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Is this relevant?

SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.
SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 4:48:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.
If the fetus is not human, what species is it?
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 5:22:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.

Yes it is. Whether something is a person is a factor in whether abortion should be allowed. If life begins at birth, abortion should be allowed. If life begins at conception, abortion is murder.
SNP1
Posts: 2,406
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10/12/2014 5:29:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, the issue is if it is a person or not. I have even gone to debates between doctors and they never debate if it is alive or not because no one argues that it is not.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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SNP1
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10/12/2014 5:30:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Not quite (from what I have seen). The issue is if it is a human being or not (human being meaning person).
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SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 5:33:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:29:36 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, the issue is if it is a person or not. I have even gone to debates between doctors and they never debate if it is alive or not because no one argues that it is not.

Yes it is an issue whether the baby is a person or not. I am not going to change my mind. I explained how it matters, and you rejected facts.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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10/12/2014 5:35:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:30:24 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Not quite (from what I have seen). The issue is if it is a human being or not (human being meaning person).

That's what I meant.
Skikx
Posts: 132
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10/12/2014 5:38:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

Didn't you just two days ago start a thread that was basically about the same topic where you already got a clear answer.
It doesn't matter that the fetus is human and it doesn't matter that it is alive.
What matter is if it is a person. And a fetus that is just a few weeks old doesn't have the mental capacity to be self-conscious. Ergo it is not a person.
SNP1
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10/12/2014 5:39:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:35:59 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:30:24 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Not quite (from what I have seen). The issue is if it is a human being or not (human being meaning person).

That's what I meant.

I was not trying to correct you, I was pointing out what I see when I look at the debate among doctors, biologists, etc.
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SNP1
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10/12/2014 5:41:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:33:37 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:29:36 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, the issue is if it is a person or not. I have even gone to debates between doctors and they never debate if it is alive or not because no one argues that it is not.

Yes it is an issue whether the baby is a person or not. I am not going to change my mind. I explained how it matters, and you rejected facts.

1) fetus=/=baby.
Provide evidence to the contrary since you keep claiming that they are the same thing.
2) human=/=person
I provided the definition and evidence to you prior and you IGNORED it, never responded to it.

You never brought any facts that I rejected. The only fact you brought up is that it is life at conception, which I never argued against. I only ever said that it is not relevant to the issue. If you seriously cannot understand this then I am pretty sure you are lying about your age on this website.
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SNP1
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10/12/2014 5:42:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:38:09 PM, Skikx wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

Didn't you just two days ago start a thread that was basically about the same topic where you already got a clear answer.
It doesn't matter that the fetus is human and it doesn't matter that it is alive.
What matter is if it is a person. And a fetus that is just a few weeks old doesn't have the mental capacity to be self-conscious. Ergo it is not a person.

I have been trying to point this out for a while now, but he seems to be unable to comprehend this simple fact.
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SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 5:45:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Yes ir no: Will you tell me what species the human fetus is if it is not human?
SNP1
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10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!
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SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 6:02:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

Ad hom fallacy. You need to back up your claims without attacking people. When I said that life begins at conception, you disputed me. It is not my fault that you cannot communicate clearly.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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10/12/2014 6:09:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:45:29 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Yes ir no: Will you tell me what species the human fetus is if it is not human?

It's not any species.
SNP1
Posts: 2,406
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10/12/2014 6:10:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:02:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

Ad hom fallacy. You need to back up your claims without attacking people. When I said that life begins at conception, you disputed me. It is not my fault that you cannot communicate clearly.

It is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when I attack someone instead of debating the issue. The thing is, I was never debating that issue. Therefore, me calling you an idiot in this case is not an ad hom.

I never disputed that life begins at conception, never ONCE. I only said that the question is IRRELEVANT. This is not me being unable to communicate, this is you having the comprehensive level of a rock.
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SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 6:11:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:09:43 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:45:29 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:32:57 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, because everyone agrees that the fetus is alive. The question is whether or not it's human life.

Yes ir no: Will you tell me what species the human fetus is if it is not human?

It's not any species.

That is not what science says. Everything has a species. The baby is a human being at fertilization.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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10/12/2014 6:13:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

My advice... Stop responding. There's no point in arguing with someone when all they do is argue against claims you haven't made. Unless you enjoy frustration... in which case, feel free to continue bashing your head against that wall.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
SNP1
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10/12/2014 6:15:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:13:19 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

My advice... Stop responding. There's no point in arguing with someone when all they do is argue against claims you haven't made. Unless you enjoy frustration... in which case, feel free to continue bashing your head against that wall.

I both want to stop, but don't. I hate the frustration, but at least it is not frustration due to the idiocity of the religion section.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/12/2014 6:16:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:10:21 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:02:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

Ad hom fallacy. You need to back up your claims without attacking people. When I said that life begins at conception, you disputed me. It is not my fault that you cannot communicate clearly.

It is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when I attack someone instead of debating the issue. The thing is, I was never debating that issue. Therefore, me calling you an idiot in this case is not an ad hom.

I never disputed that life begins at conception, never ONCE. I only said that the question is IRRELEVANT. This is not me being unable to communicate, this is you having the comprehensive level of a rock.
When I said that life begins at conception and the baby has rights, you disagreed.
SNP1
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10/12/2014 6:18:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:16:26 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:10:21 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:02:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

Ad hom fallacy. You need to back up your claims without attacking people. When I said that life begins at conception, you disputed me. It is not my fault that you cannot communicate clearly.

