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"Transgendered" Crossfit Lawsuit

SovereignDream
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3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).
bubbatheclown
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3/9/2014 5:30:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).

I completely agree. That was a disturbing article, by the way.
zmikecuber
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3/9/2014 6:15:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).

That's kindof scary... next thing you know, you'll marry a girl, and then after you're married she'll tell you she used to be a man.

Holy f*cking titty sprinkles, this sh*t is scary.... :|
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Tophatdoc
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3/9/2014 6:24:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 6:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).

That's kindof scary... next thing you know, you'll marry a girl, and then after you're married she'll tell you she used to be a man.

Holy f*cking titty sprinkles, this sh*t is scary.... :|

This already happens. It happens on Jerry Springer quite often, then again that show is not "real."
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
zmikecuber
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3/9/2014 6:25:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 6:24:23 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/9/2014 6:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).

That's kindof scary... next thing you know, you'll marry a girl, and then after you're married she'll tell you she used to be a man.

Holy f*cking titty sprinkles, this sh*t is scary.... :|

This already happens. It happens on Jerry Springer quite often, then again that show is not "real."

Yeah, but... it's just disturbing seeing it and reading it. :P
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Tophatdoc
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3/9/2014 6:29:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 6:38:10 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
http://www.cnn.com...

So a man who has undergone surgical procedures to remove his male genitalia (and to more generally appear feminine) who considers himself a "woman" is suing Crossfit for disallowing him from participating in a women's Crossfit competition. Putting aside the fact that most crossfitters are weak GDI's, it seems to me to be another case in which we are dealing with someone who cannot distinguish between reality and his subjective delusions.

Meaning what? Well, meaning that, besides his attempts to appear more like a woman by removing his--err--plumbing, and so forth, the fact of the matter is that he is still a man, period. In other words, he can put on as much makeup as he likes and he can mutilate his body to his heart's content, but that won't change the fact that he is male. The question that comes to mind, I think is: "why bend the law to someone's delusions?"

We've already seen the law in California allow anyone who happens to "feel" like a woman (or a man) to enter a women's (or men's) restrooms. But, again, why should we let someone's subjective delusions impact how public policy and laws are made? I cannot think of any good reason. After all, I may feel African-American all I want, but the fact of the matter is that I am not. I may feel that I can bench 275 pounds but I cannot (yet; I'm repping 225 x 5 currently; you even lift, bro?). Similar to the African-American example, I may feel like a woman as well (I don't, FYI, cuz that would be pretty gay) but the fact of the matter is that I am a man (who can rep 225 x 5).

This would be a good strategy to remember for the Olympics and other sports. If you are a male and can't beat the best in your sport, become a woman and your chances of beating the best is significantly higher. A new way to breed female champions and raise the bar in female sports; I wonder why I never thought of it.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 7:14:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 6:43:17 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Stop whining and abolish gender already.

Lolwat? You high bro? Should we abolish gravity or the Pythagorean Theorem too while we're at it?
Wocambs
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3/9/2014 7:17:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:14:53 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 6:43:17 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Stop whining and abolish gender already.

Lolwat? You high bro? Should we abolish gravity or the Pythagorean Theorem too while we're at it?

It is my understanding that mathematics is something more than unnecessary cultural bullsh*t which serves to regulate behaviour.
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 7:20:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:17:43 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:14:53 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 6:43:17 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Stop whining and abolish gender already.

Lolwat? You high bro? Should we abolish gravity or the Pythagorean Theorem too while we're at it?

It is my understanding that mathematics is something more than unnecessary cultural bullsh*t which serves to regulate behaviour.

And yet I bet you're a nominalist. Are you really saying that I, for example, am not male? Or that, say, Muhammad Ali wasn't male? What exactly are you saying?
Wocambs
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3/9/2014 7:24:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:20:06 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:17:43 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:14:53 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 6:43:17 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Stop whining and abolish gender already.

Lolwat? You high bro? Should we abolish gravity or the Pythagorean Theorem too while we're at it?

