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Arguments for Atheism

NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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3/22/2014 4:06:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

It's rather amusing that you repeat the same questions and always get the same answers. Are you struggling with your faith in God? Is there something I can do to help you?
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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3/22/2014 4:23:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

1. If God exists I would be sad
2. I am not sad
C. God does not exist

QED
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
http://www.debate.org...

The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
http://www.debate.org...

God most likely exists:
http://www.debate.org...
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 4:42:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 4:23:48 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

1. If God exists I would be sad
2. I am not sad
C. God does not exist

QED

Is your avatar not some reproduction of "The Scream?"
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 4:43:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I guess you don't have your mouth open, but it bears a funny resemblance to it all the same.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/22/2014 5:08:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.

lol okay bro.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 5:09:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:08:47 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.

lol okay bro.

Fail.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
etherealvoyager
Posts: 60
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3/22/2014 5:25:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

A pretty well known one:

1. There exist instances of intense suffering which an omnipotent, omniscient being could have prevented without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.
2. An omniscient, wholly good being would prevent the occurrence of any intense suffering it could, unless it could not do so without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.
3. (Therefore) There does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient, wholly good being. (Rowe 1979: 336)
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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3/22/2014 5:26:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:09:07 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:08:47 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.

lol okay bro.

Fail.

Omniscience does not require constant observation, as one only needs to know the initial state with perfect precision and accuracy (a single violation of Heisenberg uncertainty principle) to be able to know all future states, therefore negating the need to observe to know the state off the system at any time.

Right?
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
http://www.debate.org...

The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
http://www.debate.org...

God most likely exists:
http://www.debate.org...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/22/2014 5:27:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

This argument fails, as collapse is relative to the observer. Meaning that if everything is collapsed with respect to God's reference frame, that wouldn't mean it collapsed with respect to our reference frame. Another objection would be that it may be that only external observation that causes collapse (as that is all the evidence supports), but if the universe exists in the mind of God, then he would be introspecting, not doing external observation. Another objection is that being omnipresent doesn't mean he is all observing. Just because he is everywhere, doesn't mean he has to "look".
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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3/22/2014 6:09:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:09:07 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:08:47 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.

lol okay bro.

Fail.

A theist can simply argue that God metaphysically observes the world. I don't see a reason why we should assume that God's observation is identical to a human's observation.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/22/2014 6:32:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 6:09:28 PM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:09:07 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:08:47 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:07:51 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:05:23 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:26 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:02:10 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:59:03 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:56:44 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

Also ridiculous.

How?

Unsubstantiated definitions as regards interplay.

Where?

Observation.

Anything that observes a quantum superposition collapses its superposition. Look it up.

lol okay bro.

Fail.

A theist can simply argue that God metaphysically observes the world. I don't see a reason why we should assume that God's observation is identical to a human's observation.

I agree, but not the for the same reason. God definitely collapses wave-functions by observation, the thing is that collapse is observer relative.
Subutai
Posts: 3,172
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3/22/2014 9:38:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 5:27:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

This argument fails, as collapse is relative to the observer. Meaning that if everything is collapsed with respect to God's reference frame, that wouldn't mean it collapsed with respect to our reference frame. Another objection would be that it may be that only external observation that causes collapse (as that is all the evidence supports), but if the universe exists in the mind of God, then he would be introspecting, not doing external observation. Another objection is that being omnipresent doesn't mean he is all observing. Just because he is everywhere, doesn't mean he has to "look".

I guess that argument only applies to the monotheistic tradition god:

There is no creature hidden from God's sight. All things are naked and open to his sight. - Hebrews 4:13
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/22/2014 10:06:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 9:38:19 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 5:27:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/22/2014 4:49:24 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

This is just one of the many:

P1: The God-concept designates an omniscient and omnipresent " all-observing " being (i.e. its knowledge effectively observes all phenomena).
P2: Observation collapses quantum superpositions.
P3: An all-observing being would automatically collapse all quantum superpositions. (from 2)
P4: We observe that not all quantum superpositions are collapsed.
C: Therefore, God cannot exist. (from 1, 3 and 4)

This argument fails, as collapse is relative to the observer. Meaning that if everything is collapsed with respect to God's reference frame, that wouldn't mean it collapsed with respect to our reference frame. Another objection would be that it may be that only external observation that causes collapse (as that is all the evidence supports), but if the universe exists in the mind of God, then he would be introspecting, not doing external observation. Another objection is that being omnipresent doesn't mean he is all observing. Just because he is everywhere, doesn't mean he has to "look".

