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What is truth?

Truth_seeker
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8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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8/27/2014 10:36:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

To just assert that "God is truth" is not rational. Even philosophy follows rational and logical thinking.

Truth is what really happened, which science is the best way we have to finding that out at this point. Science is not infallible, but it is still the best method we have.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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8/28/2014 4:00:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

This is fun. Let me give you a little insight into what I think:
Truth is basically one thing. It is what we think we know. Honestly, truth is all opinion. One of my simple truths is that we are here on this Earth to get back to Heaven but the truth to a Buddhist is that we are here to achieve Enlightenment. Another example apart from religion is the world itself. 200 years ago we knew for a fact that we were the center of the universe and 500 years ago the world was flat. What we know is all relative to what we believe the most strongly. One of my favorite book series is Here There Be Dragons because it addresses this very idea and I love the quote they give. "Believing is seeing." "No, Believing is Knowing". I encourage anyone to check out the series. It involves half of the most famous writers in history, fiction, fantasy, science fiction, philosophy, and time travel. Personally I think it is the best of all worlds but anyway tangent. The point is you are reading this because you believe that someone typed this. You believe that your computer will turn on. Everything is belief and that belief can turn into truth. Another example of this which also bites into morals a little was the book Legend of the Seeker. The main antagonist is Darken Raul who believes that he is not doing anything wrong because his whole life he was told that what we think is wrong is right and so feels no guilt but only feels like he is doing as the universe thinks he should. We believe that good is doing what is "right" but is that the truth or our truth? Just fun to think about.
Truth_seeker
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8/28/2014 4:09:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 4:00:17 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

This is fun. Let me give you a little insight into what I think:
Truth is basically one thing. It is what we think we know. Honestly, truth is all opinion. One of my simple truths is that we are here on this Earth to get back to Heaven but the truth to a Buddhist is that we are here to achieve Enlightenment. Another example apart from religion is the world itself. 200 years ago we knew for a fact that we were the center of the universe and 500 years ago the world was flat. What we know is all relative to what we believe the most strongly. One of my favorite book series is Here There Be Dragons because it addresses this very idea and I love the quote they give. "Believing is seeing." "No, Believing is Knowing". I encourage anyone to check out the series. It involves half of the most famous writers in history, fiction, fantasy, science fiction, philosophy, and time travel. Personally I think it is the best of all worlds but anyway tangent. The point is you are reading this because you believe that someone typed this. You believe that your computer will turn on. Everything is belief and that belief can turn into truth. Another example of this which also bites into morals a little was the book Legend of the Seeker. The main antagonist is Darken Raul who believes that he is not doing anything wrong because his whole life he was told that what we think is wrong is right and so feels no guilt but only feels like he is doing as the universe thinks he should. We believe that good is doing what is "right" but is that the truth or our truth? Just fun to think about.

That's what i was thinking

you said that truth is all opinions: does that mean us being here on Earth is also an opinion? A Buddhist's views an opinion? How can we distinguish fact from opinion that is if fact is actually a fact? Is our truth the truth?
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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8/28/2014 11:03:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 4:09:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:00:17 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

This is fun. Let me give you a little insight into what I think:
Truth is basically one thing. It is what we think we know. Honestly, truth is all opinion. One of my simple truths is that we are here on this Earth to get back to Heaven but the truth to a Buddhist is that we are here to achieve Enlightenment. Another example apart from religion is the world itself. 200 years ago we knew for a fact that we were the center of the universe and 500 years ago the world was flat. What we know is all relative to what we believe the most strongly. One of my favorite book series is Here There Be Dragons because it addresses this very idea and I love the quote they give. "Believing is seeing." "No, Believing is Knowing". I encourage anyone to check out the series. It involves half of the most famous writers in history, fiction, fantasy, science fiction, philosophy, and time travel. Personally I think it is the best of all worlds but anyway tangent. The point is you are reading this because you believe that someone typed this. You believe that your computer will turn on. Everything is belief and that belief can turn into truth. Another example of this which also bites into morals a little was the book Legend of the Seeker. The main antagonist is Darken Raul who believes that he is not doing anything wrong because his whole life he was told that what we think is wrong is right and so feels no guilt but only feels like he is doing as the universe thinks he should. We believe that good is doing what is "right" but is that the truth or our truth? Just fun to think about.

