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My life philosophy...

zmikecuber
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11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/18/2014 9:03:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What do you guys think of my life philosophy?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/18/2014 9:11:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 9:03:57 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What do you guys think of my life philosophy?

It's logically invalid
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Jk :-p

You might be interested in the following TED talk (5 min long) on people who are told they are about to die:
http://www.ted.com...

Personally I don't see any reason to worry about those last moments of your life, why worry about that 1 or 2 days when you have he other 29998 days to think about.

It is a good argument against materialism (life philosophy), since money isn't really important in the long run. You don't take your stuff with you when you die.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 9:11:40 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:03:57 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What do you guys think of my life philosophy?

It's logically invalid
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Jk :-p


you smart-a** bastard. ;-)

You might be interested in the following TED talk (5 min long) on people who are told they are about to die:
http://www.ted.com...


I'll check it out.

Personally I don't see any reason to worry about those last moments of your life, why worry about that 1 or 2 days when you have he other 29998 days to think about.


Because in those last moments you can see what really matters... what actually makes a difference... especially if you believe in some sort of after-life.

It is a good argument against materialism (life philosophy), since money isn't really important in the long run. You don't take your stuff with you when you die.

Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:11:40 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:03:57 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What do you guys think of my life philosophy?

It's logically invalid
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Jk :-p


you smart-a** bastard. ;-)

You might be interested in the following TED talk (5 min long) on people who are told they are about to die:
http://www.ted.com...


I'll check it out.

Personally I don't see any reason to worry about those last moments of your life, why worry about that 1 or 2 days when you have he other 29998 days to think about.


Because in those last moments you can see what really matters... what actually makes a difference... especially if you believe in some sort of after-life.

If you don't believe that though it is actually the least important. Since if something happens at the beginning of your life, then you all those days to swell/reflect upon it. If something happens at the end of your life, then you won't be around for long to appreciate it.

Hence events that occur when you are young are much more important generally.

It is a good argument against materialism (life philosophy), since money isn't really important in the long run. You don't take your stuff with you when you die.

Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?

Sex
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 8:16:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?

True. But what do achievements matter if you're alone and miserable?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 9:17:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lol at the guy above me
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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11/19/2014 3:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 8:16:36 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?

True. But what do achievements matter if you're alone and miserable?

Some people are happy on their own, and some people, like me, have found that not working to achieve something leads to being alone and miserable.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 4:28:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 3:53:33 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:16:36 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?

True. But what do achievements matter if you're alone and miserable?

Some people are happy on their own, and some people, like me, have found that not working to achieve something leads to being alone and miserable.

I don't see what you're saying... That's a false dillemma. I never said "You're either on your own, or you have to work to achieve something."

All I'm saying is that placing material goods above things such as love and good relationships with others is stupid and worthless. I would stress man's inherent social-ness and desire to love others and be loved over man's desire to accomplishments. But of course, you can have both. All I'm saying is that one seems more important to me.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
the_croftmeister
Posts: 678
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11/19/2014 8:54:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 4:28:00 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 3:53:33 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:16:36 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?

True. But what do achievements matter if you're alone and miserable?

Some people are happy on their own, and some people, like me, have found that not working to achieve something leads to being alone and miserable.

I don't see what you're saying... That's a false dillemma. I never said "You're either on your own, or you have to work to achieve something."
I get the feeling you're fallacy hunting, when I'm not really at the point of making a rigorous argument. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my meaning.

We're talking about the relative priority of these criteria, it's not an all or nothing affair as you point out further along. Instead I am interested in what choice will be made in cases where these two values are in conflict (i.e. I have two actions available of which I can only choose one, and they meet different criteria)

Firstly, I challenge the assumption that everyone wants the love that you so expound. I do, but I can imagine others not.

Secondly, I am pointing out that sometimes these criteria are mutually supporting and that neglecting one can lead to unexpected failures in another. Sometimes, choosing love over achievement can drive love away, and it is easier to see this happening if you value the achievements in the first place.

This is how I interpret my experience, which is not to say that others will derive the same explanation.
It is not enough for me to love, I desire to be loved as well. And being loved requires something inner, something valuable that the other can love. Pursuing something greater that oneself is one way to show that inner value, and can attract love where you might not expect it.

