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Is it possible for the universe to be eternal

Fanath
Posts: 830
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6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?
Dude... Stop...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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6/2/2014 7:55:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Since there is no real time scale external to reality, there is no extrinsic point in time at which the moment of creation can defined. Thus, questions like "when did the universe begin" are invalid. If the universe were not eternal, this would imply that there was a time "before" the universe, which is absurd. Ergo, the hypothesis is false.
tbhidc
Posts: 84
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6/2/2014 9:40:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM, Fanath wrote:
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?

Metaphysically, I think that the universe could be past eternal.

But I think physics points that even thought the universe *might* have been past eternal, it's not.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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6/2/2014 9:42:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 9:40:19 PM, tbhidc wrote:
At 6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM, Fanath wrote:
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?

Metaphysically, I think that the universe could be past eternal.

But I think physics points that even thought the universe *might* have been past eternal, it's not.

As far as physics is concerned, I thought that it suggested the universe points toward a singularity (Big Bang theory), but we don't have any idea of what was before that.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/2/2014 10:15:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What did God do before he created the universe?

A: He was preparing hell for people who asked such questions -_-

I think that what is must be what was and what will be.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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6/3/2014 3:25:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:55:23 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Since there is no real time scale external to reality, there is no extrinsic point in time at which the moment of creation can defined. Thus, questions like "when did the universe begin" are invalid. If the universe were not eternal, this would imply that there was a time "before" the universe, which is absurd. Ergo, the hypothesis is false.

This semantic game is the only answer people who want a non created universe have. But look how an Atheist changes side so fast.

Theist: Was the big bang the start of this universe. Science says it was the start of time and spacial dimensions?

Atheist: But the energy of the universe was always here, expanding contracting.

Theist: What evidence do you have of previous expanding universe or a mechanism for the universe to crunch back to a singularity again?

Atheist: None. But let us assume your book of myths is right, and the universe was created. We have observed particles and anti-particles coming from nothing and reacting to produce a lot of energy. That could be how the universe was made.

Theist: But I thought the 1st law of thermodynamics said Energy/Matter could never be created?

Atheist: You goat-herding believer, The energy and matter made equal each other out so the combined energy of the universe is still Zero. I already told you this has happened in a laboratory.

Theist: but the laboratory and those particles are inside this universe, Can you really say what happens inside the universe is how the universe as a whole happens?

Atheist: That how science works we conduct experiments like a computer simulation, or with lasers and then extrapolate how it effects bigger more complicated things.

Theist: Well what caused the emergence of the universe from nothing in the manner you speak of? Everything we see has a cause to every effect.

Atheist: you dope just because you see cause-effect inside the universe does not mean the universe needs a cause.

Theist: The knowledge of mankind never ceases to be selective.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/3/2014 3:38:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM, Fanath wrote:
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?

I don't know, there are multiple models, which go either way. I think most models consistent with the data take a depiction of time that is rather counter intuitive. In that there is no time 'before' the Big Bang, but there is no 'beginning' as it is akin to the North Pole,nowhere it's just a place where all north running lines meet, rather than a place where they begin.

In other words, the universe is quite possible self-contained, with about as much of a beginning as a sphere has a corner.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/3/2014 6:56:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM, Fanath wrote:
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?

There's certainly no consensus opinion on the subject, but a lot of people consider it logically impossible because you can't traverse an infinite, which is to say that if the past were infinite then we could never have reached the present.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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6/3/2014 10:05:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:09:52 PM, Fanath wrote:
I thought this was already disproven, but I can't seem to find many convincing arguments disproving it. Could someone help me out here?

Am I wrong that it had been disproven?

I believe the universe is both eternal and temporal. If time's being movement through space, or change, movement only makes sense, in the context of that which is static. You may say all things are in motion, however, at different velocities; and, I would readily agree; nevertheless, the most imperceptible vibration is still relative to that which is imperceptible to a greater degree, until all which is perceptible is defined by that which is imperceptible.