That's what i was thinking

you said that truth is all opinions: does that mean us being here on Earth is also an opinion? A Buddhist's views an opinion? How can we distinguish fact from opinion that is if fact is actually a fact? Is our truth the truth?

Ah this is where it gets fun. All truth is opinion, right? So, by that definition, there cannot be fact unless we make it fact. An example being the us on Earth. To you and me that is a fact. We know this just like the other some-odd trillion people here but as far as we are concerned in 200 years that may not be the case. It may turn out that Earth was simply holding us in orbit as floated above its surface. In actuality, we do not really know. The truth is unattainable as it is something only found within yourself. A self-evident truth is something that YOU find a truth but to someone else it may be totally different. So, to answer your question, there is no real way to distinguish fact from opinion or belief because that is what it is. Sure, a scientist will tell you fall back to Earth because of gravity but we have no idea what the next "truth" will be. The only real truth we have is the ones that we believe wholeheartedly because there is no other explanation. I shot someone with a gun and it killed them. Why? Well, because it went through his heart. And how do you know this? I can see the whole over his heart. You mean where you believe his heart is which is what you believe keeps you alive. Truth can also go hand in hand with the placebo effect. Things happen mainly because we believe it. Knowing is impossible.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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8/29/2014 8:26:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

"what is Truth?" That would be the time you punched in for work and the time you punched out for work. There is no greater more important truth than that on the face of the earth. Trust me on this one.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/29/2014 9:10:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/28/2014 11:03:29 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:09:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:00:17 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

This is fun. Let me give you a little insight into what I think:
Truth is basically one thing. It is what we think we know. Honestly, truth is all opinion. One of my simple truths is that we are here on this Earth to get back to Heaven but the truth to a Buddhist is that we are here to achieve Enlightenment. Another example apart from religion is the world itself. 200 years ago we knew for a fact that we were the center of the universe and 500 years ago the world was flat. What we know is all relative to what we believe the most strongly. One of my favorite book series is Here There Be Dragons because it addresses this very idea and I love the quote they give. "Believing is seeing." "No, Believing is Knowing". I encourage anyone to check out the series. It involves half of the most famous writers in history, fiction, fantasy, science fiction, philosophy, and time travel. Personally I think it is the best of all worlds but anyway tangent. The point is you are reading this because you believe that someone typed this. You believe that your computer will turn on. Everything is belief and that belief can turn into truth. Another example of this which also bites into morals a little was the book Legend of the Seeker. The main antagonist is Darken Raul who believes that he is not doing anything wrong because his whole life he was told that what we think is wrong is right and so feels no guilt but only feels like he is doing as the universe thinks he should. We believe that good is doing what is "right" but is that the truth or our truth? Just fun to think about.

That's what i was thinking

you said that truth is all opinions: does that mean us being here on Earth is also an opinion? A Buddhist's views an opinion? How can we distinguish fact from opinion that is if fact is actually a fact? Is our truth the truth?

Ah this is where it gets fun. All truth is opinion, right? So, by that definition, there cannot be fact unless we make it fact. An example being the us on Earth. To you and me that is a fact. We know this just like the other some-odd trillion people here but as far as we are concerned in 200 years that may not be the case. It may turn out that Earth was simply holding us in orbit as floated above its surface. In actuality, we do not really know. The truth is unattainable as it is something only found within yourself. A self-evident truth is something that YOU find a truth but to someone else it may be totally different. So, to answer your question, there is no real way to distinguish fact from opinion or belief because that is what it is. Sure, a scientist will tell you fall back to Earth because of gravity but we have no idea what the next "truth" will be. The only real truth we have is the ones that we believe wholeheartedly because there is no other explanation. I shot someone with a gun and it killed them. Why? Well, because it went through his heart. And how do you know this? I can see the whole over his heart. You mean where you believe his heart is which is what you believe keeps you alive. Truth can also go hand in hand with the placebo effect. Things happen mainly because we believe it. Knowing is impossible.

so if knowing is impossible then we can only agree to what we think we know deep within correct? Truth is then determined by self, so what if i believe that the man didn't die? Would that be truth?
BradK
Posts: 475
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8/29/2014 11:29:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

on a religious website, maybe I wouldn't bash you for this. But this is a debate website so I'm sorry I will have to. No one has heard god. People claim to but no one can prove it. I ask you, where did you hear god? Directly? Or did you just hear someone say they heard someone else say they heard it from a god?
Truth_seeker
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8/30/2014 10:15:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:13:09 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I suppose truth is just what is objective

How would you define objective?
Blade-of-Truth
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8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Truth_seeker
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8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious
xXCryptoXx
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8/30/2014 10:51:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 10:15:53 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:13:09 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I suppose truth is just what is objective

How would you define objective?