All I'm saying is that placing material goods above things such as love and good relationships with others is stupid and worthless.
I don't see where you said that. We were talking about working towards achieving something (you gave the specific example of winning a baseball game), not material gain.
Perhaps the issue at hand is about what priority of these criteria means. A simple preference between the two would predict that I always choose expression of love over material or personal gain. But I think we would both agree that it is more complex than that.

I would stress man's inherent social-ness and desire to love others and be loved over man's desire to accomplishments. But of course, you can have both. All I'm saying is that one seems more important to me.
I used to think this way. I now see that as a mistake. It was my mistake, and may not be so for others (we each decide how to view our own decisions). I'm just sharing another point of view.

Placing value in achievement, personal growth and materialism over love and affection is dangerous, but so is the other way around. I've found what I think to be a better approach and it errs on the side of balance (equal priority between the two), with decisions made on a case by case basis depending on how much I value the conflicting sides.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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11/19/2014 10:26:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 8:54:51 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 4:28:00 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 3:53:33 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:16:36 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/18/2014 9:15:23 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Not at all. If you got a roof over your head, the woman you love lying in your bed, and shoes under your feet and food on the table... what else would you need?
At 11/18/2014 9:18:10 PM, Envisage wrote:
Sex

I'm pretty sure that was implied

On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?

I agree that the baseball game on its own doesn't matter, but what of achievements more generally?

True. But what do achievements matter if you're alone and miserable?

Some people are happy on their own, and some people, like me, have found that not working to achieve something leads to being alone and miserable.

I don't see what you're saying... That's a false dillemma. I never said "You're either on your own, or you have to work to achieve something."
I get the feeling you're fallacy hunting, when I'm not really at the point of making a rigorous argument. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my meaning.

We're talking about the relative priority of these criteria, it's not an all or nothing affair as you point out further along. Instead I am interested in what choice will be made in cases where these two values are in conflict (i.e. I have two actions available of which I can only choose one, and they meet different criteria)

Firstly, I challenge the assumption that everyone wants the love that you so expound. I do, but I can imagine others not.


Ok sure... I don't see what that matters. I'm just saying how I live my life and asking what you guys think of it :P Of course there's going to be people who don't think the same...

Secondly, I am pointing out that sometimes these criteria are mutually supporting and that neglecting one can lead to unexpected failures in another. Sometimes, choosing love over achievement can drive love away, and it is easier to see this happening if you value the achievements in the first place.


Sure. I agree. The two are related, yes. However, the idea of achievement seems subservient to the idea of love, for me at least.

This is how I interpret my experience, which is not to say that others will derive the same explanation.
It is not enough for me to love, I desire to be loved as well. And being loved requires something inner, something valuable that the other can love. Pursuing something greater that oneself is one way to show that inner value, and can attract love where you might not expect it.


Yes, I agree. But we can't really make other people love us. All we can do is make the choices for us. And if you love the people around yuo... well they're probably love you and you'll be loved :P

All I'm saying is that placing material goods above things such as love and good relationships with others is stupid and worthless.
I don't see where you said that. We were talking about working towards achieving something (you gave the specific example of winning a baseball game), not material gain.
Perhaps the issue at hand is about what priority of these criteria means. A simple preference between the two would predict that I always choose expression of love over material or personal gain. But I think we would both agree that it is more complex than that.


Yes, but ultimately achievements would be absolutely worthless without love... would love be worthless without materialistic achievements? Not really. Yes, achievements are good... but as Aristotle says, "Without friends no one would choose to live, though he had all other goods".

I would stress man's inherent social-ness and desire to love others and be loved over man's desire to accomplishments. But of course, you can have both. All I'm saying is that one seems more important to me.
I used to think this way. I now see that as a mistake. It was my mistake, and may not be so for others (we each decide how to view our own decisions). I'm just sharing another point of view.

Placing value in achievement, personal growth and materialism over love and affection is dangerous, but so is the other way around. I've found what I think to be a better approach and it errs on the side of balance (equal priority between the two), with decisions made on a case by case basis depending on how much I value the conflicting sides.

Well I disagree. I think that the value of love is much higher than anything materialistic. Yes, material things are good. However, I don't see an *excess* in these material things as being very important. Of course, we DO need food, and a place to live, etc. however, really, all you need is enough to get by comfortably. Power for the sake of power, or money for the sake of money is something I can't understand.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.
zmikecuber
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11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.
zmikecuber
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11/19/2014 10:36:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.

