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Is the present world a best case scenario?

tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/23/2014 8:22:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM, tabularasa wrote:
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?

Hell no.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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12/23/2014 9:05:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I wrote this ages ago as a mostly troll response to the problem of evil.

A.
1. Existence is either contingent or non-contingent (law of excluded middle)
2. If existence is non-contingent, it is necessary (for lack of another option)
3. Contingent things exist via an external cause
4. Necessary things exist because it couldn't have been otherwise
5. If existence were contingent, it would need an external reason for existence (p.3)
6. The only possible causes are from necessary or contingent things (P.1)
7. If a necessary thing existed, there would be no possible world in which nothing existed
8. If existence were contingent, there would be a possible world in which nothing existed
9. A necessary thing existing within a contingent existence is contradictory
10. If existence is contingent, it was not caused necessarily
11. If it was not caused necessarily, it was caused contingently
12. Contingent existence cannot be a cause within itself for that is necessary existence
13 If existence were contingent, it would have nothing to cause it
14. If existence were contingent, nothing would exist
15. Something exists
16. Therefore existence is necessary. There is no possible world in which nothing exists

B.

1. Reality equals the totality of all facts
2. Every fact is equal to itself (A = A)
3. This is a necessary truth
4. Thus, all facts about existence are equal to themselves and couldn't be otherwise
5. Part of what constitutes a fact is what the fact entails or produces
6. If A entails x, then A entails x
7. A cannot entail x while A entails ~x
8. Therefore the state of reality at time A can only result in one possible future state of reality
9. So everything that occurs in reality occurs because it must occur
10. Thus, for every occurrence, there is a sufficient reason
11. Thus, all facts exist necessarily
12. Thus, all of reality is necessary
13. Therefore, this is the only possible world

C.
1. The problem of evil assumes God fails to choose the best possible world
2. Since this is the only possible world, it would be necessarily impossible for God to choose a better world
3. Thus, this is the best possible world
4. Thus the problem of evil fails.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/24/2014 4:48:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 9:05:22 PM, phantom wrote:
I wrote this ages ago as a mostly troll response to the problem of evil.

A.
1. Existence is either contingent or non-contingent (law of excluded middle)
2. If existence is non-contingent, it is necessary (for lack of another option)
3. Contingent things exist via an external cause
4. Necessary things exist because it couldn't have been otherwise
5. If existence were contingent, it would need an external reason for existence (p.3)
6. The only possible causes are from necessary or contingent things (P.1)
7. If a necessary thing existed, there would be no possible world in which nothing existed
8. If existence were contingent, there would be a possible world in which nothing existed
9. A necessary thing existing within a contingent existence is contradictory
10. If existence is contingent, it was not caused necessarily
11. If it was not caused necessarily, it was caused contingently
12. Contingent existence cannot be a cause within itself for that is necessary existence
13 If existence were contingent, it would have nothing to cause it
14. If existence were contingent, nothing would exist
15. Something exists
16. Therefore existence is necessary. There is no possible world in which nothing exists

B.

1. Reality equals the totality of all facts
2. Every fact is equal to itself (A = A)
3. This is a necessary truth
4. Thus, all facts about existence are equal to themselves and couldn't be otherwise
5. Part of what constitutes a fact is what the fact entails or produces
6. If A entails x, then A entails x
7. A cannot entail x while A entails ~x
8. Therefore the state of reality at time A can only result in one possible future state of reality
9. So everything that occurs in reality occurs because it must occur
10. Thus, for every occurrence, there is a sufficient reason
11. Thus, all facts exist necessarily
12. Thus, all of reality is necessary
13. Therefore, this is the only possible world

C.
1. The problem of evil assumes God fails to choose the best possible world
2. Since this is the only possible world, it would be necessarily impossible for God to choose a better world
3. Thus, this is the best possible world
4. Thus the problem of evil fails.

A. In order that I might understand your argument more perfectly, please define these words: existence, contingent, non-contingent, necessary, external reason for existence.
I do not understand why point 9 equates necessary existence with contingent existence, and points 10 and 11 make contingent existence and necessary existence mutually exclusive. How am I misunderstanding you?

Please boil down this argument into one sentence for me. I am a little slow, please forgive me.

B. I deeply appreciate this argument. Please summarize in one sentence.

C. Is this Leibniz argument or your take on his argument? I do not agree with it. Please summarize in one sentence.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Student4Life1975
Posts: 57
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4/24/2015 4:23:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM, tabularasa wrote:
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?