Truth
Nolite Timere
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
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8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.
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Truth_seeker
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8/30/2014 11:36:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So you think global dominance must occur to find Truth? That's what happened over the centuries. A stronger more powerful civilization comes and conquers the weaker civilizations, indoctrinating them with their beliefs and traditions. I don't think world peace is an option.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
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8/30/2014 11:49:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:36:53 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So you think global dominance must occur to find Truth? That's what happened over the centuries. A stronger more powerful civilization comes and conquers the weaker civilizations, indoctrinating them with their beliefs and traditions. I don't think world peace is an option.

Well, in a way - yes. It'd be foolish to think that our world is not in a perpetual state of war for complete dominance. That's been the name of the game from day 1. Once that happens, perhaps it'd be more possible to create or find an objective truth due to the reasons you said, such as indoctrination. World peace is certainly a possibility, but not as long as the game of world dominance is being played. I see two scenarios where it is possible:

1) We are attacked from an outside threat like aliens. This would unify the world for a common goal, which might allow for some objective truths to form.

2) Someone wins the game - and has control over the entire world. From there, they can begin indoctrinating the incoming humans or younger generations. Once the old ways die out with the old-order generations, the new system of order which was implanted in the younger generations will have no opposition and can become the dominant, globally practiced system of order. Once that occurs, perhaps that system of order would have some objective truths presented within it.
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Raisor
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8/30/2014 11:55:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The truth is a proposition that is true. Any account of what it means for a proposition to be true is an account if what truth is.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/30/2014 11:58:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:49:34 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:36:53 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So you think global dominance must occur to find Truth? That's what happened over the centuries. A stronger more powerful civilization comes and conquers the weaker civilizations, indoctrinating them with their beliefs and traditions. I don't think world peace is an option.

Well, in a way - yes. It'd be foolish to think that our world is not in a perpetual state of war for complete dominance. That's been the name of the game from day 1. Once that happens, perhaps it'd be more possible to create or find an objective truth due to the reasons you said, such as indoctrination. World peace is certainly a possibility, but not as long as the game of world dominance is being played. I see two scenarios where it is possible:

1) We are attacked from an outside threat like aliens. This would unify the world for a common goal, which might allow for some objective truths to form.

2) Someone wins the game - and has control over the entire world. From there, they can begin indoctrinating the incoming humans or younger generations. Once the old ways die out with the old-order generations, the new system of order which was implanted in the younger generations will have no opposition and can become the dominant, globally practiced system of order. Once that occurs, perhaps that system of order would have some objective truths presented within it.

Well if you need to dominate the world then objective truth does not exist right? You simply must subject to the stronger and more dominant doctrine of beliefs.
Truth_seeker
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8/30/2014 11:59:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:55:15 AM, Raisor wrote:
The truth is a proposition that is true. Any account of what it means for a proposition to be true is an account if what truth is.

Can you give examples?
Blade-of-Truth
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8/30/2014 12:07:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:58:14 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:49:34 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:36:53 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So you think global dominance must occur to find Truth? That's what happened over the centuries. A stronger more powerful civilization comes and conquers the weaker civilizations, indoctrinating them with their beliefs and traditions. I don't think world peace is an option.

Well, in a way - yes. It'd be foolish to think that our world is not in a perpetual state of war for complete dominance. That's been the name of the game from day 1. Once that happens, perhaps it'd be more possible to create or find an objective truth due to the reasons you said, such as indoctrination. World peace is certainly a possibility, but not as long as the game of world dominance is being played. I see two scenarios where it is possible:

1) We are attacked from an outside threat like aliens. This would unify the world for a common goal, which might allow for some objective truths to form.

