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Simulation

DevinKing
Posts: 206
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12/25/2014 12:41:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Question. What is the difference -if any- between a complex thought or computation and a simulation? Similarly, is a computer simulation analogous to a human brain imagining something in detail?

I am inclined to think that there is no difference in principle, but that a thought involving an object will typically be less encompassing of that object than a delibrate simulation.

Thoughts?
After demonstrating his existence with complete certainty with the proposition "I think, therefore I am", Descartes walks into a bar, sitting next to a gorgeous priest. The priest asks Descartes, "Would you like a drink?" Descartes responds, "I think not," and then proceeds to vanish in a puff of illogic.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/25/2014 12:00:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On the outside it looks as though there is no real difference. However, if you where to actually see the process going on to reach a conclusion by a human and computer then you could see the difference. The main difference is that a computer reaches its conclusions based off of rules given to it. Whereas a human doesn't follow a direct set of rules. We make our own rules or skip rules all together.

The simplest way of explaining it is that a computer "simulates" and human brain, it doesn't recreate it. Until we can create a computer that is truly self aware and can program itself computers will continue to rely on humans to form conclusions on problems. Whereas a human does not rely on a computer to reach the same conclusion.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/26/2014 9:24:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 12:41:21 AM, DevinKing wrote:
Question. What is the difference -if any- between a complex thought or computation and a simulation? Similarly, is a computer simulation analogous to a human brain imagining something in detail?

I am inclined to think that there is no difference in principle, but that a thought involving an object will typically be less encompassing of that object than a delibrate simulation.

Thoughts

I do not think there is any difference in a sufficiently complex simulation. The simulation would have to be able to make connections between abstract and concrete concepts. Abstraction being an open handle to connect another concrete concept there by linking to different concrete concepts. Will or volition would be hard to simulate as well.

This assumes there is no soul or spirit like influence on complex systems.

And such thinking could be extrapolated to the universe as a whole. Core is what is self aware? Is it emergent from a sufficiently complex array?
tabularasa
Posts: 200
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12/26/2014 11:55:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 12:41:21 AM, DevinKing wrote:
Question. What is the difference -if any- between a complex thought or computation and a simulation? Similarly, is a computer simulation analogous to a human brain imagining something in detail?

I am inclined to think that there is no difference in principle, but that a thought involving an object will typically be less encompassing of that object than a delibrate simulation.

Thoughts?

I believe that they are very analogous. Even human beings make decisions based on rules and appetites, such as the cost benefit analysis or hunger.

That being said, who would ever know if a computer could develop consciousness at the same level as humans. It is as if one would have to be human and then a computer successively in order to know if the computer possesses consciousness at the same level as a human does.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Range
Posts: 29
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1/1/2015 12:19:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What if everything around us is a simulation?
I got really high one day and got into a lucid dream, and I kinda thought, as I was jumping around in purple feathers, slime, and crisp orange air, my brain is like a huge machine creating this wonderful little situation for my little flailing avatar there to experience. I woke up immediately in what others told me a conspiracy craze, saying that we're all in one huge simulation.
I considered this childish train of thought my poor past self had to ride through, and I figured, well, I could accept that. It would be a simulation and I wouldn't care either way.
One conclusion: it's all a big lucid dream, make the most of it and have fun.
Second conclusion: mess with the programmers by becoming president or whatever.
Third conclusion: fight the system. I don't know how but good luck.
Forth conclusion: lead a happy fulfilling life like your sims never did. Don't do anything stupid and live well, just to mess with the creators even more.
Anything can be justified. You just need a solid framework and some duct tape.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/9/2015 12:53:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 12:41:21 AM, DevinKing wrote:
Question. What is the difference -if any- between a complex thought or computation and a simulation? Similarly, is a computer simulation analogous to a human brain imagining something in detail?

I am inclined to think that there is no difference in principle, but that a thought involving an object will typically be less encompassing of that object than a delibrate simulation.

Thoughts?

Anything done with computers involves number which is a perfect concept. There is only one number, the number one, and all other numbers as signs relate to one in an exact ratio. One is always one. In no other sense is this identity as true. The conceived dog is never exactly as the real dog for example. Words do not function as numbers, and when they are used with a view of truth and true communication they are more like painting than mathematics.

Computer simulation should be easier by far, and would be if people did not ahve to think and move the process along.. One thing that should be a piece of cake, simply by plugging in a formula is rate of speed increase or decrease as a result of the force of gravity. This is a simple formula and yet it appears noticeably wrong in movie after movie. The eye can see it. But the eyes cannot draw the formula out of experience. Still if you see things thrown up, or falling down, their rate changes. There is another difference that seems obvious. Digital simulation is usually an end in itself. If I were to think out the movement through a building of a large beam that had to clear certain columns and then pee whistle (turn end for end) before being hoisted into place, the thought is not the object, but the object is the end of the process in fact.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/14/2015 6:45:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 12:53:54 AM, Fido wrote:
At 12/25/2014 12:41:21 AM, DevinKing wrote:
Question. What is the difference -if any- between a complex thought or computation and a simulation? Similarly, is a computer simulation analogous to a human brain imagining something in detail?

I am inclined to think that there is no difference in principle, but that a thought involving an object will typically be less encompassing of that object than a delibrate simulation.

Thoughts?

Anything done with computers involves number which is a perfect concept. There is only one number, the number one, and all other numbers as signs relate to one in an exact ratio. One is always one. In no other sense is this identity as true. The conceived dog is never exactly as the real dog for example. Words do not function as numbers, and when they are used with a view of truth and true communication they are more like painting than mathematics.


I would argue 0 is the perfect number. I think the truth is encapsulated from expression by systems of description.

Computer simulation should be easier by far, and would be if people did not ahve to think and move the process along.. One thing that should be a piece of cake, simply by plugging in a formula is rate of speed increase or decrease as a result of the force of gravity. This is a simple formula and yet it appears noticeably wrong in movie after movie. The eye can see it. But the eyes cannot draw the formula out of experience. Still if you see things thrown up, or falling down, their rate changes. There is another difference that seems obvious. Digital simulation is usually an end in itself. If I were to think out the movement through a building of a large beam that had to clear certain columns and then pee whistle (turn end for end) before being hoisted into place, the thought is not the object, but the object is the end of the process in fact.