Definately not, and i think every human being on Earth can sense it to one extent or another. The Human race chose a path long ago and its not the one we SHOULD be on if you want to maximize things like Well Being and unity. The best scenario would not involve suffering.
there is no progress without compromise"
difference
Posts: 177
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4/26/2015 12:07:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 4:23:41 AM, Student4Life1975 wrote:
At 12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM, tabularasa wrote:
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?

Definately not, and i think every human being on Earth can sense it to one extent or another. The Human race chose a path long ago and its not the one we SHOULD be on if you want to maximize things like Well Being and unity. The best scenario would not involve suffering.

I don't think it was up to the human race whether there would be suffering or not.
And about the best case scenario...there is no suffering without life :)
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/26/2015 2:05:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 9:05:22 PM, phantom wrote:
I wrote this ages ago as a mostly troll response to the problem of evil.

A.
1. Existence is either contingent or non-contingent (law of excluded middle)
2. If existence is non-contingent, it is necessary (for lack of another option)
3. Contingent things exist via an external cause
4. Necessary things exist because it couldn't have been otherwise
5. If existence were contingent, it would need an external reason for existence (p.3)
6. The only possible causes are from necessary or contingent things (P.1)
7. If a necessary thing existed, there would be no possible world in which nothing existed
8. If existence were contingent, there would be a possible world in which nothing existed
9. A necessary thing existing within a contingent existence is contradictory
10. If existence is contingent, it was not caused necessarily
11. If it was not caused necessarily, it was caused contingently
12. Contingent existence cannot be a cause within itself for that is necessary existence
13 If existence were contingent, it would have nothing to cause it
14. If existence were contingent, nothing would exist
15. Something exists
16. Therefore existence is necessary. There is no possible world in which nothing exists

B.

1. Reality equals the totality of all facts
2. Every fact is equal to itself (A = A)
3. This is a necessary truth
4. Thus, all facts about existence are equal to themselves and couldn't be otherwise
5. Part of what constitutes a fact is what the fact entails or produces
6. If A entails x, then A entails x
7. A cannot entail x while A entails ~x
8. Therefore the state of reality at time A can only result in one possible future state of reality
9. So everything that occurs in reality occurs because it must occur
10. Thus, for every occurrence, there is a sufficient reason
11. Thus, all facts exist necessarily
12. Thus, all of reality is necessary
13. Therefore, this is the only possible world

C.
1. The problem of evil assumes God fails to choose the best possible world
2. Since this is the only possible world, it would be necessarily impossible for God to choose a better world
3. Thus, this is the best possible world
4. Thus the problem of evil fails.

Lol. Have you won any debate/ Convinced anyone with this?
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/26/2015 7:41:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/26/2015 2:05:49 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 12/23/2014 9:05:22 PM, phantom wrote:
I wrote this ages ago as a mostly troll response to the problem of evil.

A.
1. Existence is either contingent or non-contingent (law of excluded middle)
2. If existence is non-contingent, it is necessary (for lack of another option)
3. Contingent things exist via an external cause
4. Necessary things exist because it couldn't have been otherwise
5. If existence were contingent, it would need an external reason for existence (p.3)
6. The only possible causes are from necessary or contingent things (P.1)
7. If a necessary thing existed, there would be no possible world in which nothing existed
8. If existence were contingent, there would be a possible world in which nothing existed
9. A necessary thing existing within a contingent existence is contradictory
10. If existence is contingent, it was not caused necessarily
11. If it was not caused necessarily, it was caused contingently
12. Contingent existence cannot be a cause within itself for that is necessary existence
13 If existence were contingent, it would have nothing to cause it
14. If existence were contingent, nothing would exist
15. Something exists
16. Therefore existence is necessary. There is no possible world in which nothing exists

B.

1. Reality equals the totality of all facts
2. Every fact is equal to itself (A = A)
3. This is a necessary truth
4. Thus, all facts about existence are equal to themselves and couldn't be otherwise
5. Part of what constitutes a fact is what the fact entails or produces
6. If A entails x, then A entails x
7. A cannot entail x while A entails ~x
8. Therefore the state of reality at time A can only result in one possible future state of reality
9. So everything that occurs in reality occurs because it must occur
10. Thus, for every occurrence, there is a sufficient reason
11. Thus, all facts exist necessarily
12. Thus, all of reality is necessary
13. Therefore, this is the only possible world

C.
1. The problem of evil assumes God fails to choose the best possible world
2. Since this is the only possible world, it would be necessarily impossible for God to choose a better world
3. Thus, this is the best possible world
4. Thus the problem of evil fails.

