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The Hope of Atheists

LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.

The one thing atheists hope for above all, and the one thing they insist that they know they have, is the absence of the everlasting fire of Hell in the Lake of Fire where the smoke of their torments will never cease to rise from.

Many Christians and cults such as Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hinduism, Buddism, Mormonism, and even Islam offer this same hope. Those faiths which say there is a Hell like Muslims offer the hope of being purged, cleansed, purified, corrected by the fire of Hell so they can then be relieved of it's torments and granted pardon and be restored to freedom in existence. With this hope of being relieved from suffering, the believer feels his life is justified and it really does not matter what events are recorded by God on his or her personal historical account which includes every word, thought, and action.
This is a terrible mistake, and there is a reason that this hope is promoted in so many cults, sects, and religions....and even in atheism. The reason is pride, personal pride. We naturally feel we are protecting ourselves by telling ourselves that we are too good to burn in Hell forever.

Two things make the claims of Jesus Christ unique among all philosophies and all religkions.

1) He claimed to equal to God, and exclusively so...He claimed to be the only one equal to God and He claimed that there is nobody or nothing else equal to Him. This is how He was framed to be crucified: the Jewush religious leaders accused Him of blasphemy because He claimed He was God and that nobody else is God. He claimed to be one and equal with God the Father. By claiming to be God, He claimed that He was the King of Israel and all of creation.

2) He spoke repeatedly and plainly about the eternal suffering of Hell, and he tried to persuade people to be saved from it. He warned of the danger of eternal punishment in Hell, and the importance of being sure you will not end up there.

And then to prove the veracity of His claims, He rose from the dead by His own power, by the power of God, bodily and was seen alive by over five hundred witnesses at one time and many times by individuals and groups of His disciples. He invited one of them to put his fingers in the nail holes in his hands, and thrust his hand into his side where a Roman soldiers spear had pierced it. He ate with them and in front of them. He cooked for them. He breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit which was the promise of God who would go with them as their Comforter when He returned to heaven.

And those witnesses changed the world and willingly gave their bodies as martyrs who would not recant their conviction that death had been conquered and they had eternal life in Jesus Christ, paid for and bought by God's own blood and they gave their own lives and blood to spread the good news of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and God's offer of pardon and forgiveness and eternal life through faith in His blood with paid for the sins of the world. And as many as received Him (Jesus), to them He gave the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on His name.

And they changed my life forever. One day I will see Jesus face to face and forever be changed completely as a child of God, joint-heir of heaven with Jesus Christ who bought me back from my sin, death, and eternal condemnation in Hell. This mortal shall put on immortality. I know my sins are forgiven and I'm going to heaven. I know I'm going to be like Jesus, the perfect Christian, I know I'm going to be with Him forever in eternal life so wonderful and beaustiful and joyful and good it cannot begin to be imagined as long as I am in this body of death. I'm going home soon! PRAISE THE LORD! LET EVERYTHING THAT HAS BREATH PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!
Illegalcombatant
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1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/14/2015 10:12:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

Clearly, most Christians have it wrong. I am not saying they should not fear God because for believers, that is to not fear death, and such courage from where ever it comes is to be admired.

It is in the love of God and the wonderful life we have that we should strive to make life better for all, including ourselves. The nonsense of hell makes cowards when we need men and women of courage who dare to do what is right even against the desires of those rich and powerful who always make a home for themselves in any organized faith. Don't shove the Bible at people. Be willing to treat all people as human beings and make the moral argument to them.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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1/14/2015 2:20:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

ok.....here you only use one insult, saying I come accross as not thinking. Do you see that it requires some thought for me to pick out this blatant insult and try to nicely say to you that it is rude? Do you see I am trying to thoughtfully engage you in conversation which allows for disagreement in mutual respect? If you can only insult me, how are you going to hear anything I say? If I'm wasting my time trying to talk to you, and all of your comments can be summarised as nothing but an insult, then I have to ask you to stay out of my threads. I really hope you will drop the insults and try to engage in a mutually respectful conversation. In hope that you are capable of doing that, I will answer your questions with questions and let's see what you think........and I'm trying to keep the focus on the OP of this thread. I don't want to have a wild arguement with you. I created this thread to discuss the differences in religions and sects regarding what Jesus taught about His deity and his assertions of the reality of Hell's torments and the Lake of Fire.
It is those two things that make Him different than all reliigions. I am for Jesus Christ. I am against religious claims and relgious beliefs. Jesus Christ is a person, not a reliigion. I believe Him. I do not follow or practice religion.

You should not follow a religious belief because it scares you. Some people might become afraid of ending up in Hell, and desire to be sure they do not, but to follow a religious belief because you are afraid of Hell cannot give you assurance of not ending up in Hell. How can I be threattening you with Hell when I do not hold Hell in my hand? I'm not God. If you think God is threatening you with Hell, I suggest you try to get a peace contract signed between you and God so you won't feel threatened any more. Trying to warn you of the danger of Hell is not threatening you, it's trying to get you saved. Your critcial thinking is so critical, you are having trouble listening and your criticisim much to easily devolves into insults.

Atheism is a religious belief in which the believer hopes he has the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell and beleives he has that right because he sees no evidence of the reality of Hell. This is the hope of Atheists, and all religions are built on offering this same hope with no way of being sure that the religious person can exixt outside of the fire of Hell.
Many atheists and religious people hold to the highest standards of morals and personal conduct in hope of securing the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell. Jesus Christ, the person, not the religion, gives assurance of the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell because He is God and He has the power to give or deny that right.

Now, if you have any more comments or questions, please refrain from putting them in ways that are nothing but insults. If you want to teach people about the value of your own style of "critical thinking", why not make your own forum instead of coming here and trying to ruin mine?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 2:35:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 10:12:06 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

Clearly, most Christians have it wrong. I am not saying they should not fear God because for believers, that is to not fear death, and such courage from where ever it comes is to be admired.

