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We need another holocaust

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It doesn't matter too much which ethnic group we target, we definitely need a new holocaust. Here is my rough argument:

P1) A holocaust is an effective way to maximize suffering
P2) Suffering is Good
C) A holocause is an effective way to maximize good

P1 I suspect is not in dispute, and P2 much see some opposition, for which I have the following proof:

1. All things that make us human are good
2. Suffering makes us human
C. Suffering is good

Neither of these premises I suspect are contestable, since suffering is one of the core traits that allows us to feel emotion, fear, and is one of the main sources, if not the most significant source of motivation within a species. It saves our lives every say, and is the reason why we avoid touching a hot stove, or sticking our tongues in the electric mains. Which strongly affirms P2.

P1 is pretty much tautological, since denying this premise is self-refuting. Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. Hence to deny this would be to discard all basis we have for being moral.

The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 3:55:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:

Pleasssseeeee let's debate this.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:01:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
It doesn't matter too much which ethnic group we target, we definitely need a new holocaust. Here is my rough argument:

P1) A holocaust is an effective way to maximize suffering
P2) Suffering is Good
C) A holocause is an effective way to maximize good

P1 I suspect is not in dispute, and P2 much see some opposition, for which I have the following proof:

1. All things that make us human are good
2. Suffering makes us human
C. Suffering is good

Neither of these premises I suspect are contestable, since suffering is one of the core traits that allows us to feel emotion, fear, and is one of the main sources, if not the most significant source of motivation within a species. It saves our lives every say, and is the reason why we avoid touching a hot stove, or sticking our tongues in the electric mains. Which strongly affirms P2.

P1 is pretty much tautological, since denying this premise is self-refuting. Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. Hence to deny this would be to discard all basis we have for being moral.

The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?

We should target people over the age of sixty, they lend no good in this would.
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:03:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:01:49 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
We should target people over the age of sixty, they lend no good in this would.

You don't like elderly people? That's a deal breaker..
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:03:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:03:08 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:01:49 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
We should target people over the age of sixty, they lend no good in this would.

You don't like elderly people? That's a deal breaker..

I was being sarcastic...
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:04:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:03:55 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:03:08 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:01:49 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
We should target people over the age of sixty, they lend no good in this would.

You don't like elderly people? That's a deal breaker..

I was being sarcastic...

Oh.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:04:21 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:03:55 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:03:08 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:01:49 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
We should target people over the age of sixty, they lend no good in this would.

You don't like elderly people? That's a deal breaker..

I was being sarcastic...

Oh.

Satire.
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:07:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.

<3
I'm so fancy, you already know.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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9/24/2014 4:08:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
It doesn't matter too much which ethnic group we target, we definitely need a new holocaust. Here is my rough argument:

P1) A holocaust is an effective way to maximize suffering
P2) Suffering is Good
C) A holocause is an effective way to maximize good

P1 I suspect is not in dispute, and P2 much see some opposition, for which I have the following proof:

1. All things that make us human are good
2. Suffering makes us human
C. Suffering is good

Neither of these premises I suspect are contestable, since suffering is one of the core traits that allows us to feel emotion, fear, and is one of the main sources, if not the most significant source of motivation within a species. It saves our lives every say, and is the reason why we avoid touching a hot stove, or sticking our tongues in the electric mains. Which strongly affirms P2.

Both are contestable.
Fear =\= suffering
Organisms that aren't human can both suffer and fear.

Also:
Humans are imperfect creatures. Therefore the components that make a human cannot all be perfect. Therefore they cannot all be good.

P1 is pretty much tautological, since denying this premise is self-refuting. Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. Hence to deny this would be to discard all basis we have for being moral.

The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/24/2014 4:13:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:08:32 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
It doesn't matter too much which ethnic group we target, we definitely need a new holocaust. Here is my rough argument:

P1) A holocaust is an effective way to maximize suffering
P2) Suffering is Good
C) A holocause is an effective way to maximize good

P1 I suspect is not in dispute, and P2 much see some opposition, for which I have the following proof:

1. All things that make us human are good
2. Suffering makes us human
C. Suffering is good

Neither of these premises I suspect are contestable, since suffering is one of the core traits that allows us to feel emotion, fear, and is one of the main sources, if not the most significant source of motivation within a species. It saves our lives every say, and is the reason why we avoid touching a hot stove, or sticking our tongues in the electric mains. Which strongly affirms P2.

Both are contestable.
Fear =\= suffering

I never made that argument "Fear = Suffering"

Organisms that aren't human can both suffer and fear.

What is your point?

Also:
Humans are imperfect creatures. Therefore the components that make a human cannot all be perfect. Therefore they cannot all be good.

Perfection is a subjective statement and is meaningless without an attribute it is ascribed to. A'largest' thing is meaningless unless you put into say special context, or some type of quantity. But it only applies to the quantity that the statement is made to.

Hence humans are 'imperfect' is a meaningless statement unless you give the attribute(s) in which it is imperfect. I would go as far as to say I am a perfect version of 'me' as I am now, via A=A, the law of identity.

P1 is pretty much tautological, since denying this premise is self-refuting. Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. Hence to deny this would be to discard all basis we have for being moral.