It is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when I attack someone instead of debating the issue. The thing is, I was never debating that issue. Therefore, me calling you an idiot in this case is not an ad hom.

I never disputed that life begins at conception, never ONCE. I only said that the question is IRRELEVANT. This is not me being unable to communicate, this is you having the comprehensive level of a rock.
When I said that life begins at conception and the baby has rights, you disagreed.

Where I disagreed, and I made it clear, is that:
1) baby=/=fetus

I also implied that:
2) you get rights when you are a person.

I also stated outright that:
3) human=/=person
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SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/12/2014 6:23:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:18:16 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:16:26 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:10:21 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:02:57 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

Ad hom fallacy. You need to back up your claims without attacking people. When I said that life begins at conception, you disputed me. It is not my fault that you cannot communicate clearly.

It is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is when I attack someone instead of debating the issue. The thing is, I was never debating that issue. Therefore, me calling you an idiot in this case is not an ad hom.

I never disputed that life begins at conception, never ONCE. I only said that the question is IRRELEVANT. This is not me being unable to communicate, this is you having the comprehensive level of a rock.
When I said that life begins at conception and the baby has rights, you disagreed.

Where I disagreed, and I made it clear, is that:
1) baby=/=fetus

I also implied that:
2) you get rights when you are a person.

I also stated outright that:
3) human=/=person

Understands your claims now. Disagrees, but understands. Sorry bro, for being wrong.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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10/12/2014 6:25:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:15:00 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:13:19 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:01:10 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:43:59 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I provided a link showing that life begins at conception. Go read it from the other debate.

I have NEVER denied that life begins at conception you IDIOT! I have said this MANY times. I have only said that the question of where life begins is IRRELEVANT!

My advice... Stop responding. There's no point in arguing with someone when all they do is argue against claims you haven't made. Unless you enjoy frustration... in which case, feel free to continue bashing your head against that wall.

I both want to stop, but don't. I hate the frustration, but at least it is not frustration due to the idiocity of the religion section.

True enough. Here's hoping that idiocy doesn't migrate into the philosophy section.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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10/12/2014 6:37:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 5:22:25 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.

Yes it is. Whether something is a person is a factor in whether abortion should be allowed. If life begins at birth, abortion should be allowed. If life begins at conception, abortion is murder.

Yet science defines life as beginning at conception for all forms of life. But science is trumped by the legal profession when it comes to humans, so yes it is irrelevant when human life begins for humans. That is a legal matter, not a scientific one. Life for humans begins when the legal profession says it does and not before regardless of what science says.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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10/12/2014 10:17:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 6:37:22 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:22:25 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.

Yes it is. Whether something is a person is a factor in whether abortion should be allowed. If life begins at birth, abortion should be allowed. If life begins at conception, abortion is murder.

Yet science defines life as beginning at conception for all forms of life. But science is trumped by the legal profession when it comes to humans, so yes it is irrelevant when human life begins for humans. That is a legal matter, not a scientific one. Life for humans begins when the legal profession says it does and not before regardless of what science says.

It should be determined by science, not anything else. Science is more important than unproven opinions.
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
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10/12/2014 10:51:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 10:17:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:37:22 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:22:25 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.

Yes it is. Whether something is a person is a factor in whether abortion should be allowed. If life begins at birth, abortion should be allowed. If life begins at conception, abortion is murder.

Yet science defines life as beginning at conception for all forms of life. But science is trumped by the legal profession when it comes to humans, so yes it is irrelevant when human life begins for humans. That is a legal matter, not a scientific one. Life for humans begins when the legal profession says it does and not before regardless of what science says.

It should be determined by science, not anything else. Science is more important than unproven opinions.

I think the problem here is that your definition of life is too general. Eg bacteria and viruses are alive. thus sperm cells are alive. does that mean that those that swallow (if you know what i mean) are cannibals? since their eating human by your definition.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

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SitaraMusica
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10/12/2014 10:57:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/12/2014 10:51:05 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 10/12/2014 10:17:51 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 6:37:22 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:22:25 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/12/2014 5:18:09 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 10/12/2014 4:29:33 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
Is the topic of when life begins relevant to whether abortion is legal or not? Saying that it is not is like saying the humanity of slaves is not relevant to whether slavery should be legal.

No, it is not relevant to the legal profession. A human is not alive until it has rights.

Yes it is. Whether something is a person is a factor in whether abortion should be allowed. If life begins at birth, abortion should be allowed. If life begins at conception, abortion is murder.

Yet science defines life as beginning at conception for all forms of life. But science is trumped by the legal profession when it comes to humans, so yes it is irrelevant when human life begins for humans. That is a legal matter, not a scientific one. Life for humans begins when the legal profession says it does and not before regardless of what science says.

It should be determined by science, not anything else. Science is more important than unproven opinions.

I think the problem here is that your definition of life is too general. Eg bacteria and viruses are alive. thus sperm cells are alive. does that mean that those that swallow (if you know what i mean) are cannibals? since their eating human by your definition.

Thanks you for presenting your views in a way that I can understand. I believe that life begins at implantation and that said life should be protected unless the life of the mother is threatened.