It is in the love of God and the wonderful life we have that we should strive to make life better for all, including ourselves. The nonsense of hell makes cowards when we need men and women of courage who dare to do what is right even against the desires of those rich and powerful who always make a home for themselves in any organized faith. Don't shove the Bible at people. Be willing to treat all people as human beings and make the moral argument to them.

If you think Hell is nonsense which makes cowards, please try to explain your reasoning in this. The way you make the comment and leave it hanging implies that anybody who has a different opinion than yours is a coward. You are coming across here as if your only desire regarding the OP is to get rid of it and take over the thread with your own teachings.

I assure you I am no coward. Your manner here of pretending to be the voice of reason as you try to nullify the OP of this thread and completely change the conversation is rude and could well be taken as a provokation for me to fight with you. Your post is harassment disguised as the voice of reason by which you are trying to shove your belefs down my throat.

This thread is for discussion of the OP, not for discussion of your assertions in which you state that anybody who disagrees with you is a coward. You are insulting me and harassing me, and if you can't discuss the OP without resorting to manners lacking civlity, I'll have to ask you to refrain from posting in this thread. I am the last person you would call a coward if you were standing here in front of me, and to do so here in print is a cowardly method of harassment trying to provoke me to fight with you. I am not interested to engage you when you are only here to harass and insult me and try to dominate the thread. If you think you have something of value to say, why not make your own thread and say it? I'm not going to continually argue with you, trying to reason with you in the matter of how to discuss differences of opinion respectfully. Once again you have interrupted my conversation with insults and harassment and I want you to stop.
Fido
Posts: 357
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1/14/2015 3:41:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 2:35:54 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 10:12:06 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

Clearly, most Christians have it wrong. I am not saying they should not fear God because for believers, that is to not fear death, and such courage from where ever it comes is to be admired.

It is in the love of God and the wonderful life we have that we should strive to make life better for all, including ourselves. The nonsense of hell makes cowards when we need men and women of courage who dare to do what is right even against the desires of those rich and powerful who always make a home for themselves in any organized faith. Don't shove the Bible at people. Be willing to treat all people as human beings and make the moral argument to them.

If you think Hell is nonsense which makes cowards, please try to explain your reasoning in this. The way you make the comment and leave it hanging implies that anybody who has a different opinion than yours is a coward. You are coming across here as if your only desire regarding the OP is to get rid of it and take over the thread with your own teachings.

I assure you I am no coward. Your manner here of pretending to be the voice of reason as you try to nullify the OP of this thread and completely change the conversation is rude and could well be taken as a provocation for me to fight with you. Your post is harassment disguised as the voice of reason by which you are trying to shove your beliefs down my throat.

This thread is for discussion of the OP, not for discussion of your assertions in which you state that anybody who disagrees with you is a coward. You are insulting me and harassing me, and if you can't discuss the OP without resorting to manners lacking civility, I'll have to ask you to refrain from posting in this thread. I am the last person you would call a coward if you were standing here in front of me, and to do so here in print is a cowardly method of harassment trying to provoke me to fight with you. I am not interested to engage you when you are only here to harass and insult me and try to dominate the thread. If you think you have something of value to say, why not make your own thread and say it? I'm not going to continually argue with you, trying to reason with you in the matter of how to discuss differences of opinion respectfully. Once again you have interrupted my conversation with insults and harassment and I want you to stop.

My pleasure. As Socrates said: Knowledge is virtue. To explain this it is simple to point out how often people do evil out of ignorance. It is only necessary to know what is good and right to do it; and a society like ours so given to doing without thought will never have enough people willing to think well, and think correctly before doing.

For hell to offer a threat, people would have to believe it, and you are likely the only one who does unless that is just the best excuse you can find to be obnoxious. For people to actually believe, as many often do, and still do as they wish reveals a contradiction of character, and some people are fine living this way.

The worst cowards are they who believe such bunk, because they will believe anything and do anything they are told. The idea that God is love and mercy needs no threat of hell. The hell- is to be apart from this love and mercy; and every sinner thinks, if he believes in God that he can live without God's love for a spell. This is false, for if one believes, God is the very life within us, and so sin is death, being cut off from your love and your life.

Apart from religion, everyone has every moral reason to act with virtue and honor. Aristotle was correct in his conclusion that governments were created for Good because Good is the object of all human activity. No one builds a leaky roof, or a holey shoe. People in their knowledge seek good in all things, and out of their ignorance seek all manor of other things. What is needed is more knowledge and less faith, because certainty is more responsible for the conditions on earth we call hell than knowledge.

Look- life means, and tell me about and why so many monks and priests in the middle ages were so profligate drunken sinners. Did they not believe in the terrors which they were charged to advertise? The fact is that courage is natural to humans even while pantywaists try to scare Jesus into them. The fact that these people were more educated than those they were to serve made them question the nonsense they were taught. It is more common to react against ones fear than fold up before it.

You cannot base your morality on law and fear. You have to give people a positive reason to be good, and that is most usually because goodness grows out of good. Evil grows out of evil, and the threat of hell is just more evil.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 3:51:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 3:41:20 PM, Fido wrote:
At 1/14/2015 2:35:54 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 10:12:06 AM, Fido wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

Clearly, most Christians have it wrong. I am not saying they should not fear God because for believers, that is to not fear death, and such courage from where ever it comes is to be admired.

It is in the love of God and the wonderful life we have that we should strive to make life better for all, including ourselves. The nonsense of hell makes cowards when we need men and women of courage who dare to do what is right even against the desires of those rich and powerful who always make a home for themselves in any organized faith. Don't shove the Bible at people. Be willing to treat all people as human beings and make the moral argument to them.