It is my understanding that mathematics is something more than unnecessary cultural bullsh*t which serves to regulate behaviour.

And yet I bet you're a nominalist. Are you really saying that I, for example, am not male? Or that, say, Muhammad Ali wasn't male? What exactly are you saying?

A what?

I am saying that creating and propagating gender roles and accepted 'gender behaviours' is not an acceptable undertaking, being false.
SNP1
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3/9/2014 7:27:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:20:06 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
And yet I bet you're a nominalist. Are you really saying that I, for example, am not male? Or that, say, Muhammad Ali wasn't male? What exactly are you saying?

Have you ever met and talked to transgendered individuals? Do you understand their feelings? If you do not understand them then why do you think you have the right to judge them? If you do understand then why do you judge them?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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AnDoctuir
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3/9/2014 7:46:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 6:43:17 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Stop whining and abolish gender already.

Thanks man, thanks for being a sensible and decent guy.
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 7:49:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:24:44 PM, Wocambs wrote:
A what?

A nominalist? You know, someone who denies that abstract objects exist? Like mathematical objects, or indeed natures or essences, like humanness or manness or femaleness?

I am saying that creating and propagating gender roles and accepted 'gender behaviours' is not an acceptable undertaking, being false.

What do you mean by "gender roles" and "gender behaviors"?
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 7:52:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:27:03 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Have you ever met and talked to transgendered individuals? Do you understand their feelings? If you do not understand them then why do you think you have the right to judge them? If you do understand then why do you judge them?

What do you man by whether I "understand their feelings?" A male who has deluded himself to that he is a woman is not a woman; indeed, he is just a male with a sort of deficient identity. How, for example, is a man who mistakenly "believes" or "feels" that he is a "woman" different from a Caucasian man who mistakenly "believes" or "feels" that he is African-American or Chinese?
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 7:53:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:43:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I'm with SNP1 on this one. You realise that transgendered individuals do exist, right? It's not a made up phenomenon.

Yes, I realize that there are some men (and women) who "feel" like they are female. What I'm wondering is why the law (or corporations like Crossfit, in the instance) should bend to their delusions.
Wocambs
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3/9/2014 8:07:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:49:36 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:24:44 PM, Wocambs wrote:
A what?

A nominalist? You know, someone who denies that abstract objects exist? Like mathematical objects, or indeed natures or essences, like humanness or manness or femaleness?

I am saying that creating and propagating gender roles and accepted 'gender behaviours' is not an acceptable undertaking, being false.

What do you mean by "gender roles" and "gender behaviors"?

Abstract 'things' are concepts, not objects, and exist as such, surely. If A and B are contradictory, then this contradict exists, but only as a conceptual contradiction. Does that illustrate my position?

By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other. The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform.

Now why ought that pressure exist?
SeventhProfessor
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3/9/2014 8:11:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:52:06 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:27:03 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Have you ever met and talked to transgendered individuals? Do you understand their feelings? If you do not understand them then why do you think you have the right to judge them? If you do understand then why do you judge them?

What do you man by whether I "understand their feelings?" A male who has deluded himself to that he is a woman is not a woman; indeed, he is just a male with a sort of deficient identity. How, for example, is a man who mistakenly "believes" or "feels" that he is a "woman" different from a Caucasian man who mistakenly "believes" or "feels" that he is African-American or Chinese?

Do you think that men and women tend to have natural mentalities or personalities? If not, we'll go with your race example, and say gender's irrelevant. If not, do you believe whites and blacks have naturally different personalities?
#UnbanTheMadman

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SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 8:13:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:07:45 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Abstract 'things' are concepts, not objects, and exist as such, surely. If A and B are contradictory, then this contradict exists, but only as a conceptual contradiction. Does that illustrate my position?

Honestly? No, not really.

By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other. The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform.

Now why ought that pressure exist?

Isn't it just painfully obvious that men and women are indeed "biologically different"? I mean, need I commence a biology lesson here?
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 8:18:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:11:33 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
Do you think that men and women tend to have natural mentalities or personalities?