Oh... well I thin kthat if you live life in the way I'm arguing one should, then you would be happy throughout life. :P If you will die and look back at your life and fulfilling and worthwhile, wouldn't you feel the same *during* that life probably? I mean you would be going through life knowing that it is worthwhile...
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2014 10:49:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:36:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.

Oh... well I thin kthat if you live life in the way I'm arguing one should, then you would be happy throughout life. :P If you will die and look back at your life and fulfilling and worthwhile, wouldn't you feel the same *during* that life probably?

What about your baseball analogy? That baseball game that was won in high school meant a lot for a certain period of time, but you are saying that on your death bed that wouldn't matter. So, your argument seems contradictory... On one hand you are saying that what makes you happy when you are alive probably will not carry over into when you die (according to your baseball analogy), but on the other hand you say it probably will (according to your last post)....Which one is it?

I mean you would be going through life knowing that it is worthwhile...
Rational_Thinker9119
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11/19/2014 10:55:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:36:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.

Oh... well I thin kthat if you live life in the way I'm arguing one should, then you would be happy throughout life. :P If you will die and look back at your life and fulfilling and worthwhile, wouldn't you feel the same *during* that life probably? I mean you would be going through life knowing that it is worthwhile...

Also, if the baseball player lived by your philosophy, then he would not play baseball because he knows that it wouldn't matter to him on his death bed. But then he would miss out on the happiness of winning the game for that period of time! So, that, once more, places this arbitrary importance to your happiness on your death bed compared to your happiness during good health.
the_croftmeister
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11/19/2014 11:41:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:26:28 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:54:51 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?
You still haven't dealt with this.

Firstly, I challenge the assumption that everyone wants the love that you so expound. I do, but I can imagine others not.

Ok sure... I don't see what that matters. I'm just saying how I live my life and asking what you guys think of it :P Of course there's going to be people who don't think the same...
Were you looking for people to tell you to live your life differently? If so, I guess I'll leave you to it because I'm not interested in doing that. The way other people live their lives is supremely relevant since it provides an alternative viewpoint. Analyse what is different, decide whether there is something new you can take and apply to your view.

Secondly, I am pointing out that sometimes these criteria are mutually supporting and that neglecting one can lead to unexpected failures in another. Sometimes, choosing love over achievement can drive love away, and it is easier to see this happening if you value the achievements in the first place.

Sure. I agree. The two are related, yes. However, the idea of achievement seems subservient to the idea of love, for me at least.
I can understand this, as I said, I used to think this way. Perhaps in some strange way I still do since my change in philosophy was a result of love.

This is how I interpret my experience, which is not to say that others will derive the same explanation.
It is not enough for me to love, I desire to be loved as well. And being loved requires something inner, something valuable that the other can love. Pursuing something greater that oneself is one way to show that inner value, and can attract love where you might not expect it.

Yes, I agree. But we can't really make other people love us. All we can do is make the choices for us. And if you love the people around yuo... well they're probably love you and you'll be loved :P
My philosophy has nothing to do with making others love us, but about making/maintaining ourselves as someone who others want to love. Unfortunately, loving others is not enough in my experience. Love, like respect, is earned. Love, like a gift, is given.

All I'm saying is that placing material goods above things such as love and good relationships with others is stupid and worthless.
I don't see where you said that. We were talking about working towards achieving something (you gave the specific example of winning a baseball game), not material gain.
Perhaps the issue at hand is about what priority of these criteria means. A simple preference between the two would predict that I always choose expression of love over material or personal gain. But I think we would both agree that it is more complex than that.

Yes, but ultimately achievements would be absolutely worthless without love...
Here I disagree with you. Not about the worthlessness of achievements on their own, but on their contingency on love.

would love be worthless without materialistic achievements? Not really. Yes, achievements are good...
I'm not actually arguing that achievements are the valuable thing here. It is the process of working towards those achievements, of overcoming adversity and showing integrity and strength of character that I am valuing. These things sometimes require us to diverge from the path our love would lead us down.

but as Aristotle says, "Without friends no one would choose to live, though he had all other goods".
Here I disagree with Aristotle. I would still choose to live without friends. It would be a lesser existence, but preferable to none at all.