If you think Hell is nonsense which makes cowards, please try to explain your reasoning in this. The way you make the comment and leave it hanging implies that anybody who has a different opinion than yours is a coward. You are coming across here as if your only desire regarding the OP is to get rid of it and take over the thread with your own teachings.

I assure you I am no coward. Your manner here of pretending to be the voice of reason as you try to nullify the OP of this thread and completely change the conversation is rude and could well be taken as a provocation for me to fight with you. Your post is harassment disguised as the voice of reason by which you are trying to shove your beliefs down my throat.

This thread is for discussion of the OP, not for discussion of your assertions in which you state that anybody who disagrees with you is a coward. You are insulting me and harassing me, and if you can't discuss the OP without resorting to manners lacking civility, I'll have to ask you to refrain from posting in this thread. I am the last person you would call a coward if you were standing here in front of me, and to do so here in print is a cowardly method of harassment trying to provoke me to fight with you. I am not interested to engage you when you are only here to harass and insult me and try to dominate the thread. If you think you have something of value to say, why not make your own thread and say it? I'm not going to continually argue with you, trying to reason with you in the matter of how to discuss differences of opinion respectfully. Once again you have interrupted my conversation with insults and harassment and I want you to stop.

My pleasure. As Socrates said: Knowledge is virtue. To explain this it is simple to point out how often people do evil out of ignorance. It is only necessary to know what is good and right to do it; and a society like ours so given to doing without thought will never have enough people willing to think well, and think correctly before doing.

For hell to offer a threat, people would have to believe it, and you are likely the only one who does unless that is just the best excuse you can find to be obnoxious. For people to actually believe, as many often do, and still do as they wish reveals a contradiction of character, and some people are fine living this way.

The worst cowards are they who believe such bunk, because they will believe anything and do anything they are told. The idea that God is love and mercy needs no threat of hell. The hell- is to be apart from this love and mercy; and every sinner thinks, if he believes in God that he can live without God's love for a spell. This is false, for if one believes, God is the very life within us, and so sin is death, being cut off from your love and your life.

Apart from religion, everyone has every moral reason to act with virtue and honor. Aristotle was correct in his conclusion that governments were created for Good because Good is the object of all human activity. No one builds a leaky roof, or a holey shoe. People in their knowledge seek good in all things, and out of their ignorance seek all manor of other things. What is needed is more knowledge and less faith, because certainty is more responsible for the conditions on earth we call hell than knowledge.

Look- life means, and tell me about and why so many monks and priests in the middle ages were so profligate drunken sinners. Did they not believe in the terrors which they were charged to advertise? The fact is that courage is natural to humans even while pantywaists try to scare Jesus into them. The fact that these people were more educated than those they were to serve made them question the nonsense they were taught. It is more common to react against ones fear than fold up before it.

You cannot base your morality on law and fear. You have to give people a positive reason to be good, and that is most usually because goodness grows out of good. Evil grows out of evil, and the threat of hell is just more evil.

Why don't you make a new forum and use this post as your OP? I'm not interested in talking with you. All you want to do is harass and insult me. I did not create this thread to make a platform for you to come stomp on my head. You seem to think that you have a lot of important things to say, and maybe you do but because of your repeated insults, I have no interest in discussing anything with you. You are trying to provoke me to fight and I do not want to fight. If you don't like my OP and cannot express your displeasure or disagreement without insulting me, all you are doing is harassing me.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 3:58:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Anybody who tries to dominate this thread by insulting me is probably going to be reported for harassment.

Anybody who thinks this post is directed at them is probably correct.

Please try to keep the conversatkion centered on the OP. If you have disagreemtnents with the OP, they are welcome as long as you can express them in a civil manner.
Fido
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1/14/2015 4:06:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
First;... I did not insult you and you are entitled to your beliefs, even to be obnoxious in them. No one has to respond. I was responding to be polite. If you think a fair argument for an honest conclusion is stomping on your head, then: Sorry. It may give you a head ache. Tack some assburn and come back ready to talk. Do not lose hope. You are certain you are right. You may be right. Who knows, but why cry?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 4:16:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ok, since so many people seem to be unable to focus on the theme of this forum, I'll try to clarify it a bit and see if that will enable more civil discourse.

Nobody wants to burn in Hell. We all hope that we do not burn in Hell. If we have any human decency, we would not want even our worst enemy to burn in Hell forever as they are human the same as us and we sure do not want to burn in Hell.

The jist of this thread is that atheism and religions all offer a hope of not burning in Hell.
Atheism asserts this hope by simply denying that God is God, and by denying that Hell is real. Religions offer this hope by teaching a way of life in which a person does good or acts good and based on his goodness, his religion teaches him that he is too good to burn in Hell.

This is what makes Jesus Christ stand out from all religions. He claimed to be God in the flesh who came to die in our place to pay our price in death to save us from the everlasting torment of Hell. He promises that if we believe on His resurrection and receive Him as our Saviour in reality by asking God in Jesus's name to save us, we will be forgiven and pardoned from paying for our sins in Hell because He took our punishment when He died in our place. This is foolishness to people who say they are proving by their own beliefs or their own good efforts or good deeds that they have the right to exist outside of Hell.

You can say all of this is foolishness without insulting and harassing me. I welcome differing opinions. Please try to keep the conversation free from insults and harassment directed toward me or any other participants in this thread.

God loves you and so do I, believe it or not.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 4:29:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 4:06:53 PM, Fido wrote:
First;... I did not insult you and you are entitled to your beliefs, even to be obnoxious in them. No one has to respond. I was responding to be polite. If you think a fair argument for an honest conclusion is stomping on your head, then: Sorry. It may give you a head ache. Tack some assburn and come back ready to talk. Do not lose hope. You are certain you are right. You may be right. Who knows, but why cry?