I'm not sure what you mean by "natural mentalities or personalities," but I think it is painfully obvious that men and women are different (and this needn't imply that one is "better" than the other).

If not, we'll go with your race example, and say gender's irrelevant. If not, do you believe whites and blacks have naturally different personalities?

Not necessarily, no. I think that "whites and blacks" tend to have different personalities, yes, but not because of any inherent reason due to "blackness" or "whiteness," but rather because of accidental reasons (e.g. where and how they were raised, how they are as individuals, etc.).

I'm not sure how that ostensibly undermines the analogy, though.
SeventhProfessor
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3/9/2014 8:21:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:18:21 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 8:11:33 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
Do you think that men and women tend to have natural mentalities or personalities?

I'm not sure what you mean by "natural mentalities or personalities," but I think it is painfully obvious that men and women are different (and this needn't imply that one is "better" than the other).

If not, we'll go with your race example, and say gender's irrelevant. If not, do you believe whites and blacks have naturally different personalities?

Not necessarily, no. I think that "whites and blacks" tend to have different personalities, yes, but not because of any inherent reason due to "blackness" or "whiteness," but rather because of accidental reasons (e.g. where and how they were raised, how they are as individuals, etc.).

I'm not sure how that ostensibly undermines the analogy, though.

Alright. Do you think gender is defined by your genitalia (which I assume you don't, as you claim surgery doesn't make you a woman) or the personality traits associated with being a certain gender? Or perhaps a third option?
#UnbanTheMadman

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"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
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Wocambs
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3/9/2014 8:26:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:13:27 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 8:07:45 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Abstract 'things' are concepts, not objects, and exist as such, surely. If A and B are contradictory, then this contradict exists, but only as a conceptual contradiction. Does that illustrate my position?

Honestly? No, not really.

Cool.


By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other. The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform.

Now why ought that pressure exist?

Isn't it just painfully obvious that men and women are indeed "biologically different"? I mean, need I commence a biology lesson here?

Are you this painfully stupid? Do you need assistance comprehending short paragraphs of argument? Need I commence an English lesson here?

"By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other."

Here Wocambs claims that people are expected to behave in a certain way not because of the necessities of their physiology, but due to cultural ideas about how they ought to behave.

"The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform"

Then he argues that these expectations become similar to rules, if not identical, in that there is both a pressure to obey, generated by human action, and a punishment for disobedience, generated for human action.

What he is attempting to say here is that there is a clear difference between actual biological difference and false cultural ideas of difference. False because they are a descriptive generalisation made a universal rule.
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 8:48:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:21:49 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
Alright. Do you think gender is defined by your genitalia (which I assume you don't, as you claim surgery doesn't make you a woman) or the personality traits associated with being a certain gender? Or perhaps a third option?

That's a good question. I haven't given it much thought. I suppose, as a good Scholastic, I'd say that one's gender is just the nature they instantiate. As far a more nominalist-friendly response goes, I suppose one's gender would be grounded in biology, if anything.
SeventhProfessor
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3/9/2014 8:57:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:48:51 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 8:21:49 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
Alright. Do you think gender is defined by your genitalia (which I assume you don't, as you claim surgery doesn't make you a woman) or the personality traits associated with being a certain gender? Or perhaps a third option?

That's a good question. I haven't given it much thought. I suppose, as a good Scholastic, I'd say that one's gender is just the nature they instantiate. As far a more nominalist-friendly response goes, I suppose one's gender would be grounded in biology, if anything.

Technically, the definition of gender is the personality traits, while what you are physically is defined as sex. Now, logically, doesn't it make sense that, in rare occasions, a male body may grow a female brain, and vice versa?
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
SovereignDream
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3/9/2014 8:57:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:26:42 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Isn't it just painfully obvious that men and women are indeed "biologically different"? I mean, need I commence a biology lesson here?

Are you this painfully stupid? Do you need assistance comprehending short paragraphs of argument? Need I commence an English lesson here?

