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Infinite Uinverses Would Suggest God Exists

pozessed
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3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:08:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.

That's speaking in a religious aspect.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If you're argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/15/2014 12:17:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:08:32 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.

That's speaking in a religious aspect.

How so?
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:28:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:17:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:08:32 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.

That's speaking in a religious aspect.

How so?

A " necessary sentient being" would be something you'd expect to hear about in a religion. See my soon to be response to Magic8000 as to why a sentient being isn't necessary but only possible and therefore probable.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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3/15/2014 12:41:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If your argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .

Just realized I clicked the wrong "your"
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:41:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If you're argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .

Aside from logistics I have no other proof.
Logistically speaking, if humans had an infinite amount of time and resources, we could possibly learn how to create a new universe. If we learn how to create a universe we may very well be able to control a universe given enough time.

There is a chance that humans aren't the most intelligent life form in this universe, so I think it is safe to assume that there is probably superior intelligence inside an idea of infinite universes.
If we can fathom the idea that creating and controlling a universe is possible, why would it be wrong to assume more intelligent life has not already done so?

We have the potential to terraform entire planets (notice I said potential), compared to civilizations which possibly have trillions of years of civilization and technological advancement we are drooling idiots.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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3/15/2014 12:46:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:41:26 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If you're argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .

Aside from logistics I have no other proof.
Logistically speaking, if humans had an infinite amount of time and resources, we could possibly learn how to create a new universe. If we learn how to create a universe we may very well be able to control a universe given enough time.

There is a chance that humans aren't the most intelligent life form in this universe, so I think it is safe to assume that there is probably superior intelligence inside an idea of infinite universes.
If we can fathom the idea that creating and controlling a universe is possible, why would it be wrong to assume more intelligent life has not already done so?

We have the potential to terraform entire planets (notice I said potential), compared to civilizations which possibly have trillions of years of civilization and technological advancement we are drooling idiots.

You're kinda moving away from the original argument and going into Nick Bostrom's simulation argument.

Anyway, it still may be physically impossible for that to happen. Meaning an infinite amount of universes does not entail the existence of some creator. There are too many ideas about what other universes mean to make your argument solid.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/15/2014 12:56:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:28:03 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:17:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:08:32 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.

That's speaking in a religious aspect.

How so?

A " necessary sentient being" would be something you'd expect to hear about in a religion. See my soon to be response to Magic8000 as to why a sentient being isn't necessary but only possible and therefore probable.

Probable doesn't follow from possible, but, w/e..
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:56:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:46:55 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:41:26 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If you're argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .

Aside from logistics I have no other proof.
Logistically speaking, if humans had an infinite amount of time and resources, we could possibly learn how to create a new universe. If we learn how to create a universe we may very well be able to control a universe given enough time.

There is a chance that humans aren't the most intelligent life form in this universe, so I think it is safe to assume that there is probably superior intelligence inside an idea of infinite universes.
If we can fathom the idea that creating and controlling a universe is possible, why would it be wrong to assume more intelligent life has not already done so?

We have the potential to terraform entire planets (notice I said potential), compared to civilizations which possibly have trillions of years of civilization and technological advancement we are drooling idiots.

You're kinda moving away from the original argument and going into Nick Bostrom's simulation argument.

Anyway, it still may be physically impossible for that to happen. Meaning an infinite amount of universes does not entail the existence of some creator. There are too many ideas about what other universes mean to make your argument solid.

Yea, but you're also making the assumption that universes which exist outside this universe must conform to the physics inside this universe. Am I wrong?
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:58:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:56:41 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:28:03 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:17:39 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:08:32 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:55:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

I think this is extremely misguided. God would be the grounding and creator of the multiverse. It doesn't seem clear at all that some contingent biological being who decided to manipulate reality based on finding in a loop-hole in reality or something would make the idea of a necessary sentient being any more plausible.

That's speaking in a religious aspect.

How so?

A " necessary sentient being" would be something you'd expect to hear about in a religion. See my soon to be response to Magic8000 as to why a sentient being isn't necessary but only possible and therefore probable.

Probable doesn't follow from possible, but, w/e..