Your post here is nothing but a continuation of your harassment of me, trying to prolong an argument rather than discussing the OP. I can see where the OP was rambling a bit, and I posted a simplification in hope that people who have trouble disagreeing in a civil manner will find a way to discuss the OP without insulting and harassing. I'm doing everything I can to get people to engage in civil discourse and refrain myself from bad manners, and the last thing I want to do is report anybody for insults and harassments.
If you want to have a conversation with me, you are welcome to try again but you will wear out your welcome if the insults do not stop.
XVIII18
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1/14/2015 7:13:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.


You know what is funny, you probably had ancestors that were killed in the name of Christianity. I am not being insensitive here. I bet a lot of us did. There are numerous countries that are largely atheist that obviously are not in anarchy killing themselves.
IRONHIDE
Posts: 326
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1/14/2015 8:16:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
.
Thank you for inviting me to this thread and sharing your beliefs with others. I can sense your sincerity in what you believe and the need to share with others.

I am curious, as to how you arrived at these deeply held beliefs. I trust you believe the Bible as Gods inspired record to humanity and as in The book of Timothy, it states:

2 Timothy 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

So naturally, with this belief I look to the scriptures, to establish such thing mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:16

I also utilize the KJV as my main source of scripture. I would think we can agree that the original scripture manuscripts that God gave inspiration to men to write was written in Hebrew in the OT and Greek in the NT. Given this historical fact, we now have Hebrew & Greek Lexicons to utilize in our studies, to see what the inspired word that these men were directed by Gods own Holy Spirit to write. I employ DR. Strong's Hebrew & Greek Lexicon when examining Gods word translated into the 1611 KJV, As you may know Strong's Concordance is from the KJV translation for bible study purposes.

When we find words, in the KJV Strong's Concordance, it will show the Hebrew or Greek word that was utilized during the recording of Gods Inspired record to Humanity and give us the definition of these word, so we can understand what the message is.

When we find the word "Hell" it is not the word that was used in original inspired manuscripts. The word Hell is used in Lou of the [Hebrew: sheol translated""pit" and "grave"] and then we find according to the Hebrew bible Lexicon, the Hebrew word sheol in the Old Testament is translated "pit" three times and "grave" thirty one times. In which is NEVER associated with literal "FIRE flames of torture" So it would be disingenuous, on any one to insert or imply something, God did not inspire to have recorded or imply.

We find the same, with the word "Hell" in the New Testament, that was not utilized as an inspired word from God, in the Greek text either. We find the word "Hades" and the definition of this word God inspired to be used is this: "Hades, the unseen world"

Again, we do not find account of this being in association with the modern Christian word "Hell Fire" So it becomes again disingenuous to say God said you will burn in "Hell" fire where we find Gods inspired word he chose to use "Hades" 'the unseen world'

Then we find the word "Gehenna" utilized in a few passages in the Greek text of the New Testament, which we know was originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem to burn the waste of the city and worms did in fact die there, but the worm would always maintain a presence in a live fashion, because trash was always being thrown in and around Geheena, Thus "the worm never dies"

However, Gehenna is a City Park today and the worms are dead and you can take a stroll thru the "Hell" today and not be burned by any flames, or run into a mess of worms.

So now what we have is a word "Hell" that has been inserted by man and not God into scriptures and defined across the board as "Torturing Hell Fire"

Two things make the claims of Jesus Christ unique among all philosophies and all religkions.

1) He claimed to equal to God, and exclusively so...He claimed to be the only one equal to God and He claimed that there is nobody or nothing else equal to Him. This is how He was framed to be crucified: the Jewush religious leaders accused Him of blasphemy because He claimed He was God and that nobody else is God. He claimed to be one and equal with God the Father. By claiming to be God, He claimed that He was the King of Israel and all of creation.

"Trinity" is another subject I would like to discuss in another thread all together, which I will make one on, and welcome your scriptural views on.

2) He spoke repeatedly and plainly about the eternal suffering of Hell, and he tried to persuade people to be saved from it. He warned of the danger of eternal punishment in Hell, and the importance of being sure you will not end up there.

I find the KJV can not even defend this claim.

Yes Jesus spoke in Parables. Further, Jesus ONLY spoke in Parables and outside of parables he spoke not unto them.

[A] "All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

[B] "But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them"" (Mark 4:34).

[C] "This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them" (John 10:6).

Jesus taught in parables only, and no one understood His parables, hence Jesus taught in a way that He knew no one would understand His message. This truth of Scripture is so revolutionary to the minds of most Christians that many will think it blasphemy, and yet the Scriptures abound with statements that fully support it.

I heard Matt Crouch (elder son of TBN President, Paul Croach) state on international television that Jesus spoke in parables to make the meaning of His teachings simple and clear and understandable to the simple farmers and uneducated people of Judea. My Wycliffe Bible Dictionary has a similar explanation: "Purpose of parables. The obvious purpose of Jesus" use of parables was to make spiritual truth clear and compelling." What a crock

Did he speak plainly so they could understand these parables ? Lets see what our Lord and Savior him self said to such a claim, made by mans imagination:

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is not given" (Matt. 13:10-11).

Now then, does anyone see any similarity between "to make spiritual truth clear and compelling," and ""but unto them it is not given?" No? Neither do I. What I see is a diametric opposite. What I see is a flat out contradiction between Christian teachers and the Word of God.

"Jesus spoke in parables to make His quaint little stories clear and understandable to the uneducated farmers of Judea," my foot: "and when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spoke of them" (Matt. 21:45). The Chief Priests and Pharisees were generally highly educated people. But even they didn"t know what Jesus" parables really meant, but they on one occasion at least, "perceived" that Jesus was speaking about them.

So surely, if Jesus" parables were "clear and compelling" to the uneducated farmers of Judea, then they would be even more so to His own disciples, not?

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, Declare [expound, define, explain] unto us the parable of the tares of the field" (Matt. 13:36).

Even Jesus" Own disciples had to have these parables explained to them.

This is another one of those marvelous spiritual truths of Scripture, which you will never hear explained in the Church. Just what do they teach all these future clergymen in seminary? The fact is, Jesus did not want the people to understand Him and Jesus did not want them to repent and Jesus did not want to spiritually heal or save them. He clearly said so. But why?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:16:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 7:13:13 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.


You know what is funny, you probably had ancestors that were killed in the name of Christianity. I am not being insensitive here. I bet a lot of us did. There are numerous countries that are largely atheist that obviously are not in anarchy killing themselves.

You may be right, but I don't think the idea of innocent people being murdered under any circumstances is funny. You are being insensiive and you are going off topic. I have been close to Christians, or at least everybody thought they were Christians and I prefer to believe they were Christians, who commited suicide. My brother was killed by an atheist. There was not a more gentle soul on the planet than my brother, killed by a drunken atheist who should have stayed home rather than driving.

Trying to ignore your insensitivity, and move on to the possibility of having a decent conversation with you, I would like to point out something that you may not understand. Catholicism is not Christian. The history of Christianity which you wish to exaggerate and distort when you allude to events of history you really know nothing about but use generalizations as a slander against me is related to the history of the Catholic Church.
The Crusades was a time of war when Muslims were attempting to conquer Europe. I don't blame the Catholics for anything in protecting their homeland during the Crusades. I'm sure a lot of their actions were war crimes, but I am thankful that they drove the Muslims back and stopped them from dominating Europe. You nor I would be here today if the Crusades had not slowed and repelled the advance of militant Islam.

The Catholic church throughout it's history has brutally tortured and persecuted real Christians who would not submit to it's dogmas. You are probably correct that some of my anscetors were killed in the name of Christianity. The term Christianity is tossed around by a lot of people who are not Christians and really do not know what Chritianity is. The Catholic church may call itself an institution of Christianity, but it is not. It is a religious institution which was established as a political attempt to preserve the Roman Empire by trying to control and organize Christianity. The leaders of that movement were not Christians, and they are not Christians today. I am a real Christian, and if I saw you being brutalized by another person or a group of people, I would do everything in my power to stop them even if they were brutalizing you for a good reason. We have courts and law enforcement to handle those things, and if possible I would stop their attack no matter what desire for revenge may have possessed them to attack you.

You and I both probably have ancestors who were killed in the name of Christianity and I don't see how you can find it funny unless you would be in that crowd cheering or participating in the attacks.

So far you have been disruptive, insulting, and are bordering on being blatantly harassing toward me. If you cannot show some respect and you do not care if your conduct is respectable or not, I would appreciate it if you would not post in my threads. If you want to carry on a discussion in civil discourse, there is no reason why you cannot express your disagreemtents with me. I welcome all comments and discussion as long as it's civil.

This has gone way off of the OP for this forum, and I would appreciate it if in future posts you would try to keep your comments in relation to the OP.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:21:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Insults and harassment will be reported as such. in your post which I have graciously responded to here, you have been on the border of pusing me to report you for insulting and harassment.

If you think this comment is directed at you, you are probably correct and I have probably already reported you for insulting and harassment. I know I have been harsh in many places with many people and I'm sorry if I offended you or anybody else. It's time to stop the insulting and harassing. I will not engage in such behavior with you, and will appeal for moderation if my requests for you to cease from abusive behavior are ignored.
XVIII18
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1/14/2015 9:25:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 9:16:26 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 7:13:13 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.


You know what is funny, you probably had ancestors that were killed in the name of Christianity. I am not being insensitive here. I bet a lot of us did. There are numerous countries that are largely atheist that obviously are not in anarchy killing themselves.

You may be right, but I don't think the idea of innocent people being murdered under any circumstances is funny. You are being insensiive and you are going off topic. I have been close to Christians, or at least everybody thought they were Christians and I prefer to believe they were Christians, who commited suicide. My brother was killed by an atheist. There was not a more gentle soul on the planet than my brother, killed by a drunken atheist who should have stayed home rather than driving.

Trying to ignore your insensitivity, and move on to the possibility of having a decent conversation with you, I would like to point out something that you may not understand. Catholicism is not Christian. The history of Christianity which you wish to exaggerate and distort when you allude to events of history you really know nothing about but use generalizations as a slander against me is related to the history of the Catholic Church.
The Crusades was a time of war when Muslims were attempting to conquer Europe. I don't blame the Catholics for anything in protecting their homeland during the Crusades. I'm sure a lot of their actions were war crimes, but I am thankful that they drove the Muslims back and stopped them from dominating Europe. You nor I would be here today if the Crusades had not slowed and repelled the advance of militant Islam.

The Catholic church throughout it's history has brutally tortured and persecuted real Christians who would not submit to it's dogmas. You are probably correct that some of my anscetors were killed in the name of Christianity. The term Christianity is tossed around by a lot of people who are not Christians and really do not know what Chritianity is. The Catholic church may call itself an institution of Christianity, but it is not. It is a religious institution which was established as a political attempt to preserve the Roman Empire by trying to control and organize Christianity. The leaders of that movement were not Christians, and they are not Christians today. I am a real Christian, and if I saw you being brutalized by another person or a group of people, I would do everything in my power to stop them even if they were brutalizing you for a good reason. We have courts and law enforcement to handle those things, and if possible I would stop their attack no matter what desire for revenge may have possessed them to attack you.

You and I both probably have ancestors who were killed in the name of Christianity and I don't see how you can find it funny unless you would be in that crowd cheering or participating in the attacks.

So far you have been disruptive, insulting, and are bordering on being blatantly harassing toward me. If you cannot show some respect and you do not care if your conduct is respectable or not, I would appreciate it if you would not post in my threads. If you want to carry on a discussion in civil discourse, there is no reason why you cannot express your disagreemtents with me. I welcome all comments and discussion as long as it's civil.

