/2014 10:59:27 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
Marx has no relevance except to weed-smoking hippies.

#USA number 1
Just because he created communism doesn't mean he's not revelant. That man discovered something about capitalism that we all must take notice of.
#NoToMobocracy #BladeStroink
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2014 11:35:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/7/2014 11:11:11 PM, Kc1999 wrote:
At 2/7/2014 10:59:27 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
Marx has no relevance except to weed-smoking hippies.

#USA number 1
Just because he created communism doesn't mean he's not revelant. That man discovered something about capitalism that we all must take notice of.

And what is that exactly?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2014 5:08:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Marx wrote the book on capitalism. Any analysis of capitalism as an intellectual concept has foundations in Das Kapital.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2014 6:25:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/6/2014 10:15:15 PM, Noumena wrote:
What relevance does Marx have today? What ideas of his do you agree with? What works of his have you read?

I am a former socialist so I had better have had read Marx at some point! lol I have read "Das Kapital," "The Communist Manifesto," and I have read some of his articles that he wrote when he was a journalist. I think Marx had Pan-Germanism right and Germany unified towards the end of his lifetime. He also had universal suffrage right as well because it exists majority of European countries. In his lifetime, there were very few countries that had universal suffrage(France, Greece).

I think many of his well known predictions were made carefully and thoughtfully but in today's time we can see many of them were wrong. Marx was expecting to see worker's movements in the industrialized nations and saw them taking over the means of production. One of the most notable movements for Marx was the Chartists in Great Britain. These types of movements did not take over the means of production. Marx's ideas would be carried in non-industrialized societies(I.E Soviet Union, China, etc.). In this respect, his most popular predictions failed.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2014 10:53:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:25:27 AM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 2/6/2014 10:15:15 PM, Noumena wrote:
What relevance does Marx have today? What ideas of his do you agree with? What works of his have you read?

I am a former socialist so I had better have had read Marx at some point! lol I have read "Das Kapital," "The Communist Manifesto," and I have read some of his articles that he wrote when he was a journalist. I think Marx had Pan-Germanism right and Germany unified towards the end of his lifetime. He also had universal suffrage right as well because it exists majority of European countries. In his lifetime, there were very few countries that had universal suffrage(France, Greece).

The idea that universal suffrage definitely wasn't a Marxist idea. And it certainly wasn't an idea which he seemed to find particularly important.

I think many of his well known predictions were made carefully and thoughtfully but in today's time we can see many of them were wrong. Marx was expecting to see worker's movements in the industrialized nations and saw them taking over the means of production. One of the most notable movements for Marx was the Chartists in Great Britain. These types of movements did not take over the means of production. Marx's ideas would be carried in non-industrialized societies(I.E Soviet Union, China, etc.). In this respect, his most popular predictions failed.

1) I don't approach his thought singularly as a series of "scientific predictions" and think doing so obscures a lot of relevant subtleties and more "philosophical" points of reference found throughout his work.
2) The idea of bypassing the capitalist stage of development (which Lenin and Mao supported) wasn't a Marxist [read:original idea of Marx] idea. One could look at it as either an evolution of Marxist praxis or as a deformation of his insight, but it wasn't his idea proper.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2014 11:15:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's actually interesting to point out that it was the Mensheviks who said there needed to be a bourgeois (similar to the British and French) revolution before socialism could be established in Russia. The Bolsheviks on the other hand (Lenin and friends) argued that certain conditions present in Russia (the fact that Russia developed economically later than other capitalist powers intertwined bourgeois and proletarian revolutions) rendered a socialistic revolution necessary even if it was in a country in which capitalism hadn't fully developed (against Marxist orthodoxy).
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Ipsofacto
Posts: 164
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2014 11:44:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Marx's greatest contribution may consist of history, yet unwritten. Heilbroner makes a case that 21st century capitalism may look more like Marx than Smith.

Given that the GINI is out of the bottle, he may have a point.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2014 7:56:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/14/2014 10:53:45 PM, Noumena wrote:

The idea that universal suffrage definitely wasn't a Marxist idea. And it certainly wasn't an idea which he seemed to find particularly important.
Agreed, it is not a Marxist idea. In fact it could in many respects be considered an enemy of Marxism. It was one of the ideas Karl Marx espoused himself. It was fairly important during his time considering the 1848 Revolutions took place when he was alive. He wrote about universal suffrage quite a lot during his time in London.


1) I don't approach his thought singularly as a series of "scientific predictions" and think doing so obscures a lot of relevant subtleties and more "philosophical" points of reference found throughout his work.
Interesting point of view. I think of it as a matter of historicism since his ideas reflected a dynamic mid-nineteenth century as he was writing as a journalist.

2) The idea of bypassing the capitalist stage of development (which Lenin and Mao supported) wasn't a Marxist [read:original idea of Marx] idea. One could look at it as either an evolution of Marxist praxis or as a deformation of his insight, but it wasn't his idea proper.
Of course.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/15/2014 11:32:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/6/2014 10:15:15 PM, Noumena wrote:
What relevance does Marx have today? What ideas of his do you agree with? What works of his have you read?

This is such a broad question- Marx had a huge influence across many schools of thought.

I guess to pick up on just one aspect of Marx' theory- he claimed that capitalism contains irreconcilable internal contradictions that inevitably lead to crisis points and jeopardize the system as a whole. This is a conversation that is still going, especially in the wake of the recent global financial crisis.

There are also plenty of pro-capitalist thinkers who think that this criticism is at least partially true and provides the justification for market regulation or certain social policies to benefit the "lower" classes. Basically, a mixed economy helps resolve some of the instabilities of capitalism while retaining the essential structure of a capitalist economic system.

His historical influence might be more relevant than insights gained directly from his primary works. For example, Foucault and Baudrillard are extremely relevant theorists that are direct intellectual descendants of Marxism. Marx also laid the ground for conceptual frameworks useful in analyzing society, the economy, and power.