2) Someone wins the game - and has control over the entire world. From there, they can begin indoctrinating the incoming humans or younger generations. Once the old ways die out with the old-order generations, the new system of order which was implanted in the younger generations will have no opposition and can become the dominant, globally practiced system of order. Once that occurs, perhaps that system of order would have some objective truths presented within it.

Well if you need to dominate the world then objective truth does not exist right? You simply must subject to the stronger and more dominant doctrine of beliefs.

That's only if you are subjecting yourself to accept those beliefs against your will or your own standard of beliefs. Ideally, someone who dominates the world would also have the means of indoctrinating the youth so that in a few generations the old system of order will be forgotten. The very nature of indoctrination when it comes to children is to teach them your system of morality before they have a means to form their own. A perfect example would be Christian parents who subject their child to church and the christian faith before the child can research other religions and come to decide their own faith. The difference between this example and the reality of a world controlled by one system would be that there would be no other options for the child to explore later in life. So the system they are indoctrinated into is the only one around, thus the only one they know to practice. A true commander of the world would also have the means to quell anyone who dare think outside of that frame of thought. That is absolute control and the end game.
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Chuz-Life
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8/30/2014 2:06:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?


In my opinion, truth is that which factually exists even when presented observed with denial.

"Self evidence" is one form of truth.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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Chuz-Life
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8/30/2014 2:08:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 2:06:28 PM, Chuz-Life wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?


In my opinion, truth is that which factually exists even when presented and/or observed with denial.

"Self evidence" is one form of truth.

* Correction
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/30/2014 2:57:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So, in other words, truth is only that which the consensus wills it to be? How is that which everyone accepts any more "objective" than that which only one person does? After all, 50,000,000 Frenchmen aren't a united and omnipotent whole - they're just 50,000,000 individuals with supposedly only relative truths.
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sadolite
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8/30/2014 3:08:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 11:13:09 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I suppose truth is just what is objective

So this philosophy would make number of hours you worked indicated on your time card objective and open for debate.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
xXCryptoXx
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8/30/2014 3:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 3:08:24 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 8/29/2014 11:13:09 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I suppose truth is just what is objective

So this philosophy would make number of hours you worked indicated on your time card objective and open for debate.

whatever the hell that means
Nolite Timere
Blade-of-Truth
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8/30/2014 5:48:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/30/2014 2:57:17 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/30/2014 11:00:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:48:03 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/30/2014 10:45:40 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

You should read the Summa Theologica, it comes to the same conclusion that Truth is God.

I don't believe Truth is God. Truth is relative, there is no objective truth that exists in this world. Just as there is no objective God that exists in this world. Truth is whatever you choose to perceive as truth - that's the truth of the matter. If you choose to perceive God as Truth then it is a relative truth to you - for I do not believe God is Truth, hence God is not objective Truth.

Truth is, at the end of the day, whatever you choose to view as Truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yea i have a copy of it i think, i also agree that at the same time Truth is relative, but still trying to think about it some more. Why do you consider Truth to be relative? just curious

Yeah if you have a copy of it laying around you should definitely crack it open and give it a read. If not, I know for a fact that you'd be able to find a free PDF version if you do a google search - that's how I was able to read it myself a few years ago.

I would consider truth relative because I've yet to see it in any other form. Never have I seen an objective truth - meaning that every person subscribes to that truth. It's just not possible at this point in humanity's development. We are still very separated as a whole when looking at all the different cultures, traditions, beliefs and morality systems. I mean, on a daily basis we are coming together more and more - the internet helped connect people globally a great deal but we are still on that upwards climb to truly being a globalized world. I think that, if anything, we might find an objective truth eventually - but it probably won't happen for a few more generations. At this point, we are still too different in a global sense. So, I won't say Objective truth is impossible - but I don't believe we've found any yet. Someday we will, hopefully.

So, in other words, truth is only that which the consensus wills it to be?

No, not at all. Truth can be subjective, relative, absolute, objective, personal, etc. I've never seen an objective truth though, have you? I was merely trying to envision a scenario where stumbling upon one might be easier accomplished.

How is that which everyone accepts any more "objective" than that which only one person does?

If everyone accepts it as a truth, there would be no opposition, no bias... Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings.

