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Epicurus

slo1
Posts: 4,318
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5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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5/7/2014 9:52:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

No thoughts?

I posted once in the religion section that I thought a perfect infinite existence would become dreary. Of course that is if time exists. I can only experience pleasure in the moment, thus why the amount of pleasure is equal if I have finite days versus infinite.

If I know I will have unlimited future days in the moment it devalues the pleasure, thus it stands to reason believing you don't have an infinite amount of time can bring great value to purpose and the amount one receives from pleasures in daily life.

Ironically this type of logic is often used to justify why God gave humanity free will, allowing evil rather than just creating the perfect heaven to start with.

How many a religious person has spoken that good can not exist without evil because if there is no contrast one can not really know good, love, compassion, etc.
Osiris_Rosenthorne
Posts: 82
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9/4/2014 3:56:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

Well, I suppose once the chemicals that give pleasure are used up, then the pleasure no longer exists. So yeah, in a sense, he's right. It's sort of akin to Solon, that the only way to have lived a happy life is to die happily.
I probably hate everything you stand for - and on.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/4/2014 4:07:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 3:56:19 PM, Osiris_Rosenthorne wrote:
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

Well, I suppose once the chemicals that give pleasure are used up, then the pleasure no longer exists. So yeah, in a sense, he's right. It's sort of akin to Solon, that the only way to have lived a happy life is to die happily.

You're not clever.
Osiris_Rosenthorne
Posts: 82
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9/4/2014 4:34:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/4/2014 4:07:41 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 9/4/2014 3:56:19 PM, Osiris_Rosenthorne wrote:
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

Well, I suppose once the chemicals that give pleasure are used up, then the pleasure no longer exists. So yeah, in a sense, he's right. It's sort of akin to Solon, that the only way to have lived a happy life is to die happily.

You're not clever.

Yeah, I know.
I probably hate everything you stand for - and on.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/4/2014 11:07:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

Pleasure must be defined to have meaning, and to be defined, it must have limits.
Skikx
Posts: 132
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9/5/2014 3:34:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 7:40:38 PM, slo1 wrote:
Unlimited time and limited time afford an equal amount of pleasure, if we measure the limits of that pleasure by reason.

I know that Epicurius advocated living for the moment rather than the future, but this is a deep statement. Can pleasure over a finite amout of time be equal to pleasure over an infinite amount of time?

Well, first one has to quantify pleasure.
So let's say a day full of pleasure equals 10.
Now let's say you will live 100 years. 36525 days. If half of your days are days of pleasure [P], that means 18262,5 P. Resulting in a total value of 182625.

However, it is highly unlikely that all of your days are P. Many of them will be days of misery [M].
If we apply the negative value of P to M, which is -10 and then assume that 50% of your days are M then the resulting emotional value is 0.

The number of days of full of pleasure [P] minus the value of days of misery [M] equals the emotional value of your life [E].

nP - nM = E

For a life of 100 years with a equal amount of days of pleasure and misery.

36525/2*10 + 36525/2* (-10)
= 182625 - 182625 = 0

If 10% are full of misery and 30% are full of pleasure, with 60% being neutral (0) , you get the following:

36525*0,3*10 + 36525*0,1*(-10) + 36525*0,6*0
= 109575 - 36525 + 0
= 73050

So overall, your life is pleasurable.

Now if you have an infinite amount of time, even if the tiniest fraction of your days are P or M, it will always ad up to infinity. So you have infinity - infinity = 0.

Unless you have a fixed amount of M, which is unlikely in with an infinite amount of days, it will always cancel each other out.

Only with a finite amount of time is it plausible to say that the amount of pleasure in your life is greater than the amount of misery, while infinity would on average be neutral.
However, in absolute numbers the amount of pleasure in an infinite life would still be infinitely greater than the amount of pleasure in a finite life.

On a different note, no matter how long your life is, you only ever live in the present.

The past only exists as memories and with time passing and more and more memories stacking up, it gets more and more blurry and you forget a lot of things.
While the future, especially the distant future is only an abstract concept, but nothing you experience, until it becomes the present.

Whether or not you are happy is measured by whether or not you are happy right now, not by whether you were happy last year or will be happy in the next. If you are happy today, you are happy. It doesn't matter if it is your first day or your 10000th, whether it is your last or if infinitely more are to come.

So one day can offer the same pleasure, misery and all other emotions as infinity.