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Wearing ethnic costumes is racist?

ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://everydayfeminism.com...

Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist. And as long as we continue to hold this perception, social stigmas that lead to cyclical racism will continue forever.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/10/2014 10:51:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist. And as long as we continue to hold this perception, social stigmas that lead to cyclical racism will continue forever.

No.

Where does it stop. If I paint my face black I'm racist, but if I wear a turban I'm not.

Maybe I have a longing to be a black man and Halloween is the one time it can come out. Along with my P.I.M.P cup and cane.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/11/2014 10:22:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist. And as long as we continue to hold this perception, social stigmas that lead to cyclical racism will continue forever.

This is an interesting yet consistent trend amongst racists lately. Instead of conjuring up pesudo-justifications for racism (o be found in religious, judicial, or psycho-sociological apparatuses), this type of racists grounds their racism in the reactions of POC which (on their view) is the primal generation (and re-generation) of racist sentiment. In mistaking a reaction to racism with the original 'spark', this racist effectively undermines any and all reaction and/or rebellion against racism but also effectively silences POC in the process (which racists always like). It's kind of interesting to see the different verisimilitudes of racists in their different incarnations though.
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/12/2014 9:36:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/10/2014 10:51:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist. And as long as we continue to hold this perception, social stigmas that lead to cyclical racism will continue forever.

No.

Where does it stop. If I paint my face black I'm racist, but if I wear a turban I'm not.

Maybe I have a longing to be a black man and Halloween is the one time it can come out. Along with my P.I.M.P cup and cane.

perhaps it stops when the intention is there?
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/12/2014 9:40:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/11/2014 10:22:34 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist. And as long as we continue to hold this perception, social stigmas that lead to cyclical racism will continue forever.

This is an interesting yet consistent trend amongst racists lately. Instead of conjuring up pesudo-justifications for racism (o be found in religious, judicial, or psycho-sociological apparatuses), this type of racists grounds their racism in the reactions of POC which (on their view) is the primal generation (and re-generation) of racist sentiment. In mistaking a reaction to racism with the original 'spark', this racist effectively undermines any and all reaction and/or rebellion against racism but also effectively silences POC in the process (which racists always like). It's kind of interesting to see the different verisimilitudes of racists in their different incarnations though.

To dress up as an orthodox Jew is not racist by nature.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/15/2014 4:24:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM, ben2974 wrote:
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...

Yeah, I got two responses, but I'd like somewhat more extensive ones, and some replies ;/ Also explain yourselves!
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/15/2014 5:43:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist.

Any bullying or discrimination can go like this. This is called victim-blaming and is what rapists say about their victims (that they are only perceiving it as rape when at the time they really did want it). It's ridiculous. Abuse is abuse because of the victim's interpretation, that doesn't mean it's suddenly not abuse just because the victim is perceiving it as such.

If you perceive me smiling as abuse the reason you are wrong is because majority wins here. If your race does not think me smiling attacks them int he majority then you are inherently incorrect and this is how society works.

Wearing an ethnic costume if you are not of that ethnicity (outside of acting in a role) is racist because it directly mocks the real race who have been wearing it as tradition for centuries.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/16/2014 9:50:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM, ben2974 wrote:
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...

Social Pinko already refuted you...
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ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/16/2014 6:11:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 9:50:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM, ben2974 wrote:
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...

Social Pinko already refuted you...

By telling me that I can't necessarily use my argument. But why not? I'm not racist, and I don't want to perpetuate it. I think people who think anything can be labeled racist are the people who are responsible for perpetuating racism. Pinko implies that I can't think in such a way. He never actually says why not.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/16/2014 6:25:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 5:43:26 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist.

Any bullying or discrimination can go like this. This is called victim-blaming and is what rapists say about their victims (that they are only perceiving it as rape when at the time they really did want it). It's ridiculous. Abuse is abuse because of the victim's interpretation, that doesn't mean it's suddenly not abuse just because the victim is perceiving it as such.

If you perceive me smiling as abuse the reason you are wrong is because majority wins here. If your race does not think me smiling attacks them int he majority then you are inherently incorrect and this is how society works.

Wearing an ethnic costume if you are not of that ethnicity (outside of acting in a role) is racist because it directly mocks the real race who have been wearing it as tradition for centuries.

We're talking about racism here, not sexual assault. The act of dressing up as a culture/ethnicity/race is not itself an act of racism. The only thing you can do is question the act itself (what is this man dressed as an Indian trying to say? Is he saying anything? Why is he dressed up like that?). What you decide on is a product of your perception. Even if the person dresses up in a fashion reminiscent of a stereotype, it does not mean that his stereotypical dress is meant to slander. It could simply reflect the limit to his understanding of a culture/ethnicity/race, which is not necessarily racist.

And what if I were wearing a dress as a mode of appreciation for cultural diversity? Must it be taken racist, then? How will the perceived victim deal with this reality? Is he right to force a racist context on the situation when it did not have that intention to begin with?
vwv
Posts: 666
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10/16/2014 6:34:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 6:25:02 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/15/2014 5:43:26 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist.