Hahaha sorry I read your response whilst double-tasking. A thousand apologies.

"By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other."

Here Wocambs claims that people are expected to behave in a certain way not because of the necessities of their physiology, but due to cultural ideas about how they ought to behave.

"The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform"

Then he argues that these expectations become similar to rules, if not identical, in that there is both a pressure to obey, generated by human action, and a punishment for disobedience, generated for human action.

What he is attempting to say here is that there is a clear difference between actual biological difference and false cultural ideas of difference. False because they are a descriptive generalisation made a universal rule.

Hehe.

Anyways, you claim that "people are expected to behave in a certain way not because of the necessities of their physiology, but due to cultural ideas about how they ought to behave" but have you considered the possibility that these "cultural ideas about how they ought to behave" are grounded in an interminable fact, i.e. that men and women are different; in the nature of manness or nature of femaleness? I think it's hardly a societal coincidence that, since the dawn of times and in virtually all civilizations, men have been encouraged to seek to instantiate manly qualities whereas females have been encouraged to instantiate women-ly qualities. Yet these natures are not merely societal aberrations or coincidences themselves; they are true and real.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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3/9/2014 9:12:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:57:25 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 8:26:42 PM, Wocambs wrote:
Isn't it just painfully obvious that men and women are indeed "biologically different"? I mean, need I commence a biology lesson here?

Are you this painfully stupid? Do you need assistance comprehending short paragraphs of argument? Need I commence an English lesson here?

Hahaha sorry I read your response whilst double-tasking. A thousand apologies.

"By those terms I mean that presumably the reason for separate workouts (or whatever we're discussing?) is not that males and females are biologically different, but based on some cultural ideas about how men and women ought to behave by themselves and with each other."

Here Wocambs claims that people are expected to behave in a certain way not because of the necessities of their physiology, but due to cultural ideas about how they ought to behave.

"The generalisation of each biological sex's behaviour is made a rule, or a collection of rules. Breaking these rules is daunting in itself and results in punishment through social mechanisms; they act as a pressure to conform"

Then he argues that these expectations become similar to rules, if not identical, in that there is both a pressure to obey, generated by human action, and a punishment for disobedience, generated for human action.

What he is attempting to say here is that there is a clear difference between actual biological difference and false cultural ideas of difference. False because they are a descriptive generalisation made a universal rule.

Hehe.

Anyways, you claim that "people are expected to behave in a certain way not because of the necessities of their physiology, but due to cultural ideas about how they ought to behave" but have you considered the possibility that these "cultural ideas about how they ought to behave" are grounded in an interminable fact, i.e. that men and women are different; in the nature of manness or nature of femaleness? I think it's hardly a societal coincidence that, since the dawn of times and in virtually all civilizations, men have been encouraged to seek to instantiate manly qualities whereas females have been encouraged to instantiate women-ly qualities. Yet these natures are not merely societal aberrations or coincidences themselves; they are true and real.

Apology accepted, hah.

I didn't mean to imply that they were 'arbitrary' or picked out of a hat. You cannot place an advantage to society above the liberty of the individual, particularly since the advantage is likely to be one that benefits those at the top of the social hierarchy. If you reply with 'Oh but what if I want to express my liberty by killing everyone with my ENORMOUS SPARTAN PECS?' then you will be embarrassing yourself.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/9/2014 9:17:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't like to generalize, but I honestly think that transgender people may not be all there in the head. I could care less though.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/10/2014 8:02:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:53:14 PM, SovereignDream wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:43:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I'm with SNP1 on this one. You realise that transgendered individuals do exist, right? It's not a made up phenomenon.

Yes, I realize that there are some men (and women) who "feel" like they are female. What I'm wondering is why the law (or corporations like Crossfit, in the instance) should bend to their delusions.

http://www.newscientist.com...
Brainscans show that there is a difference between transgendered and non-transgendered individuals. Are they delusional? No. It is a real issue, not a delusion.
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