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The Natural Order

R0b1Billion
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7/17/2014 12:16:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Matter is not made of Matter." Hans-Peter Durr from the Max Planck Institute (prof of Physics).

We once thought of a table as "solid." The advent of the telescope allowed us the insight that the table is not solid, it is very porous and only appears solid because of our perspective (or more specifically, lack thereof).

But the stuff that makes the table is solid! (We assumed).

The table turns out to be made of molecules, in turn made up of atoms. But the atoms are solid!

Atoms turned out to be 99.999...% empty space. But the nucleus is solid!

Protons and electrons, once thought of as "particles" (of solid matter) are now turning out to be nothing but values in a wave equation, with no form or substance and even no concrete existence to begin with (even assuming they aren't solid). A proton's existence has more to do with whether you bothered to observe it (or I should say "try and observe it," as you can never directly observe matter) than a discrete existence in and of itself. What we think of as "matter" is nothing more than a "representation" in the mind, of what it is representing we may never know.

2500 Years ago Plato spoke of the world of forms and how what we see are imperfect representations of perfect objects that are beyond our mental and physical apprehension. 200 Years ago Immanuel Kant made the distinction between Noumenon (that which is perceived) and Phenomenon (that which is represented) as a vehicle to deliver the message that reality is not what it appears to be.

Neither of these great thinkers had scientific data to rely on to back their ideas, yet many years after they are dead and gone science is confirming what they believed. How could they have been so intelligent and insightful as to be so far ahead of the science at the time? Are they still many centuries ahead of what our science will eventually tell us?

We often base our worldviews off of current scientific theory, making our philosophy time-dependent. You all believe what you believe not because of any great efforts on your part to discover truth, but simply because you are riding the scientific wave and will never jump ahead of that wave. Somebody 100 years from now will have a much stronger belief-system than you... but thinkers like Plato and Kant will still not only be ahead of you, but also the people in the future. I would not have climbed aboard without the physical evidence, but now that I am here, I am launching myself away from being merely a 21st-century American, such attributes only limit me by closing my gates of perspective. If I reach truth, then my existence should depend little on the time and place I was born. Indeed, Plato and Kant would have come to these conclusions, because of strong intellect and faith, regardless of the progress and culture of everybody around them.

As children and young adults, the mind should be tempered with evidence-based thinking. The mind is too fanciful and unrefined at this point. But once strong principles of reason are established, the next level is achievement of reason that does not depend on evidence. For instance, should I get married and have children? I can't do a bio/psychological analysis to answer this, and I also don't want to go to the other extreme and simply follow raw emotion (or I'll be divorced very soon!). Such questions are beyond evidence and emotion, they exist in a place where only your faith in the natural order, if you will, can give you answers. Physics shows a piece of the natural order. Psychology does as well... morality and other disciplines help round it out, and as someone ages they get a better and better idea of just how the world works, not because of any one discipline, but because of all the data they've created from a life full of experiences here in this universe.

Plato and Kant are ahead of modern scientists today (and perhaps always will be) simply because they had the presence of mind to disregard culture and science and focus in on the natural order of the universe. When one discovers this order, they have tapped into a source of knowledge far greater than the sum of all human knowledge.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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7/17/2014 3:55:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 12:16:02 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:

I really don't buy this 'quantum physics proves idealism' charade. As far as I'm aware Plato's forms were more about explaining the nature of the properties of things rather than metaphysics anyway.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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7/17/2014 5:42:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 3:55:36 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 7/17/2014 12:16:02 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:

I really don't buy this 'quantum physics proves idealism' charade. As far as I'm aware Plato's forms were more about explaining the nature of the properties of things rather than metaphysics anyway.

Philosophy = 5 inquiries: epistemology, ethics, logic, aesthetics, and metaphysics. If this isn't metaphysical theory then what is it? Epistemology?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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7/17/2014 5:43:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 12:43:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Interesting post

Youtube: "Primacy of Consciousness"
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.