Any bullying or discrimination can go like this. This is called victim-blaming and is what rapists say about their victims (that they are only perceiving it as rape when at the time they really did want it). It's ridiculous. Abuse is abuse because of the victim's interpretation, that doesn't mean it's suddenly not abuse just because the victim is perceiving it as such.

If you perceive me smiling as abuse the reason you are wrong is because majority wins here. If your race does not think me smiling attacks them int he majority then you are inherently incorrect and this is how society works.

Wearing an ethnic costume if you are not of that ethnicity (outside of acting in a role) is racist because it directly mocks the real race who have been wearing it as tradition for centuries.

The act of dressing up as a culture/ethnicity/race is not itself an act of racism. The only thing you can do is question the act itself (what is this man dressed as an Indian trying to say? Is he saying anything? Why is he dressed up like that?). What you decide on is a product of your perception. Even if the person dresses up in a fashion reminiscent of a stereotype, it does not mean that his stereotypical dress is meant to slander. It could simply reflect the limit to his understanding of a culture/ethnicity/race, which is not necessarily racist.

And what if I were wearing a dress as a mode of appreciation for cultural diversity? Must it be taken racist, then? How will the perceived victim deal with this reality? Is he right to force a racist context on the situation when it did not have that intention to begin with?

You ignored everything I said so quite frankly I'm done.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/16/2014 6:51:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 6:11:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/16/2014 9:50:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM, ben2974 wrote:
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...

Social Pinko already refuted you...

By telling me that I can't necessarily use my argument. But why not? I'm not racist, and I don't want to perpetuate it. I think people who think anything can be labeled racist are the people who are responsible for perpetuating racism. Pinko implies that I can't think in such a way. He never actually says why not.

Go back and re read what he said. I think that will answer your "but why not?" question.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/16/2014 6:55:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 6:34:35 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/16/2014 6:25:02 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/15/2014 5:43:26 PM, vwv wrote:
At 10/8/2014 10:47:31 AM, ben2974 wrote:
http://everydayfeminism.com...


Big load of garbage... This is perceived racism: racism is in the mind of the self-victimizing individuals. Meaning, it's only racist if you want it to be racist.

Any bullying or discrimination can go like this. This is called victim-blaming and is what rapists say about their victims (that they are only perceiving it as rape when at the time they really did want it). It's ridiculous. Abuse is abuse because of the victim's interpretation, that doesn't mean it's suddenly not abuse just because the victim is perceiving it as such.

If you perceive me smiling as abuse the reason you are wrong is because majority wins here. If your race does not think me smiling attacks them int he majority then you are inherently incorrect and this is how society works.

Wearing an ethnic costume if you are not of that ethnicity (outside of acting in a role) is racist because it directly mocks the real race who have been wearing it as tradition for centuries.

The act of dressing up as a culture/ethnicity/race is not itself an act of racism. The only thing you can do is question the act itself (what is this man dressed as an Indian trying to say? Is he saying anything? Why is he dressed up like that?). What you decide on is a product of your perception. Even if the person dresses up in a fashion reminiscent of a stereotype, it does not mean that his stereotypical dress is meant to slander. It could simply reflect the limit to his understanding of a culture/ethnicity/race, which is not necessarily racist.

And what if I were wearing a dress as a mode of appreciation for cultural diversity? Must it be taken racist, then? How will the perceived victim deal with this reality? Is he right to force a racist context on the situation when it did not have that intention to begin with?

You ignored everything I said so quite frankly I'm done.

You pulled a slippery slope with the example of rape and did not back it up. You just assumed that if we can neglect the apparent racism in dressing up (which I defended) as victim-blaming then the same argument can be transferred to cases of rape. This is definitely not the case, as implicated in my above response. There are specific conditions to be met to qualify a case as rape. This does not parallel with costumes and racism.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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10/16/2014 7:08:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 6:51:23 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/16/2014 6:11:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 10/16/2014 9:50:19 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/15/2014 4:22:54 PM, ben2974 wrote:
could I get more views on this? I'd like to be refuted so that someone could point out something wrong with my deduction, if anything...

Social Pinko already refuted you...

By telling me that I can't necessarily use my argument. But why not? I'm not racist, and I don't want to perpetuate it. I think people who think anything can be labeled racist are the people who are responsible for perpetuating racism. Pinko implies that I can't think in such a way. He never actually says why not.

Go back and re read what he said. I think that will answer your "but why not?" question.

I obviously don't understand his response if I missed the "why" part. All I understood from his response is that my rationale on this issue, if applied (i.e., using the victim-blaming excuse for cases against racism), would be labeled as fallacious. I don't know how he rebutted in telling me why the rationale I chose for THIS issue is fallacious. I already stated in my follow-up post (post #2 in thread) that the argument I chose (victim-blaming/perceived racism) is relevant only to the article being presently scrutinized in the OP.

Please, if I'm missing something from his post, just point it out to me.