Placing value in achievement, personal growth and materialism over love and affection is dangerous, but so is the other way around. I've found what I think to be a better approach and it errs on the side of balance (equal priority between the two), with decisions made on a case by case basis depending on how much I value the conflicting sides.

Well I disagree. I think that the value of love is much higher than anything materialistic. Yes, material things are good. However, I don't see an *excess* in these material things as being very important. Of course, we DO need food, and a place to live, etc. however, really, all you need is enough to get by comfortably. Power for the sake of power, or money for the sake of money is something I can't understand.

Good to hear, though materialism is not at all what I am arguing for. It is dedication to a contribution to the world and human society as a whole that I am speaking of. Perhaps we are just seeking a different kind of love.
Blade-of-Truth
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11/20/2014 1:48:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 9:03:57 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
What do you guys think of my life philosophy?

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Envisage
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11/20/2014 7:51:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:55:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:36:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.

Oh... well I thin kthat if you live life in the way I'm arguing one should, then you would be happy throughout life. :P If you will die and look back at your life and fulfilling and worthwhile, wouldn't you feel the same *during* that life probably? I mean you would be going through life knowing that it is worthwhile...

Also, if the baseball player lived by your philosophy, then he would not play baseball because he knows that it wouldn't matter to him on his death bed. But then he would miss out on the happiness of winning the game for that period of time! So, that, once more, places this arbitrary importance to your happiness on your death bed compared to your happiness during good health.

I think we can conclude then, that the optimal life philosophy is to die whilst halfway through an orgasm by being shot in the head to experience instantaneous death.

Might as well make your deathbed your love seat, cheaper too.
zmikecuber
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11/20/2014 8:09:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 11:41:19 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:26:28 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:54:51 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 11/19/2014 1:58:56 AM, the_croftmeister wrote:
On a more related note. Can we really know what we're going to value on our death bed? Given how our choices now will have such a massive impact on the person we will be on that bed?
You still haven't dealt with this.


I think we can have a good idea, yes.

Firstly, I challenge the assumption that everyone wants the love that you so expound. I do, but I can imagine others not.

Ok sure... I don't see what that matters. I'm just saying how I live my life and asking what you guys think of it :P Of course there's going to be people who don't think the same...
Were you looking for people to tell you to live your life differently? If so, I guess I'll leave you to it because I'm not interested in doing that. The way other people live their lives is supremely relevant since it provides an alternative viewpoint. Analyse what is different, decide whether there is something new you can take and apply to your view.


Ok...

Secondly, I am pointing out that sometimes these criteria are mutually supporting and that neglecting one can lead to unexpected failures in another. Sometimes, choosing love over achievement can drive love away, and it is easier to see this happening if you value the achievements in the first place.

Sure. I agree. The two are related, yes. However, the idea of achievement seems subservient to the idea of love, for me at least.
I can understand this, as I said, I used to think this way. Perhaps in some strange way I still do since my change in philosophy was a result of love.

This is how I interpret my experience, which is not to say that others will derive the same explanation.
It is not enough for me to love, I desire to be loved as well. And being loved requires something inner, something valuable that the other can love. Pursuing something greater that oneself is one way to show that inner value, and can attract love where you might not expect it.

Yes, I agree. But we can't really make other people love us. All we can do is make the choices for us. And if you love the people around yuo... well they're probably love you and you'll be loved :P
My philosophy has nothing to do with making others love us, but about making/maintaining ourselves as someone who others want to love. Unfortunately, loving others is not enough in my experience. Love, like respect, is earned. Love, like a gift, is given.

All I'm saying is that placing material goods above things such as love and good relationships with others is stupid and worthless.
I don't see where you said that. We were talking about working towards achieving something (you gave the specific example of winning a baseball game), not material gain.
Perhaps the issue at hand is about what priority of these criteria means. A simple preference between the two would predict that I always choose expression of love over material or personal gain. But I think we would both agree that it is more complex than that.

Yes, but ultimately achievements would be absolutely worthless without love...
Here I disagree with you. Not about the worthlessness of achievements on their own, but on their contingency on love.

would love be worthless without materialistic achievements? Not really. Yes, achievements are good...
I'm not actually arguing that achievements are the valuable thing here. It is the process of working towards those achievements, of overcoming adversity and showing integrity and strength of character that I am valuing. These things sometimes require us to diverge from the path our love would lead us down.