So if I have an infinite chances to possibly win the lottery it's not probable that I will eventually win?
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 2:45:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
And seeing as I'm speaking hypothetical possibilities, it's really not hard for me to imagine God as some giant tree of energy whose leaves are all universes which are constantly being generated on the trees branches.
This tree has the ability to control it's most miniscule amounts of energy in whichever way it wishes. Think of electrons working as ants to do as the queen wishes.
Good and evil have no purpose in the will of this God, as it has complete control of everything within itself if it so wishes.

Sorry, I'm tired and a lil buzzed. But as I have said, these are just random thoughts.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/15/2014 9:08:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If an infinite number of universes exist, then (under your premises) an infinite number of intelligent life forms would have figured out how to "control the whole universe", in which case any one of them could hardly have created "God". You may be tempted to assert that "no, only the first one to do it would have" (since those that came after would necessarily be under their mandate), but this argument fails to reconcile the fact that in a domain of infinite universes, no single universe could be said to "have come first", because for any universe in such a domain, there are an infinite number of universes that came before and an infinite number of universes that came after.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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3/15/2014 12:05:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 12:56:43 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:46:55 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:41:26 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 3/15/2014 12:16:36 AM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 3/14/2014 11:27:58 PM, pozessed wrote:
This is just another of my random thoughts. Please bear with me.

If an infinite amount of universes exists that would suggest that their are an infinite amount of beings living inside an infinite number of them, just as there would be no life in an infinite number of other universes.
I come to this presumption of some universes having life and others not having life because there is an infinite number of chances for the universes to naturally have life or not have life.
If infinity exists and there is other intelligent life inside these universes it is probable that one life form in another universe found a way to control how all the universes work.
As long as there is a chance and there is an infinite amount of tries, the idea becomes probable.

Again, this is just some random thoughts.

If you're argument was true it wouldn't mean God exists. It would mean an infinite number of gods exists.

Anyway, multiverses =/= modal realism. It could be true that there are an infinite number of universes, but they operate under a variation of certain laws. It would make sense, what else would drive the creation of universes, why they exist, ect? So you would have to show that it is possible under this type of holistic universe physics to control all universes .

Aside from logistics I have no other proof.
Logistically speaking, if humans had an infinite amount of time and resources, we could possibly learn how to create a new universe. If we learn how to create a universe we may very well be able to control a universe given enough time.

There is a chance that humans aren't the most intelligent life form in this universe, so I think it is safe to assume that there is probably superior intelligence inside an idea of infinite universes.
If we can fathom the idea that creating and controlling a universe is possible, why would it be wrong to assume more intelligent life has not already done so?

We have the potential to terraform entire planets (notice I said potential), compared to civilizations which possibly have trillions of years of civilization and technological advancement we are drooling idiots.

You're kinda moving away from the original argument and going into Nick Bostrom's simulation argument.

Anyway, it still may be physically impossible for that to happen. Meaning an infinite amount of universes does not entail the existence of some creator. There are too many ideas about what other universes mean to make your argument solid.

Yea, but you're also making the assumption that universes which exist outside this universe must conform to the physics inside this universe. Am I wrong?

No, I'm not. I'm saying universes outside ours must conform to some laws. Not necessarily ours. Your argument assumes that too. If there can be a being that can control the universes, then there must be some force that links the universes.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
pozessed
Posts: 1,034
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3/15/2014 12:26:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:08:51 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
If an infinite number of universes exist, then (under your premises) an infinite number of intelligent life forms would have figured out how to "control the whole universe", in which case any one of them could hardly have created "God". You may be tempted to assert that "no, only the first one to do it would have" (since those that came after would necessarily be under their mandate), but this argument fails to reconcile the fact that in a domain of infinite universes, no single universe could be said to "have come first", because for any universe in such a domain, there are an infinite number of universes that came before and an infinite number of universes that came after.

I never claimed that these life forms created God, I am iimplying they possibly could gain access to controlling all of the universes which would make them a God.
As you mentioned though, there could be an infinite amount of these beings which have the knowledge to control universes, that doesn't mean that more than 1 of these intelligent life forms can't control these universes simultaneously.