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C/R theory of thought

zmikecuber
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2/16/2014 8:52:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What's your guys' views of the computational/representational theory of thought (CRTT)?

The theory that the brain is the hardware, and the mind is the software that runs on the brain.

I think John Searle has some good responses to it. Particularly showing that it leads to the impossibility of meaning, and thus is incoherent and self-defeating.

Thoughts?
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"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Illegalcombatant
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2/16/2014 9:51:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/16/2014 10:06:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 8:52:49 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What's your guys' views of the computational/representational theory of thought (CRTT)?

The theory that the brain is the hardware, and the mind is the software that runs on the brain.

I think John Searle has some good responses to it. Particularly showing that it leads to the impossibility of meaning, and thus is incoherent and self-defeating.

Thoughts?

Sounds fair, but then how would consciousness fit in?
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zmikecuber
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2/16/2014 10:08:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 9:51:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:


That sort of reasoning seems to affirm the consequent when applied to the CRTT. It's not clear that he's actually arguing for CRTT in the first place.

Let me explain what I mean:

P1: If the mind is software, and the brain hardware, THEN affecting the hardware destroys the software.
P2: Affecting the hardware destroys the software.
C: The mind is software and the brain is hardware.

Whereas if you switch the p and q, and make this a modus ponens, it's not clear why P1 is true in the first place.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
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2/16/2014 10:09:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 10:06:36 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:52:49 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What's your guys' views of the computational/representational theory of thought (CRTT)?

The theory that the brain is the hardware, and the mind is the software that runs on the brain.

I think John Searle has some good responses to it. Particularly showing that it leads to the impossibility of meaning, and thus is incoherent and self-defeating.

Thoughts?

Sounds fair, but then how would consciousness fit in?

I'm not sure. I've only heard CRTT as a type of thought theory, not an awareness theory... Though I'm sure there would be people out there.

You could look up John Searle's Chinese Room thought experiment too.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Sswdwm
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2/16/2014 10:09:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 10:06:36 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:52:49 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What's your guys' views of the computational/representational theory of thought (CRTT)?

The theory that the brain is the hardware, and the mind is the software that runs on the brain.

I think John Searle has some good responses to it. Particularly showing that it leads to the impossibility of meaning, and thus is incoherent and self-defeating.

Thoughts?

Sounds fair, but then how would consciousness fit in?

In fact, I remember having a discussion with an gaming AI professor , and they actually have the reverse sorts of arguments.

One would also have to assume your zombie world argument is false I think. Since it's in concievable that two carbon copies of the same system cannot both be identically 'concious'
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zmikecuber
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2/16/2014 10:10:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
When I say thought theory, I mean as in how the reasoning faculty of the mind words... which seems a different aspect than the sensory/qualia function of the mind.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
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2/16/2014 10:15:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 10:06:36 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:52:49 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What's your guys' views of the computational/representational theory of thought (CRTT)?

The theory that the brain is the hardware, and the mind is the software that runs on the brain.

I think John Searle has some good responses to it. Particularly showing that it leads to the impossibility of meaning, and thus is incoherent and self-defeating.

Thoughts?

Sounds fair, but then how would consciousness fit in?

Though the Chinese room thought experiment isn't quite a defeater. It's just a sortof doubt-casting problem for the CRTT which can be answered.

But Searle's argument that what a computer is being entirely subjective is a defeater I think. I mean, a computer receives x and spits out y, without really knowing the meaning of anything. It just follows instructions. But lots of things do that all the time. If our mind were just like a computer, it's not really any different than any other mindless process, and would lack meaning. But if our minds lack meaning, then we've shot ourselves in the foot.

"All men are mortal" could just as well mean "It is snowing in Japan." There's nothing about the inputs or neural firings themselves which have meaning... they only have meaning as far as something intelligent assigns meaning to them. Lol, so if our thoughts are actually meaningless, any arguments to prove that are self-defeating.

#donerambling
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."