This has gone way off of the OP for this forum, and I would appreciate it if in future posts you would try to keep your comments in relation to the OP.

I just think it is off, you state atheists kill people (you said you weren't being insensitive) but once I point out that some Christians kill people you take offense (said I was being insensitive). You can't apply that all Christians murder to all christians very similarly to the fact that you can't say all atheists are murderers.
XVIII18
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1/14/2015 9:27:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I mean, let's be honest, you said some bad things about Atheists which could also have you reported.
XVIII18
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1/14/2015 9:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Anyway, to add to your discussion:

"The one thing atheists hope for above all, and the one thing they insist that they know they have, is the absence of the everlasting fire of Hell in the Lake of Fire where the smoke of their torments will never cease to rise from."

That is a strong straw-man argument, how can you claim what an atheist knows if you truly are not an atheist?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:40:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 8:16:40 PM, IRONHIDE wrote:

I believe we have the correct and entirely accurate translation of the Word of God into English in the King James Bible. I have studied this subject exensively with one entire college semester dedicated exclusively to understand the history of the King James Bible and the doctrine of the preservation of scripture. God promised to preserve His word in it's entirity down to the tiniest punctuation mark, and it was not hard for Him to do.

The King James Bible is the only English translation which strictly adhered to the Textus Receptus (the Recieved Test) group of manuscripts. The Dead Sea scrolls were prettiy much ignored because they were found to be in agreement with the Textus Receptus.
All ofther groups of manuscripts were rejected by church elders throughout history as corrupted, changed, altered in subsance and in doctrine. If we do not have an accurate translation of the Word of God today which is undeniably accurate, then we really have no soild basis for claiming to know what God really intended to say, do we? Various modern translations make many alterations based on manuscripts that were rejected by true Christians throughout history untll recent centuries when they were introduced as counter actions when the push to translate the Bible into English with the predictable result of weakening the Catholic Churches dominance near the end of the dark ages, the middle ages threatened Catholic controls over society.

I stick to the basics in defense of the veracity of the English translation of the Word of God. Bible college was a long time back and I have forgotten far more than I had memorized through discipline. I am still more than ready to debate doctrinal issues and back up my positions with scripture. Your post here is much too long for me to get into it tonight. It's been a long day, and I have to get some rest. When I do reply to your points, I am going to try to keep my replies in reference to the OP of this thread.

Thank you for your contribution. This is a good example for people on how to engage in civil discourse with disagreements. I'm about ready to fall asleep now. Goodnight.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:46:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 4:51:14 PM, Fido wrote:
how about I blow you and your nonsense off for good? Sound like a winner godboy?

hopefully that means you will be ignoring me from now on since you seem to be unable to engage in civil discourse. This will be the last time I appeal to you for civil discourse before I report you for harassment and insults. If you want to engage in civil discourse, your comments are welcome if you agree with my perspectives or not. I am not going to repeatedly ask you to refrain from insults and harassment. I know I was harsh with you in the past and said some things that were not called for. I hope you feel like you have gotten even with me now. If you can't get to the point of mutual respect with me, I will have no choice but to appeal for moderation by reporting you for harassing and insulting.

this is my final appeal to you for civil discourse. Any more insults and provocations from you will be reported as harassment and insults.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:54:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 9:25:48 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/14/2015 9:16:26 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 7:13:13 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.


You know what is funny, you probably had ancestors that were killed in the name of Christianity. I am not being insensitive here. I bet a lot of us did. There are numerous countries that are largely atheist that obviously are not in anarchy killing themselves.

You may be right, but I don't think the idea of innocent people being murdered under any circumstances is funny. You are being insensiive and you are going off topic. I have been close to Christians, or at least everybody thought they were Christians and I prefer to believe they were Christians, who commited suicide. My brother was killed by an atheist. There was not a more gentle soul on the planet than my brother, killed by a drunken atheist who should have stayed home rather than driving.

Trying to ignore your insensitivity, and move on to the possibility of having a decent conversation with you, I would like to point out something that you may not understand. Catholicism is not Christian. The history of Christianity which you wish to exaggerate and distort when you allude to events of history you really know nothing about but use generalizations as a slander against me is related to the history of the Catholic Church.
The Crusades was a time of war when Muslims were attempting to conquer Europe. I don't blame the Catholics for anything in protecting their homeland during the Crusades. I'm sure a lot of their actions were war crimes, but I am thankful that they drove the Muslims back and stopped them from dominating Europe. You nor I would be here today if the Crusades had not slowed and repelled the advance of militant Islam.

The Catholic church throughout it's history has brutally tortured and persecuted real Christians who would not submit to it's dogmas. You are probably correct that some of my anscetors were killed in the name of Christianity. The term Christianity is tossed around by a lot of people who are not Christians and really do not know what Chritianity is. The Catholic church may call itself an institution of Christianity, but it is not. It is a religious institution which was established as a political attempt to preserve the Roman Empire by trying to control and organize Christianity. The leaders of that movement were not Christians, and they are not Christians today. I am a real Christian, and if I saw you being brutalized by another person or a group of people, I would do everything in my power to stop them even if they were brutalizing you for a good reason. We have courts and law enforcement to handle those things, and if possible I would stop their attack no matter what desire for revenge may have possessed them to attack you.

You and I both probably have ancestors who were killed in the name of Christianity and I don't see how you can find it funny unless you would be in that crowd cheering or participating in the attacks.

So far you have been disruptive, insulting, and are bordering on being blatantly harassing toward me. If you cannot show some respect and you do not care if your conduct is respectable or not, I would appreciate it if you would not post in my threads. If you want to carry on a discussion in civil discourse, there is no reason why you cannot express your disagreemtents with me. I welcome all comments and discussion as long as it's civil.

This has gone way off of the OP for this forum, and I would appreciate it if in future posts you would try to keep your comments in relation to the OP.

I just think it is off, you state atheists kill people (you said you weren't being insensitive) but once I point out that some Christians kill people you take offense (said I was being insensitive). You can't apply that all Christians murder to all christians very similarly to the fact that you can't say all atheists are murderers.

when you say some Christians kill people, please be specific about those events so we can discuss them. Otherwise, I have to assume you only intend to slander and insult me personally for being a Christan. I never said all atheists are murderers. If you will read my OP only a tiny bit more carefully, you will see that I repeatedly described most atheists as fine citizens who display outstading moral conduct. Because you are ignoring the OP, and pulling things out of thin air to put words in my mouth and insult and slander me based on events in history which you cannot even name by time, place,or persons involved, I have to believe that your intention is for nothing but to insult and harass me.

If you are not interested in acknowledging and discussing the OP, you are not welcome here. Insults and harassment are likely to be reported as such if you ignore my appeals for mutually respectful civil discourse. I don't mind if you disagree with me, but please keep your disagreements in line with the OP and not ignoring the OP and making false accusations against me and putting words in my mouth.

Good night. I hope to find your conversation more pleasant in the morning.
XVIII18
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1/14/2015 9:57:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 9:54:34 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 9:25:48 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/14/2015 9:16:26 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 7:13:13 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:00:39 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
Of cours atheists hope for all good things in life for themselves and their children and their loved ones and their dog and cat and their trees and bushes and everythign and everybody else. They are wonderful people......well of course except for the occasional atheist who just doesn't care about living any more so he goes and kills his ex-girlfriend or something like that before he kills himself. My condolences to anybody who has been touched by such tragedies, you are not alone. I lost loved ones to this kind of mess too. I'm not being insensitive here. I understand the pain of loss from suicidal and murderous atheists. But back to all the good fine wonderful atheists.......and their hope.


You know what is funny, you probably had ancestors that were killed in the name of Christianity. I am not being insensitive here. I bet a lot of us did. There are numerous countries that are largely atheist that obviously are not in anarchy killing themselves.

You may be right, but I don't think the idea of innocent people being murdered under any circumstances is funny. You are being insensiive and you are going off topic. I have been close to Christians, or at least everybody thought they were Christians and I prefer to believe they were Christians, who commited suicide. My brother was killed by an atheist. There was not a more gentle soul on the planet than my brother, killed by a drunken atheist who should have stayed home rather than driving.

Trying to ignore your insensitivity, and move on to the possibility of having a decent conversation with you, I would like to point out something that you may not understand. Catholicism is not Christian. The history of Christianity which you wish to exaggerate and distort when you allude to events of history you really know nothing about but use generalizations as a slander against me is related to the history of the Catholic Church.
The Crusades was a time of war when Muslims were attempting to conquer Europe. I don't blame the Catholics for anything in protecting their homeland during the Crusades. I'm sure a lot of their actions were war crimes, but I am thankful that they drove the Muslims back and stopped them from dominating Europe. You nor I would be here today if the Crusades had not slowed and repelled the advance of militant Islam.

The Catholic church throughout it's history has brutally tortured and persecuted real Christians who would not submit to it's dogmas. You are probably correct that some of my anscetors were killed in the name of Christianity. The term Christianity is tossed around by a lot of people who are not Christians and really do not know what Chritianity is. The Catholic church may call itself an institution of Christianity, but it is not. It is a religious institution which was established as a political attempt to preserve the Roman Empire by trying to control and organize Christianity. The leaders of that movement were not Christians, and they are not Christians today. I am a real Christian, and if I saw you being brutalized by another person or a group of people, I would do everything in my power to stop them even if they were brutalizing you for a good reason. We have courts and law enforcement to handle those things, and if possible I would stop their attack no matter what desire for revenge may have possessed them to attack you.

You and I both probably have ancestors who were killed in the name of Christianity and I don't see how you can find it funny unless you would be in that crowd cheering or participating in the attacks.

So far you have been disruptive, insulting, and are bordering on being blatantly harassing toward me. If you cannot show some respect and you do not care if your conduct is respectable or not, I would appreciate it if you would not post in my threads. If you want to carry on a discussion in civil discourse, there is no reason why you cannot express your disagreemtents with me. I welcome all comments and discussion as long as it's civil.

This has gone way off of the OP for this forum, and I would appreciate it if in future posts you would try to keep your comments in relation to the OP.

I just think it is off, you state atheists kill people (you said you weren't being insensitive) but once I point out that some Christians kill people you take offense (said I was being insensitive). You can't apply that all Christians murder to all christians very similarly to the fact that you can't say all atheists are murderers.

when you say some Christians kill people, please be specific about those events so we can discuss them. Otherwise, I have to assume you only intend to slander and insult me personally for being a Christan. I never said all atheists are murderers. If you will read my OP only a tiny bit more carefully, you will see that I repeatedly described most atheists as fine citizens who display outstading moral conduct. Because you are ignoring the OP, and pulling things out of thin air to put words in my mouth and insult and slander me based on events in history which you cannot even name by time, place,or persons involved, I have to believe that your intention is for nothing but to insult and harass me.

If you are not interested in acknowledging and discussing the OP, you are not welcome here. Insults and harassment are likely to be reported as such if you ignore my appeals for mutually respectful civil discourse. I don't mind if you disagree with me, but please keep your disagreements in line with the OP and not ignoring the OP and making false accusations against me and putting words in my mouth.

Good night. I hope to find your conversation more pleasant in the morning.

well if it means anything I did add to it above.
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/14/2015 9:59:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 9:30:57 PM, XVIII18 wrote:
Anyway, to add to your discussion:

"The one thing atheists hope for above all, and the one thing they insist that they know they have, is the absence of the everlasting fire of Hell in the Lake of Fire where the smoke of their torments will never cease to rise from."