The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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9/24/2014 4:17:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:13:53 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:08:32 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
It doesn't matter too much which ethnic group we target, we definitely need a new holocaust. Here is my rough argument:

P1) A holocaust is an effective way to maximize suffering
P2) Suffering is Good
C) A holocause is an effective way to maximize good

P1 I suspect is not in dispute, and P2 much see some opposition, for which I have the following proof:

1. All things that make us human are good
2. Suffering makes us human
C. Suffering is good

Neither of these premises I suspect are contestable, since suffering is one of the core traits that allows us to feel emotion, fear, and is one of the main sources, if not the most significant source of motivation within a species. It saves our lives every say, and is the reason why we avoid touching a hot stove, or sticking our tongues in the electric mains. Which strongly affirms P2.

Both are contestable.
Fear =\= suffering

I never made that argument "Fear = Suffering"

Fear is one of the main sources of motivation in a species. Suffering is not.

Organisms that aren't human can both suffer and fear.

What is your point?

That suffering cannot therefore be what makes us human.

Also:
Humans are imperfect creatures. Therefore the components that make a human cannot all be perfect. Therefore they cannot all be good.

Perfection is a subjective statement and is meaningless without an attribute it is ascribed to. A'largest' thing is meaningless unless you put into say special context, or some type of quantity. But it only applies to the quantity that the statement is made to.

Perfection is objective. This is why it is unreachable.

Hence humans are 'imperfect' is a meaningless statement unless you give the attribute(s) in which it is imperfect. I would go as far as to say I am a perfect version of 'me' as I am now, via A=A, the law of identity.

P1 is pretty much tautological, since denying this premise is self-refuting. Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. Hence to deny this would be to discard all basis we have for being moral.

The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:18:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:07:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.

<3

Pffft....sure...

You know I'm elderly.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:18:44 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:07:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.

<3

Pffft....sure...

You know I'm elderly.

I know, I love the elderly(:
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:22:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:20:29 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:18:44 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:07:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.

<3

Pffft....sure...

You know I'm elderly.

I know, I love the elderly(:

That was another test, Bekah, and you failed.

Pffft, I'm totes not elderly...

*looks in the mirror, commences mid-life crisis, and buys a Ferrari. Yolo*
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:22:30 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:20:29 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:18:44 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:07:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:06:40 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:05:47 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
Satire.

Note to self: 9-year olds know satire.

<3

Pffft....sure...

You know I'm elderly.

I know, I love the elderly(:

That was another test, Bekah, and you failed.

Pffft, I'm totes not elderly...

*looks in the mirror, commences mid-life crisis, and buys a Ferrari. Yolo*

You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.
I'm so fancy, you already know.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:32:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.

Of course dogs talk. Didn't you see that movie with that guy? The dog saved the entire town. That's who I aspire to be.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/24/2014 4:34:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.

Can you please take your cyber elsewhere, this topic is for holocaust discussing.
MonetaryOffset
Posts: 559
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9/24/2014 4:36:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:34:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.

Can you please take your cyber elsewhere, this topic is for holocaust discussing.

LOL What the hell hahahahahaha.
~JMK

9:43 P.M. EST, Nov 5, 2014: I became a basic white girl.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:37:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:32:01 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.

Of course dogs talk. Didn't you see that movie with that guy? The dog saved the entire town. That's who I aspire to be.

Awe, that's so cute. <3
I'm so fancy, you already know.
SPENCERJOYAGE14
Posts: 1,040
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9/24/2014 4:38:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:34:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:28:25 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:26:17 PM, MonetaryOffset wrote:
At 9/24/2014 4:25:22 PM, SPENCERJOYAGE14 wrote:
You're 25! In the prospective of a nine year old that's pretty fvcking old.

Not in dog years! Which is all that matters anyway.

You're a dog? Because unless you're a dog you don't count for dog years. 0_0 And if you are a dog I didn't know dogs talked except for that tv show "Martha Speaks". Nine year olds love that show.

Can you please take your cyber elsewhere, this topic is for holocaust discussing.

Awe. :(
I'm so fancy, you already know.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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9/24/2014 4:41:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
People living in Middle East or fat people.
NiamC
Posts: 905
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9/25/2014 12:49:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/24/2014 4:41:38 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 9/24/2014 3:42:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
The conclusion follows, we need a new holocaust. Which ethnic minority should we target?
People living in Middle East or fat people.

Killing fat people seems more morally and socially permissable than Middle Eastern people
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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9/25/2014 1:57:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
P1 of the OP's "proof" for P2 should be self-evidently false. Yes, suffering makes us human, but not all things that make us human are good. The OP's defense of this premise were just a bare-assertion that it would be a contradiction not to accept it. Even if this statement were true:

"Whenever good or bad is discussed, it is always from the perspective of 'we', or 'us' or 'I', which presupposes humanity, and to be human. "

That wouldn't mean that all things that make us human are good. That is a non-sequitur .
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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9/25/2014 4:28:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"We need another holocaust" Well we have been having one since 1980. Abortions killing more than 1,350,000,000 worldwide to date. As far as those afforded the luxury of being called human, it's not a matter of if we need, it's a matter of when the next one will take place.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/25/2014 4:43:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/25/2014 4:28:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
"We need another holocaust" Well we have been having one since 1980. Abortions killing more than 1,350,000,000 worldwide to date. As far as those afforded the luxury of being called human, it's not a matter of if we need, it's a matter of when the next one will take place.

I agree completely.
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