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Relativity, time, and god.

SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.

Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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10/1/2014 4:19:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sargon had a debate about that a while back. You might check out that debate.

http://www.debate.org...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/1/2014 4:58:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

Note that A & B theories of time is not a complete dichotimy, there are other theories, but these are the leading 2. So disproving A or B theories of time doesn't automatically entail the other.

Moreover there are 2 (+) interpretations of Einstein's theory of relativity, you have the classical interpretation (which is mainstream physics) and the Neo-Lorentzian interpretation. The former strongly implies B theory of time, while the latter implies A theory.

Both explain current observations, but they both made radically different assumptions:

Classical:
1. Speed of light is universal & constant
2. Laws of physics are the same everywhere

Neo-Lorentzian
1. There exists a privileged reference frame
2. Laws of physics are plastic with velocity, state etc to the privilages reference frame

For a more thorough introduction to this and the relevancy to theism I recommend checking out the linked video, it's pretty long (50 mins) but it should give you a decent idea of the basics and the relevancy.

https://www.youtube.com...

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

Well, the KCA has many problems even assuming A-Series of time so #1 & #2 are just false (which theory of time is true is religiously neutral by itself). You can make further arguments (see my debate with Jellon) which ties this premise to the ramification that God could not have created the universe for example, but you need further arguments (just like you need for the KCA).

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

Ask Ajabi for stuff to read on this.. I find it hard to google...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/1/2014 11:51:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

That is because I have a very unorthodox view of God lol
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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10/1/2014 11:56:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 11:51:56 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

That is because I have a very unorthodox view of God lol

I am not even convinced your view of god even entails a sentient 'being', idealism is just a sea of perceptions, it is not necessary that god possesses any intentionality, free will, or even memory etc for the idealistic universe to be self-consistent.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/2/2014 12:03:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 11:56:43 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:51:56 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

That is because I have a very unorthodox view of God lol

I am not even convinced your view of god even entails a sentient 'being', idealism is just a sea of perceptions, it is not necessary that god possesses any intentionality, free will, or even memory etc for the idealistic universe to be self-consistent.

Does it really make sense to talk about perceptions without someone that is doing the perceiving? I think the idea of a "being" is implied by the very idea of there being a perception in the first place. Also, there is more to a mind than perceptions, so Idealism isn't the view that all there exists is just a stream of perceptions. Emotions and thoughts exist too, but they aren't perceptions that we know through the senses. Also, knowledge is an aspect of mind, so I see no reason why the grand-mind wouldn't have knowledge. Also, Intentionality is implied by the fact that this minds act.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/2/2014 12:03:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 11:56:43 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:51:56 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

That is because I have a very unorthodox view of God lol

I am not even convinced your view of god even entails a sentient 'being', idealism is just a sea of perceptions, it is not necessary that god possesses any intentionality, free will, or even memory etc for the idealistic universe to be self-consistent.

*mind acts
mashi
Posts: 11
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10/2/2014 12:24:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

Take a graph with four dimensions where all of the forms in it evolve rapidly, and notice how contingent they are with, as they transform. Now, to question if there has been a prime mover is to go against my initial vibe. I treated the forms or the phenomena of causality like they illusory and forgot the history of the forms. My point is that I think of God as the substratum but also as the first cause.
Sargon
Posts: 524
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10/2/2014 8:02:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The best one can say is that general relativity is inconsistent with god, given that general relativity is not true (it is only an effective theory at specific physical scales). I have only made the argument that general relativity is inconsistent with god in order to make a point about the irony of theists using general relativity as evidence in arguments for god's existence.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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10/2/2014 8:16:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

So what you are saying is you haven't met Dylancatlow yet?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sargon
Posts: 524
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10/2/2014 8:46:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 8:16:17 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 10/1/2014 11:49:55 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:38:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

How does B-Theory being correct imply that there most likely isn't a God? How does A-Theory being correct imply that there most likely is a God? I am pretty well versed in these subjects and these claims make no sense. I believe in God but I also believe A-Theory is false. Sargon, for example, is an Atheist, and he believes A-Theory is true. I see no connection here... At best, B-Theory being true defeats the Kalam Cosmological Argument, but that is only ONE argument for God's existence. The idea that the conclusion of an argument is less likely simply because you can defeat one argument for it is absurd. I believe, even to this day, that the Kalam Cosmological Argument fails to show God exists... That doesn't make God any less likely.

You are by far the weirdest Theist I have ever known, and I mean that as a compliment.

So what you are saying is you haven't met Dylancatlow yet?

10/10
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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10/2/2014 9:47:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:55:48 AM, SNP1 wrote:
I am not sure if this is correct, so if it is not, please tell me.

A friend of mine was taking a philosophy class when to professor said that the question of "Does god exist?" can be answered by the question, "Is Einstein's Theory of relativity true?"

The way to reach this is as follows:

***Relativity to Time***
1) Einstein's theory of relativity heavily implies that the B-Theory of time is true.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, it then will imply that the A-Theory of time is true.

I do see the first one being correct, but I do not see how the second one follows.

***Time to God***
1) The A-Theory of time heavily implies that there is a god (at a minimum of deism).
2) The B-Theory of time heavily implies that there is no creator god.

I have heard the first one is correct due to the KCA, but can someone explain the second one to me?

***How this connects***
1) If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then atheism is most likely correct.
2) If Einstein's theory of relativity is false, then theism (at least deism) is most likely correct.


Can someone help me out here? I do not know enough about the A-theory and B-theory of time to know if this is correct. If it is, then it is an interesting point. If it is not, then I am wondering why a professor was saying it is...

No, it's not correct, as Wolfgang Pauli said, it's not even wrong. It's so rife with false presuppositions about Relativity Theory, the A and B theories of time, and God as to be absurd and meaningless.

Either your friend relayed it wrong or the professor is some kind of nitwit. I suspect the professor was making some kind of point and prefaced it with some things your friend left out, that or the professor dropped acid before class.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater