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Is religion necessary?

Skyangel
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1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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1/7/2015 4:21:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The love and lust for fantasy and fictional realities is what drives the earthly world.

If we want to better understand why so called adults choose to believe in fantasy inspired fictions.

All we need do is examine why most small children are attracted to the realm of fantasy and fictions more so then the world of reality, truth and fact that is within and without/outside them.

Superstition mixed with doubt + fear = confusion that most times leads to unjustified anger.

The illusion of money and what it might bring and do is what fuels the fantasy and fictional realm.

Free your mind and your behind will follow.

put on the mind of the ONE Truth that is NOT subjective.

Many might say that there is no such thing as truth that is not subjective.

consider this if you please.......

how for does "outer space" go out from around the planet earth?

If infinity is possible then a ONE Truth that is NOT subjective and would always be correct is also possible.

If a person can understand themselves and others with a unconditional love that is NOT fake.
They would have NO requirement or need for religions and other such popular entertainment, past times/hobbies.

With all the entertainment, hobby and past time choices available we have a free will choice to pick the ones WE personally prefer and not bow down to superstitious programing.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/7/2015 10:02:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

If we look at the social world in which religion has meaning and exist it is impossible for us to tell if it is necessary or not. We have the words, I believe of Thomas Aquinas who said in the same vein a Occam that: Nature is not surfeit in superfluities. Or in the words or Archie Bunker: God put hands on the ends of our arms where he knew they would be handy.

Perhaps religion has always grown up in response to a need. Children and the neurotic are all given to magical thinking. We are very small even at our best and brightest against the wall of our ignorance. The defense of Oedipus, that: I did what I did not knowing what I did- could be the complaint of all of humanity. If we were not inclined to act against the accepted rules even out of ignorance we would have accomplished little. What if our greatest curse is our greatest strength?

Clearly people feel they need some knowledge beyond their own ignorance, and so religion as theory has been our first science. Asking why humanity has not progressed beyond that first theory, I ask: who has tried? Our Christianity has the support of a state religion and from that privilege the religions control our educational systems and the government. Can we do better? Yes, but what comes first; the change of mind, or the change of reality? Even with the support of the government and with privileges, the churches must advertise to fill their chairs. Religion is a growth industry with zero growth. And as the rest of the forms of society fail, religion which should represent an older form of relationship- should be swelled by the disappointed and desperate. People do cling to their religions. These are the pagans and heathens of our age. They will be the last to accept a new society and a new form of relationship.

My point is: That when Christianity was taking over Pagan Europe it did so by taking over what was a sufficient and more natural morality. You can lay the Christian calendar over the Pagan calendar and see that ours copies theirs. Even the names of our days are in the majority named after Pagan Gods. Islam for its part did not once try to attack native customs, but only attacked Paganism. Much that was native in Europe's Germanic culture took centuries to eradicate, and there are still vestiges. In the Americas, Jesus was already the typical cultural hero because of his sacrifice for humanity. Sacrifice for society is a universal virtue among primitives. Those who equate God to Santa Clause, who inspire giving with the receiving of material wealth really do not capture the spirit of Jesus, which is about giving meaning to our almost inevitable sacrifice.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/7/2015 10:22:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 4:21:54 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
The love and lust for fantasy and fictional realities is what drives the earthly world.

If we want to better understand why so called adults choose to believe in fantasy inspired fictions.

All we need do is examine why most small children are attracted to the realm of fantasy and fictions more so then the world of reality, truth and fact that is within and without/outside them.

Superstition mixed with doubt + fear = confusion that most times leads to unjustified anger.

The illusion of money and what it might bring and do is what fuels the fantasy and fictional realm.

Free your mind and your behind will follow.

put on the mind of the ONE Truth that is NOT subjective.

Many might say that there is no such thing as truth that is not subjective.

consider this if you please.......

how for does "outer space" go out from around the planet earth?

If infinity is possible then a ONE Truth that is NOT subjective and would always be correct is also possible.

If a person can understand themselves and others with a unconditional love that is NOT fake.
They would have NO requirement or need for religions and other such popular entertainment, past times/hobbies.

With all the entertainment, hobby and past time choices available we have a free will choice to pick the ones WE personally prefer and not bow down to superstitious programming.

I would be willing to bet that you could spend the balance of your life time collating all of your bits and pieces of thought into a cohesive whole. You might have to do a lot of reading, and give time to thinking and organizing, but I think you might be successful even if you end up being wrong in your conclusions. I was fortunate that my job did not use all of the intelligence I brought to it. But; I could not simply pull out a book. What I read off site, I could give thought to during the course of a day. Of what I read, I asked: Is this true? Good luck.

I would suggest that nothing of humanity, culturally or physically has grown up without a need. Ideas, for example, like Justice and Honor have been with us since the dawn of history and before. If people carried these ideas before they had wheels or horses, when only necessities were kept and all else was abandoned, does this not speak of the necessity of these ideas? God; Magic, Spirituality is a cultural fact. People's imaginations were always at work along with their dreams and desires. We can reach God today as easily by reaching the end of our knowledge. Our thoughts of God which make God very small and easily managed tell us more about humanity than about God. Even back to Genesis, God is a mirror for man. Men take the credit, and give God the blame. The fault is in us, and the solution too; but today we are too irrational for that solution
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation. That child who never asks why, or how -is exactly the one who will not question the faith of his family, but will only carry on. Some child will ask after the wires in the wall, but to tear down the wall is simply the beginning of tearing secrets out of reality, and it is too easy to become Faustus, and say never: Enough.

Primitive people were no different from ourselves in most respects. They recognized the vast power of nature, and how much their lives hung by a thread. They wanted power over their reality just as we want power over ours. To find in those forces distinct personalities, qualities unique to each- was the beginning of science and philosophy.

Even today, when we project onto the power of nature and reality distinct value judgments of Good and Evil we are projecting our own nature on forces unseen. Not one thing humanity has done with the consciousness and quasi concept of God has ever tended to make God Larger, and mankind smaller. We have made God small and made ourselves the center of his attention. It is this smallness of being, purpose, and focus that makes me reject the God of formal religion. I find it hard to accept a God who can care about each of us when we cannot manage to care for any of us. Can we not set a good example for God? Why do we expect God to do that which we cannot find the heart to do?
Clovis
Posts: 191
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1/8/2015 11:44:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation. That child who never asks why, or how -is exactly the one who will not question the faith of his family, but will only carry on. Some child will ask after the wires in the wall, but to tear down the wall is simply the beginning of tearing secrets out of reality, and it is too easy to become Faustus, and say never: Enough.

Primitive people were no different from ourselves in most respects. They recognized the vast power of nature, and how much their lives hung by a thread. They wanted power over their reality just as we want power over ours. To find in those forces distinct personalities, qualities unique to each- was the beginning of science and philosophy.

Even today, when we project onto the power of nature and reality distinct value judgments of Good and Evil we are projecting our own nature on forces unseen. Not one thing humanity has done with the consciousness and quasi concept of God has ever tended to make God Larger, and mankind smaller. We have made God small and made ourselves the center of his attention. It is this smallness of being, purpose, and focus that makes me reject the God of formal religion. I find it hard to accept a God who can care about each of us when we cannot manage to care for any of us. Can we not set a good example for God? Why do we expect God to do that which we cannot find the heart to do?

Ah the age old "God is only us trying to explain the unknown" addage. Unforuntately I do not think that that can really hold any longer. God is and has been and will be much more than simply an explanation for things we cannot know.
Words are wind.

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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1/8/2015 11:49:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

If you want your standards and morals to be justified beyond your own personal preference, then yes.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 12:35:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Clovis;

Even scientist believe in God. The more we push back the veil of the unknown, the more unknown we find. The reason God once was needed to explain the unknown is because too much wonder, and too little work made men extinct. If Aristotle was correct that philosophy is the first thing people turn to with leisure, it has also added to our leisure and multiplied those able to question reality. In the time of Aristotle, little luxury was built on much labor; and because questions have always kept pace with our ability to test and to measure science has progressed even against the assurance of people in religion that we already know all we need to know, and we do.

We do not need more science to better treat each other with inhumanity. Nor does science teach us how to share, to care, and to understand. Organized Religion which has always taken over moral societies and made them less so is for the most part: Forms and formality. Real social relationships are informal. Jesus railed against the formality of Judaism relating to God through priests and laws, and taught a psychological relationship with a God knowing exactly what was in our hearts. People like forms because they are easy, and easy to evade, and easy to turn to ones own benefit, and Jesus got that. That open ended relationship with God and fellow human beings is difficult.

So, yes; God does answer a lot of the childish questions of mankind, but not all. Belief is the enemy of thought and of knowledge, and fortunately, people are more moral than their religions or their social law requires or else neither law nor religion could control people. The basis of morality are in place long before a child can even talk, and long before logic can be learned.

To try to reduce morality to so many precepts as religion often does really misses the point. Morality is the result of the moral person. Morality is what moral people do. No sooner have people made laws than they made loopholes. At least the ten commandments addressed the problem as it should be addressed psychologically. Look at how many of these laws are directed at the mind of the individual. Who knows what is in anther's mind, and yet in the mind is where sins first occur.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 12:46:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:49:08 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

If you want your standards and morals to be justified beyond your own personal preference, then yes.

You have to be really careful with that word: Justified. Injustice is always justified. I can almost be certain I am doing something I should not in the moment I justify.
You may find that all that is truly just- needs no justification. What is just is usually just on its face, and from every angle.

To me; philosophy is morality; ethics to be exact. It is because no one ever kills another over the definition of a square, a circle, or any other physical form. It is for those spiritual qualities which are infinite and cannot be defined like God, like Love, like Freedom, like Happiness that people fight and die over. People find these qualities, these moral forms essential to their lives and relationships. Because they are at base irrational they are the perfect excuse for irrational behavior. The problem is how to bring as much reason and understanding to our conversations of morality as is possible
Df0512
Posts: 966
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1/8/2015 2:17:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

Someone with religious beliefs would say yes we do need religion. For your second question, religion is not the source of morality. Morals are how we coexist. Of course people wouldn't behave the same but for better or worse...l dont know. I'm would almost believe that without religion humanity could have avoided many dark times in history, which could have quickened technological milestones in the future or our present.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 4:31:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:17:51 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

Someone with religious beliefs would say yes we do need religion. For your second question, religion is not the source of morality. Morals are how we coexist. Of course people wouldn't behave the same but for better or worse...l don't know. I'm would almost believe that without religion humanity could have avoided many dark times in history, which could have quickened technological milestones in the future or our present.

I would suggest that the element of certainty makes people much more sanguine in their use of violence. Consider how people would burn each other and torture during the Protestant Reformation. Within a few years they found reason to get along, but religion egged them on. Think of the Auto-de-Fe's of Spain and Portugal. Where they could find no informers and could not soak the people for fines their business was quickly done. Neighbors willing to feed neighbors to the fire for revenge were in some places never in short supply. It makes me wonder what humanity ever did before religion to excuse their inhumanity.
aglassdarkly
Posts: 4
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1/8/2015 5:42:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation.
Apparently we need a better definition of religion. I don't know how nuclear fusion works, but it doesn't become a religion to me and I don't give it a magical explanation.

Clovis had a good point regarding the OP. What do you mean "necessary?" I'm not sure I've heard anyone argue that religion is required for living or engaging in ethical judgements.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 5:56:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 5:42:57 PM, aglassdarkly wrote:
At 1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation.
Apparently we need a better definition of religion. I don't know how nuclear fusion works, but it doesn't become a religion to me and I don't give it a magical explanation.

Clovis had a good point regarding the OP. What do you mean "necessary?" I'm not sure I've heard anyone argue that religion is required for living or engaging in ethical judgements.

Sorry; I never said it was necessary; but it certainly is natural. What we cannot explain we explain none the less.
aglassdarkly
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1/8/2015 6:51:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 5:56:03 PM, Fido wrote:
Sorry; I never said it was necessary; but it certainly is natural. What we cannot explain we explain none the less.
My comment about necessity was directed at the OP. But I agree that religion is natural, which makes me wonder... why would we have developed a natural/inherent propensity toward religiousness? Is it significant for survival? Does it give us some kind of advantage? If it didn't come from God, how did we get it?

My comment about religion was directed at you, though. Religion is more than mere wonder. Maybe it starts with wonder, but we wonder about many things that never turn into religions. And religion is more than trying to explain things we don't understand. I don't know anyone who would argue that I've developed some kind of religion as I attempt to explain how Teller does that flower and shadow trick (which I haven't been able to figure out). So your description of religion fails to simple counter-examples.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 7:32:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 6:51:17 PM, aglassdarkly wrote:
At 1/8/2015 5:56:03 PM, Fido wrote:
Sorry; I never said it was necessary; but it certainly is natural. What we cannot explain we explain none the less.
My comment about necessity was directed at the OP. But I agree that religion is natural, which makes me wonder... Why would we have developed a natural/inherent propensity toward religiousness? Is it significant for survival? Does it give us some kind of advantage? If it didn't come from God, how did we get it?

My comment about religion was directed at you, though. Religion is more than mere wonder. Maybe it starts with wonder, but we wonder about many things that never turn into religions. And religion is more than trying to explain things we don't understand. I don't know anyone who would argue that I've developed some kind of religion as I attempt to explain how Teller does that flower and shadow trick (which I haven't been able to figure out). So your description of religion fails to simple counter-examples.

I do not think we develop a natural inherent propensity toward religion. We have vivid imaginations. We see horrors in the dark when we cannot see at all. Religion is part of a higher function based upon lower functions. We see an order in the universe, and such order brings to mind an organizing force. We see the forces of nature before our eyes and yet chance makes us consider the possibility of mercy. We find ourselves lonely, and more lonely in modern times than in days past, and in this vast universe empty of life, God holds our hands. We are conscious of death and perhaps no other animal is, and we want life eternal from the fear of death.

There are a thousand and one reasons for our religious beliefs; but as we can see those beliefs in evolution through primitive humanity, and in children -we can also see religion as an intellectual growth. We make God small, almost a pet with our religion. Still, only the hopeless truly believe. There is a lot of wish fulfilment in God, and if God does not answer our prayers, and is not really real, God still answers our needs -real or not. Some people absolutely refuse to believe God does not exist. Others simply believe because they understand they are still the child who once believed. I would otherwise think God irrelevant, but it is impossible to understand humanity without understanding religion as a form of relationship.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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1/8/2015 7:55:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religion comes from superstitions.

Very few have NO superstitions what so ever.

I Am one of those people.

It wasn't always this way for me.

When younger I was superstitious like most others.

But as I grew up and matured in body and mind I discovered that superstition was for small children and those that are much to lazy and stubborn to grow up and leave the childish ways behind them.

I basically grew up as I was tired of hauling a full load around with me that was not necessary.

So I tossed the nappy of my bondage away and found that I was free from the poo that follows you around slowing you down.

The immature always require a place to place the blame for what they don't want to take responsibility for.

Religion provides the perfect scape goat. Or rather escape boat...
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/8/2015 9:17:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

Yes. This is proven by all the people who don't believe in Gods and/or deities, who are able to live meaningful lives with a healthy moral compass.

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I think that gets a yes and no, people would still believe in doing the right thing for other people, empathy and love exist independently from religion. I also think that perhaps in the absence of religion we would have fewer prejudices and less cultural conflicts.

With all that being said I believe that religion was an inevitable part of human social/psychological evolution and development. And if we don't kill each other first, one day we will evolve beyond Gods and adopt a more spiritual philosophy that promotes investing in the best mortal life that we can live rather than focusing our energies on an immortal afterlife.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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1/8/2015 10:26:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Nothing new under the sun when the popular MA$$E$ want to try and have their FUN.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/8/2015 10:48:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 7:55:40 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Religion comes from superstitions.

Very few have NO superstitions what so ever.

I Am one of those people.

It wasn't always this way for me.

When younger I was superstitious like most others.

But as I grew up and matured in body and mind I discovered that superstition was for small children and those that are much to lazy and stubborn to grow up and leave the childish ways behind them.

I basically grew up as I was tired of hauling a full load around with me that was not necessary.

So I tossed the nappy of my bondage away and found that I was free from the poo that follows you around slowing you down.

The immature always require a place to place the blame for what they don't want to take responsibility for.

Religion provides the perfect scape goat. Or rather escape boat...

That is an Okay answer. Superstition has its religious elements. So does magic. There is a lot of ritual in superstition. There is direct equals in magic. For example: The magic wands or staffs. Even the words: Hocus pokus comes from the Latin mass, where God was supposed to enter the bread of communion. He would raise the bread before all and say: Hoc es Corpus: This is the Body. Correctly said: Religion is a growth out of spiritualism, where everything is considered to have a spirit, and then Animism where animals are thought to have a spirit. Superstition is the sort of ritual behavior that people pick up that governs good fortune. With all ritual people try to recreate the past in the future by recreating one element of the past. The fact that neurotics very often practice such ritualistic behavior is a give away of the mind set around such practice. But even of expressions like Good Luck, and old Norse god is invoked. It is hard to escape religion even with great effort.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/9/2015 3:38:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

I am asking whether it is a necessary part of life or whether people can live life without it yet still retain the same morals and standards without worshiping invisible characters.

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

I can't see how worshiping invisible characters helps anyone live a better life in reality. I think it causes people to become lost in fantasy and superstition.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/9/2015 3:46:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:44:03 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation. That child who never asks why, or how -is exactly the one who will not question the faith of his family, but will only carry on. Some child will ask after the wires in the wall, but to tear down the wall is simply the beginning of tearing secrets out of reality, and it is too easy to become Faustus, and say never: Enough.

Primitive people were no different from ourselves in most respects. They recognized the vast power of nature, and how much their lives hung by a thread. They wanted power over their reality just as we want power over ours. To find in those forces distinct personalities, qualities unique to each- was the beginning of science and philosophy.

Even today, when we project onto the power of nature and reality distinct value judgments of Good and Evil we are projecting our own nature on forces unseen. Not one thing humanity has done with the consciousness and quasi concept of God has ever tended to make God Larger, and mankind smaller. We have made God small and made ourselves the center of his attention. It is this smallness of being, purpose, and focus that makes me reject the God of formal religion. I find it hard to accept a God who can care about each of us when we cannot manage to care for any of us. Can we not set a good example for God? Why do we expect God to do that which we cannot find the heart to do?

Ah the age old "God is only us trying to explain the unknown" addage. Unforuntately I do not think that that can really hold any longer. God is and has been and will be much more than simply an explanation for things we cannot know.

God is many different thing to many different people. Personally I see God as existence itself. We obviously cannot live without existence but I see no reason to worship it as if it was some invisible character who demanded our attention.
Worshiping a personification of existence would be like turning Mother Nature into a god and worshiping her instead of understanding she is a mere personification of nature.
Religion seems to be the institution which creates idols for superstitious people to worship.
It caters for the people who prefer fantasy to reality.
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 3:48:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 11:49:08 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

If you want your standards and morals to be justified beyond your own personal preference, then yes.

So you think people create ultimate supernatural authorities in their minds to justify their personal morals and standards?
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 3:51:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:17:51 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

Someone with religious beliefs would say yes we do need religion. For your second question, religion is not the source of morality. Morals are how we coexist. Of course people wouldn't behave the same but for better or worse...l dont know. I'm would almost believe that without religion humanity could have avoided many dark times in history, which could have quickened technological milestones in the future or our present.

Without religion we would avoid religious wars for a start. We would also avoid religious terrorism, religious rituals, religious bondage.
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 4:11:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 9:17:14 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

Yes. This is proven by all the people who don't believe in Gods and/or deities, who are able to live meaningful lives with a healthy moral compass.

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I think that gets a yes and no, people would still believe in doing the right thing for other people, empathy and love exist independently from religion. I also think that perhaps in the absence of religion we would have fewer prejudices and less cultural conflicts.

With all that being said I believe that religion was an inevitable part of human social/psychological evolution and development. And if we don't kill each other first, one day we will evolve beyond Gods and adopt a more spiritual philosophy that promotes investing in the best mortal life that we can live rather than focusing our energies on an immortal afterlife.

I agree love and all other human emotions and attitudes exist independent of religion.
However, what would be considered the "ultimate authority" regarding high standards, morals etc, if humans no longer worshiped a "supreme supernatural being"
Do you think humans would fight to become that "ultimate authority" and try to rule others according to their own standards and laws?

We obviously make our own laws now and expect people to abide by them. It seems the "law" is the ultimate authority in reality. People make the laws of the land and decide what morals and standards to adopt though life. It is not some invisible supernatural entity who demands our obedience.

I gather you think a more "spiritual philosophy" is about living life in the reality of the present than worrying about what happens after we die?

That seems sensible and practical enough to me.
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 4:15:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:26:42 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Nothing new under the sun when the popular MA$$E$ want to try and have their FUN.

Obviously fantasy and fiction exist in this world and many get lost in it.
Religion is just one way to escape from reality by giving people a hope in "land of happy ever after" Maybe to make the reality of death more bearable for them?
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1/9/2015 4:18:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 3:51:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:17:51 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

Someone with religious beliefs would say yes we do need religion. For your second question, religion is not the source of morality. Morals are how we coexist. Of course people wouldn't behave the same but for better or worse...l dont know. I'm would almost believe that without religion humanity could have avoided many dark times in history, which could have quickened technological milestones in the future or our present.

Without religion we would avoid religious wars for a start. We would also avoid religious terrorism, religious rituals, religious bondage.

I wouldn't have to work out religiously. Commmmonnn fat belly! Make your way to the front!
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 4:24:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:48:40 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 7:55:40 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Religion comes from superstitions.

Very few have NO superstitions what so ever.

I Am one of those people.

It wasn't always this way for me.

When younger I was superstitious like most others.

But as I grew up and matured in body and mind I discovered that superstition was for small children and those that are much to lazy and stubborn to grow up and leave the childish ways behind them.

I basically grew up as I was tired of hauling a full load around with me that was not necessary.

So I tossed the nappy of my bondage away and found that I was free from the poo that follows you around slowing you down.

The immature always require a place to place the blame for what they don't want to take responsibility for.

Religion provides the perfect scape goat. Or rather escape boat...

That is an Okay answer. Superstition has its religious elements. So does magic. There is a lot of ritual in superstition. There is direct equals in magic. For example: The magic wands or staffs. Even the words: Hocus pokus comes from the Latin mass, where God was supposed to enter the bread of communion. He would raise the bread before all and say: Hoc es Corpus: This is the Body. Correctly said: Religion is a growth out of spiritualism, where everything is considered to have a spirit, and then Animism where animals are thought to have a spirit. Superstition is the sort of ritual behavior that people pick up that governs good fortune. With all ritual people try to recreate the past in the future by recreating one element of the past. The fact that neurotics very often practice such ritualistic behavior is a give away of the mind set around such practice. But even of expressions like Good Luck, and old Norse god is invoked. It is hard to escape religion even with great effort.

When you think about "magic words", it is interesting to notice that Christians believe there is some "magic" or "power" in the name of Jesus. They tend to add those "magic words' .... "In the name of Jesus" to the end of prayers etc as if those words would make their hopes and dreams come true.
It is fascinating how superstition and all its rituals can have such a huge hold on peoples minds.
Ritual seems part of our habitual culture which is difficult to escape. We are creatures of habit. Breaking one habit only causes people to replace it with another one.
Skyangel
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1/9/2015 4:28:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 4:18:07 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/9/2015 3:51:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:17:51 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

Someone with religious beliefs would say yes we do need religion. For your second question, religion is not the source of morality. Morals are how we coexist. Of course people wouldn't behave the same but for better or worse...l dont know. I'm would almost believe that without religion humanity could have avoided many dark times in history, which could have quickened technological milestones in the future or our present.

Without religion we would avoid religious wars for a start. We would also avoid religious terrorism, religious rituals, religious bondage.

I wouldn't have to work out religiously. Commmmonnn fat belly! Make your way to the front!

LOL, fat bellies tend to automatically make their way further to the front as they get larger. Working out won't help shrink them if you keep eating and drinking the stuff that makes them expand in the first place.
A change of feeding ritual is needed. ;-)
Fido
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1/9/2015 4:45:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/9/2015 3:46:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/8/2015 11:44:03 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/8/2015 11:40:44 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/8/2015 10:16:45 AM, Clovis wrote:
At 1/7/2015 3:12:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Is it necessary to believe in any invisible supernatural characters and worship them in order to live by high morals and standards?

If religion did not exist in the world, would people still behave the same as they do now?

I don't know what you mean by necessary. Necessary for what?

Necessary for the status quo? Most likely yes because religion has been an integral part of human society since their creation thousands of years ago.

Necessary for morality? No. But religion certainly helps.

Religion started exactly one minute ago when a child flipped a light switch, and had the light come on, and wondered how it came on. All power beyond our understanding demands a magical explanation. That child who never asks why, or how -is exactly the one who will not question the faith of his family, but will only carry on. Some child will ask after the wires in the wall, but to tear down the wall is simply the beginning of tearing secrets out of reality, and it is too easy to become Faustus, and say never: Enough.

Primitive people were no different from ourselves in most respects. They recognized the vast power of nature, and how much their lives hung by a thread. They wanted power over their reality just as we want power over ours. To find in those forces distinct personalities, qualities unique to each- was the beginning of science and philosophy.

Even today, when we project onto the power of nature and reality distinct value judgments of Good and Evil we are projecting our own nature on forces unseen. Not one thing humanity has done with the consciousness and quasi concept of God has ever tended to make God Larger, and mankind smaller. We have made God small and made ourselves the center of his attention. It is this smallness of being, purpose, and focus that makes me reject the God of formal religion. I find it hard to accept a God who can care about each of us when we cannot manage to care for any of us. Can we not set a good example for God? Why do we expect God to do that which we cannot find the heart to do?

Ah the age old "God is only us trying to explain the unknown" adage. Unfortunately I do not think that that can really hold any longer. God is and has been and will be much more than simply an explanation for things we cannot know.

God is many different thing to many different people. Personally I see God as existence itself. We obviously cannot live without existence but I see no reason to worship it as if it was some invisible character who demanded our attention.
Worshiping a personification of existence would be like turning Mother Nature into a god and worshiping her instead of understanding she is a mere personification of nature.
Religion seems to be the institution which creates idols for superstitious people to worship.
It caters for the people who prefer fantasy to reality.

I think that when people worship Jesus they are not worshiping a person, but the objectification of all the virtues in human form. Person's in the trinity is also a poor Latin translation for the Greek which is more: Three Somethings. In any event, it is a small step from object to objective. The goal is to be God.
I once saved a man's life; and that in itself did not mean much. I had to be pushed into it. The guy was black, and he was drowning, and I had to go fetch him off the bottom, and hold him up for air, and then have the other guy who helped me, drag him closer to shore. Repeat. I looked the guy up later, and he said he never saw my face; but he knew I was white. I wonder if he thought I was God, or an angel. Judging by what he threw up of that nasty river water, I think he was trying to drink that river so he did not have to breathe it. If he was praying he caught me at the right time, a natural born hero.
We do not just worship and honor the virtue of Jesus , but all the virtue he represents. As when the Muslims say: God is Good, or God is Great. They are giving one side of God. What then do you worship; the God or his qualities? I like Jesus. He was too human, and a humorous savant. He has got it going on compared to God Almighty.