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The Fundamental Nature of Reality... Trivial?

Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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6/12/2014 8:46:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

Is it trivial, or is it our only escape from the trivial?
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/12/2014 8:48:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

I agree that practically speaking, it's completely pointless. However, this is not always the case. Often times when we get a new philosophy, our behavior towards reality changes since our beliefs about reality have changed.

I think this is best shown in moral philosophy though. If I come to the conclusion that it's not good for me to chew or smoke cigs or drink beer, this is going to influence my behavior.

On the othe rhand, even if such things as metaphysics may be practically useless, the desire to know the truth is still what makes us human. Humans have been distinguished from other animals as rational beings. Beings which have intellects, can understand and grasp concepts. Since the very reason we *have* an intellect is to grasp the truth, it follows that it is a fulfillment of our human nature to grasp the truth.

So knowing the truth about reality fulfills our human nature. Which makes us a "better" human. And of course, being a Catholic, I think that since our highest faculties is our rationality, and God is the highest truth, this is essentially what the beatific vision is. A fulfillment of our intellect in directly seeing God. However God is also love, so it's also a fulfillment of our wills.

That's my two cents.

tldr version:

Yes, it's practically useless, but it's still cool and good to pursue the truth.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/12/2014 8:51:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

There is nothing wrong with a little mental masturbation to go with your daily dose of friends, life and sex.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/12/2014 9:03:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:48:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

I agree that practically speaking, it's completely pointless. However, this is not always the case. Often times when we get a new philosophy, our behavior towards reality changes since our beliefs about reality have changed.

I think this is best shown in moral philosophy though. If I come to the conclusion that it's not good for me to chew or smoke cigs or drink beer, this is going to influence my behavior.

First of all, that doesn't really have to do with moral philosophy, that is just basic health. Secondly, it doesn't matter whether morality is subjective or objective; I'm still not going to rape women. It doesn't matter whether it is subjective or objective, my moral life is going to be the same.


On the othe rhand, even if such things as metaphysics may be practically useless, the desire to know the truth is still what makes us human.

Yes, but once we know this truth... then what? How is that going to help us?

Humans have been distinguished from other animals as rational beings. Beings which have intellects, can understand and grasp concepts. Since the very reason we *have* an intellect is to grasp the truth, it follows that it is a fulfillment of our human nature to grasp the truth.

So knowing the truth about reality fulfills our human nature. Which makes us a "better" human. And of course, being a Catholic, I think that since our highest faculties is our rationality, and God is the highest truth, this is essentially what the beatific vision is. A fulfillment of our intellect in directly seeing God. However God is also love, so it's also a fulfillment of our wills.

That's my two cents.

tldr version:

Yes, it's practically useless, but it's still cool and good to pursue the truth.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/12/2014 9:04:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:51:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

There is nothing wrong with a little mental masturbation to go with your daily dose of friends, life and sex.

I'm starting to think that is all it is, mental masturbation.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/12/2014 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 9:03:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:48:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

I agree that practically speaking, it's completely pointless. However, this is not always the case. Often times when we get a new philosophy, our behavior towards reality changes since our beliefs about reality have changed.

I think this is best shown in moral philosophy though. If I come to the conclusion that it's not good for me to chew or smoke cigs or drink beer, this is going to influence my behavior.

First of all, that doesn't really have to do with moral philosophy, that is just basic health. Secondly, it doesn't matter whether morality is subjective or objective; I'm still not going to rape women. It doesn't matter whether it is subjective or objective, my moral life is going to be the same.


Not necessarily. If you came to the conclusion that watching porn was immoral, or something like that, you'd probably try to change your habits.


On the othe rhand, even if such things as metaphysics may be practically useless, the desire to know the truth is still what makes us human.

Yes, but once we know this truth... then what? How is that going to help us?


It doesn't help us practically speaking, but it's just good for us given our very human nature as rational beings. It's like happiness... what good is happiness? how is it going to help us? Knowledge of the truth isn't a means... it's an end in itself.

Humans have been distinguished from other animals as rational beings. Beings which have intellects, can understand and grasp concepts. Since the very reason we *have* an intellect is to grasp the truth, it follows that it is a fulfillment of our human nature to grasp the truth.

So knowing the truth about reality fulfills our human nature. Which makes us a "better" human. And of course, being a Catholic, I think that since our highest faculties is our rationality, and God is the highest truth, this is essentially what the beatific vision is. A fulfillment of our intellect in directly seeing God. However God is also love, so it's also a fulfillment of our wills.

That's my two cents.

tldr version:

Yes, it's practically useless, but it's still cool and good to pursue the truth.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/12/2014 9:18:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 9:05:52 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/12/2014 9:03:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:48:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

I agree that practically speaking, it's completely pointless. However, this is not always the case. Often times when we get a new philosophy, our behavior towards reality changes since our beliefs about reality have changed.

I think this is best shown in moral philosophy though. If I come to the conclusion that it's not good for me to chew or smoke cigs or drink beer, this is going to influence my behavior.

First of all, that doesn't really have to do with moral philosophy, that is just basic health. Secondly, it doesn't matter whether morality is subjective or objective; I'm still not going to rape women. It doesn't matter whether it is subjective or objective, my moral life is going to be the same.


Not necessarily. If you came to the conclusion that watching porn was immoral, or something like that, you'd probably try to change your habits.

Well I just rubbed one out to Bridget the Midget, and I feel no guilt at all!



On the othe rhand, even if such things as metaphysics may be practically useless, the desire to know the truth is still what makes us human.

Yes, but once we know this truth... then what? How is that going to help us?


It doesn't help us practically speaking, but it's just good for us given our very human nature as rational beings. It's like happiness... what good is happiness? how is it going to help us? Knowledge of the truth isn't a means... it's an end in itself.

Happiness is the only thing that matters. Or more broadly speaking; positive conscious states. I suppose if knowing metaphysical truths makes you happy, then in that sense, it has a use.


Humans have been distinguished from other animals as rational beings. Beings which have intellects, can understand and grasp concepts. Since the very reason we *have* an intellect is to grasp the truth, it follows that it is a fulfillment of our human nature to grasp the truth.

So knowing the truth about reality fulfills our human nature. Which makes us a "better" human. And of course, being a Catholic, I think that since our highest faculties is our rationality, and God is the highest truth, this is essentially what the beatific vision is. A fulfillment of our intellect in directly seeing God. However God is also love, so it's also a fulfillment of our wills.

That's my two cents.

tldr version:

Yes, it's practically useless, but it's still cool and good to pursue the truth.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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6/12/2014 10:10:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

It might sound like nothing more than mental masturbation, until you try living without it.
n7
Posts: 1,360
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6/13/2014 2:56:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 9:04:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:51:48 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:38:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At the end of the day, I still have to go to work everyday, still have to pay bills, still going to have sex, still going to hang out with friends and enjoy life... no matter whether Idealism, Dualism, or Materialism is true for example. It just seems to me that life is going to be the same anyway, no matter whether or not there is an external world, or whether we are brains in vats. It's all going to feel the same. So, what is the point about arguing about the fundamental nature of reality? It doesn't matter what it is, our lives aren't really going to change. Am I off my rocker?

There is nothing wrong with a little mental masturbation to go with your daily dose of friends, life and sex.

I'm starting to think that is all it is, mental masturbation.

If it's mental masturbation, then does that mean we're having mental sex in my thead about idealism?
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Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.