I guess that argument only applies to the monotheistic tradition god:

There is no creature hidden from God's sight. All things are naked and open to his sight. - Hebrews 4:13

Actually, I mentioned 3 distinct objections, or "arguments", I believe you only responded to 1.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/24/2014 12:42:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

It's amazing that you still don't know what atheism is.
Juris
Posts: 109
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3/24/2014 2:24:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
1. The burden of proof lies with religion. It is their burden to prove that God exists not the other way around.
2. Believers don't have credible evidence that God exists. They use faith to prove God but faith is simply unknowable and an absence of reason, meaning anyone can just argue with faith without explaining anything.
The Bible is not scientific nor historical meaning it is not credible. In fact, I find the Bible so humorous as it promotes slavery, discrimination, and other evil things. To use Bible as evidence to God's existence is like using the comic book to prove spider-man's existence.
Worst, believers use pseudoscience (fake science). They believe that the earth and human mind is so perfect and complex that it must have a creator. However, believers failed to establish the connection between complexity and God. Just to clarify this: the complexity of mind and the earth has already been explained in science terms.

Keep asking questions and you will understand that there is no God
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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3/24/2014 3:26:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

Depends on what you have in mind when you say "God".

Some arguments that work against some God propositions don't work on others.

At the very least what ever claims some one is making about "God" we can look at those claims and put them under scrutiny and bring up objections as to why they don't justify the belief in the God they have in mind.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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3/24/2014 4:24:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are no good arguments for positive atheism. Just as there are no good arguments for positive theism. The key here being that arguing in favour of either position presupposes that people could ever come to know or rationalise that which is beyond our ability to understand.
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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3/24/2014 7:23:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
How about:

1. A God that designed the universe would have made it, physically, perfectly designed
2. The universe, and life is imperfectly designed
C. God did not design the universe

It doesn't disprove God, but it does question one who's major attributes include omniscience and Creator.

Billions of other stars, including failed ones, black holes, dead planets, wasted gas clouds etc indicate a capricious God at best if Humans were the ultimate objective. Making something the size of the Milky Way alone is wasteful enough.

Then you have poor biological design, the human eye, birth canal, single breathing/eating opening, vestiges.

All of which could have been accomplished much, nuch more efficiently by imperfect human designers.
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
http://www.debate.org...

The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
http://www.debate.org...

God most likely exists:
http://www.debate.org...
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/24/2014 9:44:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:42:17 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:34:08 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
What good arguments are there for the belief that there is no God/gods? Is atheism just accepted on faith?

It's amazing that you still don't know what atheism is.

"HURR DURR IT'S JUST LACK OF BELIEF!!!! THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN UNBELIEF 4 SOME REASUN!!!!!"
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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3/24/2014 9:47:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Have you seen my car keys?"
"No."
"ARE YOU TELLING ME THEY DON'T EXIST?!?!"

Seriously... why so determined to parade your ignorance?
blaze8
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3/24/2014 12:41:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 7:23:56 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
How about:

1. A God that designed the universe would have made it, physically, perfectly designed
2. The universe, and life is imperfectly designed
C. God did not design the universe

It doesn't disprove God, but it does question one who's major attributes include omniscience and Creator.

Billions of other stars, including failed ones, black holes, dead planets, wasted gas clouds etc indicate a capricious God at best if Humans were the ultimate objective. Making something the size of the Milky Way alone is wasteful enough.

Then you have poor biological design, the human eye, birth canal, single breathing/eating opening, vestiges.

All of which could have been accomplished much, nuch more efficiently by imperfect human designers.

Isn't it possible God could intentionally and perfectly design an imperfect universe? A Perfect being is capable of perfectly executing the imperfect. This wouldn't undermine his status as objectively perfect, it would just make his actions imperfect from our perspective.
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."-Sterling Archer