That is a strong straw-man argument, how can you claim what an atheist knows if you truly are not an atheist?

Not a bad comment and question, though to miniimize the expression of your opinion by using the phrase "straw man argument" is a weak argument from you.. I'm too tired now, I'l get back with you on this tomorrow, probably toward evening time. Maybe by then you can think of a way to express your opinion more thoughtfully than by insulting my intial conversation by calling it a straw man argument.. You need to express your opinion more logically so i can understand what you are trying to say, thank you.
Fido
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1/14/2015 10:11:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 9:46:25 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/14/2015 4:51:14 PM, Fido wrote:
how about I blow you and your nonsense off for good? Sound like a winner godboy?

hopefully that means you will be ignoring me from now on since you seem to be unable to engage in civil discourse. This will be the last time I appeal to you for civil discourse before I report you for harassment and insults. If you want to engage in civil discourse, your comments are welcome if you agree with my perspectives or not. I am not going to repeatedly ask you to refrain from insults and harassment. I know I was harsh with you in the past and said some things that were not called for. I hope you feel like you have gotten even with me now. If you can't get to the point of mutual respect with me, I will have no choice but to appeal for moderation by reporting you for harassing and insulting.

this is my final appeal to you for civil discourse. Any more insults and provocations from you will be reported as harassment and insults.

No sir;... I was trying to be civil and you want to threaten. Enjoy, Good bye, and I have blocked you out as much as possible.
ford_prefect
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1/15/2015 3:19:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Many things wrong in this thread, but the biggest mistakes are 1) the KJV bible is atrocious as far as accuracy goes and 2) Catholics are definitely Christian. If anything, many protestant sects are less Christian than Catholicism.
Lukas8
Posts: 31
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1/15/2015 6:20:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do you think that Christians are perfect. There were many but aber many killers that very christian or attended church or were very religious. Its quite sad that all religious people think that we"re evil, thats not true. We"re only sceptical to religion because it doesnt make sense while science does. But terror-atheism isnt atheism its something else.
Illegalcombatant
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1/15/2015 6:32:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/14/2015 2:20:15 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/13/2015 8:33:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Here is a question for you, should we believe a religious belief because we have being scared into it ? the answer is clearly no. Cause you can use the threat of eternal hell fire to justify anything and everything.

Unless you do such and such............your going to hell.

But why think like that ? i mean you don't come across as thinking nor do you want others to think. It just about getting people to believe as you do "saving souls".

Why not teach people critical thinking and how to use it against religious claims ? cause that would kind of get in the way of such religious belief now wouldn't it, People might GASP think for themselves and not just believe what is spoon feed to them.

ok.....here you only use one insult, saying I come accross as not thinking. Do you see that it requires some thought for me to pick out this blatant insult and try to nicely say to you that it is rude? Do you see I am trying to thoughtfully engage you in conversation which allows for disagreement in mutual respect? If you can only insult me, how are you going to hear anything I say? If I'm wasting my time trying to talk to you, and all of your comments can be summarised as nothing but an insult, then I have to ask you to stay out of my threads. I really hope you will drop the insults and try to engage in a mutually respectful conversation. In hope that you are capable of doing that, I will answer your questions with questions and let's see what you think........and I'm trying to keep the focus on the OP of this thread. I don't want to have a wild arguement with you. I created this thread to discuss the differences in religions and sects regarding what Jesus taught about His deity and his assertions of the reality of Hell's torments and the Lake of Fire.
It is those two things that make Him different than all reliigions. I am for Jesus Christ. I am against religious claims and relgious beliefs. Jesus Christ is a person, not a reliigion. I believe Him. I do not follow or practice religion.

You should not follow a religious belief because it scares you. Some people might become afraid of ending up in Hell, and desire to be sure they do not, but to follow a religious belief because you are afraid of Hell cannot give you assurance of not ending up in Hell. How can I be threattening you with Hell when I do not hold Hell in my hand? I'm not God. If you think God is threatening you with Hell,

Because the threat is made on Gods behalf by your fellow man. That is how it is threatening.

I suggest you try to get a peace contract signed between you and God so you won't feel threatened any more. Trying to warn you of the danger of Hell is not threatening you, it's trying to get you saved. Your critcial thinking is so critical, you are having trouble listening and your criticisim much to easily devolves into insults.

You are two faced.

Oh we are not threating you with hell we are just warning you. This claim can be made by ANYONE to justify ANYTHING..............hey we are just trying to save you don't' you know.

Atheism is a religious belief in which the believer hopes he has the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell and beleives he has that right because he sees no evidence of the reality of Hell. This is the hope of Atheists, and all religions are built on offering this same hope with no way of being sure that the religious person can exixt outside of the fire of Hell.

Atheism is a religious belief...........................moving on

Many atheists and religious people hold to the highest standards of morals and personal conduct in hope of securing the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell. Jesus Christ, the person, not the religion, gives assurance of the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell because He is God and He has the power to give or deny that right.

Now, if you have any more comments or questions, please refrain from putting them in ways that are nothing but insults. If you want to teach people about the value of your own style of "critical thinking", why not make your own forum instead of coming here and trying to ruin mine?

Anyone can threaten i mean "warn" people about hell and what they have to do or not do in order to avoid such a fate.

It's a direct appeal to fear.........you F*cking know it.

That tactic can be used to justify anything and everything............you F*cking know it

So we are back to square one. Man......................your fellow man making claims for the divine which can't be tested.

All you can do is make very questionable assertions about what is or is not in compliance with the avoidance of hell.

Stop kidding your self with such double speak. Oh we don't "threaten" people we just warn them.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/15/2015 9:50:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
your insults and profanities are harassements. I want you to stay out of my threads if yoiu cannot keep the conversation civil, and it seems you cannot so I have to ask you to stay out of my threads.

If you think this is directed at you, you are probably correct.