Lol. Have you won any debate/ Convinced anyone with this?

I haven't tried it in a debate. It could be effective provided my opponent was incompetent. But it's very easy to refute, so I doubt anyone could be convinced of it--just because anyone capable of understanding it would be intelligent enough to recognize how weak it is.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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4/26/2015 8:50:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM, tabularasa wrote:
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?

I can see where you're going with this. By that logic, it's also the worst possible world.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/26/2015 11:41:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/26/2015 7:41:19 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/26/2015 2:05:49 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 12/23/2014 9:05:22 PM, phantom wrote:
I wrote this ages ago as a mostly troll response to the problem of evil.

A.
1. Existence is either contingent or non-contingent (law of excluded middle)
2. If existence is non-contingent, it is necessary (for lack of another option)
3. Contingent things exist via an external cause
4. Necessary things exist because it couldn't have been otherwise
5. If existence were contingent, it would need an external reason for existence (p.3)
6. The only possible causes are from necessary or contingent things (P.1)
7. If a necessary thing existed, there would be no possible world in which nothing existed
8. If existence were contingent, there would be a possible world in which nothing existed
9. A necessary thing existing within a contingent existence is contradictory
10. If existence is contingent, it was not caused necessarily
11. If it was not caused necessarily, it was caused contingently
12. Contingent existence cannot be a cause within itself for that is necessary existence
13 If existence were contingent, it would have nothing to cause it
14. If existence were contingent, nothing would exist
15. Something exists
16. Therefore existence is necessary. There is no possible world in which nothing exists

B.

1. Reality equals the totality of all facts
2. Every fact is equal to itself (A = A)
3. This is a necessary truth
4. Thus, all facts about existence are equal to themselves and couldn't be otherwise
5. Part of what constitutes a fact is what the fact entails or produces
6. If A entails x, then A entails x
7. A cannot entail x while A entails ~x
8. Therefore the state of reality at time A can only result in one possible future state of reality
9. So everything that occurs in reality occurs because it must occur
10. Thus, for every occurrence, there is a sufficient reason
11. Thus, all facts exist necessarily
12. Thus, all of reality is necessary
13. Therefore, this is the only possible world

C.
1. The problem of evil assumes God fails to choose the best possible world
2. Since this is the only possible world, it would be necessarily impossible for God to choose a better world
3. Thus, this is the best possible world
4. Thus the problem of evil fails.

Lol. Have you won any debate/ Convinced anyone with this?

I haven't tried it in a debate. It could be effective provided my opponent was incompetent. But it's very easy to refute, so I doubt anyone could be convinced of it--just because anyone capable of understanding it would be intelligent enough to recognize how weak it is.

That's why Im asking ^^
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/27/2015 1:56:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do any of you wish you were born on the other side of the globe, as a Hindu or Buddhist, with absolutely no connection to life in this hemisphere? Cause I do!

Oh, how I absolutely hate my life and this world right now! This is way way worse than cancer! Hopefully I'm in an accident soon! :))
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/27/2015 2:03:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For many people, this best case scenario is pretty good. For me, it sucks beyond explanation. This world = Absolute Fail.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/27/2015 2:03:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For many people, this best case scenario is pretty good. For me, it sucks beyond explanation. This world = Absolute Fail.
Student4Life1975
Posts: 57
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4/28/2015 7:53:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/26/2015 12:07:44 PM, difference wrote:
At 4/24/2015 4:23:41 AM, Student4Life1975 wrote:
At 12/23/2014 6:04:22 PM, tabularasa wrote:
The current physical and social configuration of our world and universe is the best scenario that could possibly exist at this moment.

What say you?

Definately not, and i think every human being on Earth can sense it to one extent or another. The Human race chose a path long ago and its not the one we SHOULD be on if you want to maximize things like Well Being and unity. The best scenario would not involve suffering.

I don't think it was up to the human race whether there would be suffering or not.
And about the best case scenario...there is no suffering without life :)

The Human Race as a whole has made the choices to take the path we have, and even if many of us think we're not at fault for just following the leads of others, if we arent trying to invoke change to alleviate the suffering of others, we have to be accountable for it.
there is no progress without compromise"