Sure. Those are good things. I'm not denying that. However, they seem, to me, rather unfulfilling in themselves.

but as Aristotle says, "Without friends no one would choose to live, though he had all other goods".
Here I disagree with Aristotle. I would still choose to live without friends. It would be a lesser existence, but preferable to none at all.


Now to bounce the question at you... How can you really know that until you are in that position? If you were the last person on the earth and had whatever you wanted, would yo ube happy?

Placing value in achievement, personal growth and materialism over love and affection is dangerous, but so is the other way around. I've found what I think to be a better approach and it errs on the side of balance (equal priority between the two), with decisions made on a case by case basis depending on how much I value the conflicting sides.

Well I disagree. I think that the value of love is much higher than anything materialistic. Yes, material things are good. However, I don't see an *excess* in these material things as being very important. Of course, we DO need food, and a place to live, etc. however, really, all you need is enough to get by comfortably. Power for the sake of power, or money for the sake of money is something I can't understand.

Good to hear, though materialism is not at all what I am arguing for. It is dedication to a contribution to the world and human society as a whole that I am speaking of. Perhaps we are just seeking a different kind of love.

I'm not saying that other things aren't important. Just not as important.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
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11/20/2014 8:11:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:49:28 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:36:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:34:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:31:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:28:33 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:24:55 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:23:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:20:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:17:01 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2014 10:09:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:34:47 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/18/2014 8:45:25 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
Value things as you would when you're on your deathbed. Am I really going to care if I won that baseball game in highschool when I'm dying? No bloody way. However, I am going to worry about if I loved those around me enough.

There is nothing more tragic than lying on one's deathbed, realizing you failed to love.

But laying on your death bed is only one small fraction of the time you have on this Earth. What matters to you during most of your time here would surely be more important overall, no?

Perhaps. But I'm more concerned about having a good death and realizing I lived my life to the fullest, rather than having a miserable one.

I have no clue why... Considering your dying process is such a small fraction of the time you have. Why place so much importance on it?


I guess.. if you live a good life, you'll probably have a happy death.

Not really, you have a point that perhaps that basketball game won't mean much when you are dying, even though it made you happy when you were not. My only point is that even if this is the case, it doesn't matter, as the time that the basketball game did mean something to you is longer than the time it doesn't. It is a bigger portion of your life we are talking about.

Hum... I just find the idea of knowing my life will end, and it is absolutely impossible to go back and change anything terrifying. Especially if I've lived my life in a selfish way. Because when you die... well it's too late to change anything.

This could be true, but that wouldn't support the premise that what is important to you when you are dying trumps what is important to you when you are not dying.

I thought it sortof meant the same thing... I mean... live a life that you won't have regrets about when you die.

Obviously nobody wants to live a life that the regret about when they die, the point is that you haven't provided a reason to believe that this goal trumps the goal of living a life that we are happy with most of our time on this Earth when we are not dying. Your philosophy is that the former goal trumps the latter goal... I don't really see a reason to believe that.

I'd personally be happy throughout my life and live a good life, and have a happy death than seek pleasure throughout my life and then have a miserable lonely death. *Shrugs*

Well, yes, happy life and happy dying is obviously better than happy life and unhappy dying lol That is 2 positives compared to 1 positive and 1 negative so mathematically I won't argue with that. What I argue with is the claim that living a life that we would be happy with on our death bed trumps living a life that we would be happy with for most of our time living.

Oh... well I thin kthat if you live life in the way I'm arguing one should, then you would be happy throughout life. :P If you will die and look back at your life and fulfilling and worthwhile, wouldn't you feel the same *during* that life probably?

What about your baseball analogy? That baseball game that was won in high school meant a lot for a certain period of time, but you are saying that on your death bed that wouldn't matter. So, your argument seems contradictory... On one hand you are saying that what makes you happy when you are alive probably will not carry over into when you die (according to your baseball analogy), but on the other hand you say it probably will (according to your last post)....Which one is it?


I'm saying that winning a baseball game is good.. but if you lose it.. who really cares? it really doesn't have much value when you look at it this way. Sure, it can make you happy or whatever, but it's not important enough to make you unhappy. See what I mean?

I'm saying that if we find fulfillment and happiness primarily in relations to each other (in other ways too, such as baseball and whatever) then we will most likely live a happy life and have a happy death.

I mean you would be going through life knowing that it is worthwhile...
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."