Total Posts:2|Showing Posts:1-2
Jump to topic:

The Big Bang requires a transcendent cause

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 4:12:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Causes precede their effects. We know this by the basic cause and effect structure of our universe. Therefore, it is a logical inference to say that everything that begins to exist requires a cause. But is this true?

On the quantum level, virtual particles are observed to spontaneously pop into existence. So, seemingly, everything that begins to exist doesn't require a cause. I say seemingly because quantum mechanics are generally not understood very well at this time and there very well could be a cause for these particles.

So if something can spontaneously begin to exist, why couldn't the universe?

We know that a cause cannot be the cause of it's own existence. EX: a cake doesn't make itself because it requires a maker. What about simultaneous causality? The problem with simultaneous causality is that every example of this requires a cause for simultaneous causality to occur. When a person sits and his legs form a lap, this a simultaneous cause but only because it's the result of the first cause, which is of the person sitting. The cause required for simultaneous causality is what I'll refer to as a necessary precondition. This means that something is required in order for something else to happen.

The Big Bang was the moment in which all space, time, matter and energy was created.
Given that simultaneous causality requires a prior cause, it does not occur without this necessary precondition. Quantum fluctuations, vacuums, natural laws, or any other thing in the material universe requires space, time, matter or energy in order to exist. Thus, since a cause cannot cause itself and simultaneous causation doesn't occur without a prior cause, the cause of the Big Bang must be transcendent of space, time, matter, and energy.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 6:56:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 4:12:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Causes precede their effects. We know this by the basic cause and effect structure of our universe. Therefore, it is a logical inference to say that everything that begins to exist requires a cause. But is this true?

On the quantum level, virtual particles are observed to spontaneously pop into existence. So, seemingly, everything that begins to exist doesn't require a cause. I say seemingly because quantum mechanics are generally not understood very well at this time and there very well could be a cause for these particles.

This seems to be an argument ad ignorantum.

So if something can spontaneously begin to exist, why couldn't the universe?

We know that a cause cannot be the cause of it's own existence. EX: a cake doesn't make itself because it requires a maker. What about simultaneous causality? The problem with simultaneous causality is that every example of this requires a cause for simultaneous causality to occur. When a person sits and his legs form a lap, this a simultaneous cause but only because it's the result of the first cause, which is of the person sitting. The cause required for simultaneous causality is what I'll refer to as a necessary precondition. This means that something is required in order for something else to happen.

The Big Bang was the moment in which all space, time, matter and energy was created.

If you accept this then SNP1's argument in his debate vs you seems to be a defeater.

P1. All causes precede effects
P2. The universe & time began simultaneously
P3. There cannot be a cause before time began
C. The universe cannot have a cause

Or something like that. You pretty much affirm all these premises except P3 in your above posts.

Given that simultaneous causality requires a prior cause, it does not occur without this necessary precondition. Quantum fluctuations, vacuums, natural laws, or any other thing in the material universe requires space, time, matter or energy in order to exist. Thus, since a cause cannot cause itself and simultaneous causation doesn't occur without a prior cause, the cause of the Big Bang must be transcendent of space, time, matter, and energy.

Then you have a spaceless, timeless, matter less, energy less something. You're still a long way from demonstrating what you want to demonstrate :-p