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Argument For Idealism using...

Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

What is dualism?
Nolite Timere
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/18/2014 4:12:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

Hey look! I can make an argument for Physicalism using Idealist and dualist premises!

P1) The mental and physical are of the same substance (monism)
P2) A physical world exists
C) Mind is physical

Idealists would agree with P1, and Dualists would agree with P2.

*shots fired*
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/18/2014 11:14:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 4:12:02 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

Hey look! I can make an argument for Physicalism using Idealist and dualist premises!

P1) The mental and physical are of the same substance (monism)
P2) A physical world exists
C) Mind is physical

Idealists would agree with P1, and Dualists would agree with P2.

*shots fired*

Except, Idealists would not agree with P1, as P1 assumes a physical reality. Idealists argue that only the mental exists, so when you say "the mental and the physical" then that automatically rules Idealism out.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?
Nolite Timere
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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7/19/2014 2:33:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

You mean "cite"
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/19/2014 10:32:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.

I understand. That's what I figured dualism was, but I didn't know for sure.
Nolite Timere
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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7/20/2014 2:41:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/19/2014 10:32:43 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.

I understand. That's what I figured dualism was, but I didn't know for sure.

Yeah, and then materialism/idealism and neutral monism are all different. Materialism says its only matter, idealism says its only mind, and neutral monism says its neither mind nor matter, but every thing is something neutral or "in between".
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/20/2014 6:15:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 2:41:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:43 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.

I understand. That's what I figured dualism was, but I didn't know for sure.

Yeah, and then materialism/idealism and neutral monism are all different. Materialism says its only matter, idealism says its only mind, and neutral monism says its neither mind nor matter, but every thing is something neutral or "in between".

Interesting. Does Dualism tend to be connected with religious belief?

Also, what is Pluralism?
Nolite Timere
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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7/20/2014 10:17:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 6:15:14 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:41:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:43 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.

I understand. That's what I figured dualism was, but I didn't know for sure.

Yeah, and then materialism/idealism and neutral monism are all different. Materialism says its only matter, idealism says its only mind, and neutral monism says its neither mind nor matter, but every thing is something neutral or "in between".

Interesting. Does Dualism tend to be connected with religious belief?


Not necessarily. There's dualistic theists and atheists. I guess it seems to be the most straightforward view.

Also, what is Pluralism?

I think that's a view about all religions being equally made by God. I dunno if its a philosophy of mind view... if it is I haven theard about it.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/20/2014 10:21:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 10:17:24 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/20/2014 6:15:14 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/20/2014 2:41:29 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:32:43 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/19/2014 10:30:53 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 7/18/2014 11:30:14 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/18/2014 4:15:41 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 7/18/2014 12:12:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
What is dualism?

mind =/= brain. 2 different things, hence 'du'alism.

Mind and matter?

Pretty much. Dualism states that there's two types of things. There's minds, and there's matter. They're completely different types of things, yet there is somehow a relationship between the two, and they can causally interact between each other.

In other words, you *are identical to* your mind. And your mind is immaterial, yet influences your material brain.

I understand. That's what I figured dualism was, but I didn't know for sure.

Yeah, and then materialism/idealism and neutral monism are all different. Materialism says its only matter, idealism says its only mind, and neutral monism says its neither mind nor matter, but every thing is something neutral or "in between".

Interesting. Does Dualism tend to be connected with religious belief?


Not necessarily. There's dualistic theists and atheists. I guess it seems to be the most straightforward view.

Also, what is Pluralism?

I think that's a view about all religions being equally made by God. I dunno if its a philosophy of mind view... if it is I haven theard about it.

Thank you for your input.
Nolite Timere
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/20/2014 11:32:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

Unless you believe the mind is both.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/21/2014 8:30:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/20/2014 11:32:01 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

Unless you believe the mind is both.

Both physical and non-physical? Sounds contradictory.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/21/2014 10:08:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/21/2014 8:30:39 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/20/2014 11:32:01 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 7/17/2014 9:42:16 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... premises that both the physicalist and dualist would agree with (and disagree with).

P1: If there exists a physical world, then the mind is physical
P2: The mind is not physical
C: Therefore, there does not exist a physical world

I just thought it was funny that the Physicalist would totally agree with 1, while the Dualist would detest it. While the Dualist would totally agree with P2, while the Physicalist would detest it. Basically, I could site Physicalist arguments and Dualistic arguments to try and arrive at Idealism. Pretty cool...

Unless you believe the mind is both.

Both physical and non-physical? Sounds contradictory.

That's because it is.