After all, 50,000,000 Frenchmen aren't a united and omnipotent whole - they're just 50,000,000 individuals with supposedly only relative truths.

Indeed. Keep in mind, objective truth and objective goals would be two different things. They might all share an objective goal, but I see no reason to grant it is related to an objective truth unless proof was given.
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LostintheEcho1498
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9/1/2014 1:45:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/29/2014 9:10:11 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/28/2014 11:03:29 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:09:25 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/28/2014 4:00:17 PM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/26/2014 6:06:38 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
This is an old question, but what is Truth?

Although i believe that science can bring us closer to reality, but ultimately, God is the Truth. Everything he saws is law, however i believe that everyone has knowledge which helps us understand the Truth better, so i'm interested in your thoughts.

This is fun. Let me give you a little insight into what I think:
Truth is basically one thing. It is what we think we know. Honestly, truth is all opinion. One of my simple truths is that we are here on this Earth to get back to Heaven but the truth to a Buddhist is that we are here to achieve Enlightenment. Another example apart from religion is the world itself. 200 years ago we knew for a fact that we were the center of the universe and 500 years ago the world was flat. What we know is all relative to what we believe the most strongly. One of my favorite book series is Here There Be Dragons because it addresses this very idea and I love the quote they give. "Believing is seeing." "No, Believing is Knowing". I encourage anyone to check out the series. It involves half of the most famous writers in history, fiction, fantasy, science fiction, philosophy, and time travel. Personally I think it is the best of all worlds but anyway tangent. The point is you are reading this because you believe that someone typed this. You believe that your computer will turn on. Everything is belief and that belief can turn into truth. Another example of this which also bites into morals a little was the book Legend of the Seeker. The main antagonist is Darken Raul who believes that he is not doing anything wrong because his whole life he was told that what we think is wrong is right and so feels no guilt but only feels like he is doing as the universe thinks he should. We believe that good is doing what is "right" but is that the truth or our truth? Just fun to think about.

That's what i was thinking

you said that truth is all opinions: does that mean us being here on Earth is also an opinion? A Buddhist's views an opinion? How can we distinguish fact from opinion that is if fact is actually a fact? Is our truth the truth?

Ah this is where it gets fun. All truth is opinion, right? So, by that definition, there cannot be fact unless we make it fact. An example being the us on Earth. To you and me that is a fact. We know this just like the other some-odd trillion people here but as far as we are concerned in 200 years that may not be the case. It may turn out that Earth was simply holding us in orbit as floated above its surface. In actuality, we do not really know. The truth is unattainable as it is something only found within yourself. A self-evident truth is something that YOU find a truth but to someone else it may be totally different. So, to answer your question, there is no real way to distinguish fact from opinion or belief because that is what it is. Sure, a scientist will tell you fall back to Earth because of gravity but we have no idea what the next "truth" will be. The only real truth we have is the ones that we believe wholeheartedly because there is no other explanation. I shot someone with a gun and it killed them. Why? Well, because it went through his heart. And how do you know this? I can see the whole over his heart. You mean where you believe his heart is which is what you believe keeps you alive. Truth can also go hand in hand with the placebo effect. Things happen mainly because we believe it. Knowing is impossible.

so if knowing is impossible then we can only agree to what we think we know deep within correct? Truth is then determined by self, so what if i believe that the man didn't die? Would that be truth?

Correct, all fact is simply truths that the majority agree with. For the next question, as all truth is simply belief if you truly believed it with all your heart then yes, to you it would be truth. One of the craziest things I have heard of concerning the placebo effect was when a man was dying in a hospital but with no symptoms. There were no problems with his body at all and they asked him what was wrong. He said he had been cursed by a Witch Doctor who had powerful Voodoo magic. At first the doctors were totally lost. They were thinking this dude is crazy. He was going to die of no disease and no one knew what to do about it. One doctor, however, came up with an idea. He told the man who was "sick" that the voodoo had created a lizard within his body that was eating his stomach. He gave him ibuprofen and said it would cause him to vomit up the lizard. He had prepared a bucket with a lizard already in it and, without him seeing it beforehand, had him throw up in the bucket to see a lizard with his stomach acid in the bucket. After this, the man began to recover quickly and was out of the hospital within a few days. The power of the mind, the power of belief, is quite stronger than anything else that we can do.