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Unimaginable God Identifies With Imaginable..

dattaswami
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1/24/2015 1:33:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
(Message of Shri Datta Swami)

As such Unimaginable God is Not Visible Even by Microscope.

The same human being should identify the human incarnation as God and simultaneously should identify himself as not the God, being the servant of God. The first view is possible by the concept of Shankara and the second view is possible by the concept of Ramanuja and Madhva. Identifying the human incarnation as God, has always a risk of development of the misinterpretation that every human being is God and hence, [is extended to] himself also. This misinterpretation should be negated by the second concept. Therefore, both these contradicting concepts are useful to the same human being in the same time. The possibility for the misinterpretation is based on the common human being existing in the human incarnation and the human being. Human being is a single component system appearing as a single phase.

This human being is mixed with the other component called as God and the resulting product is the human incarnation appearing as the same human being. Even in a two component system like an alloy, both the metals can be identified differently through microscope. Since, both the metals are not differentiated by the naked eye, single phase is attributed. In the human incarnation, such possibility is not there. The second component, God, is unimaginable and therefore, is naturally invisible even to the microscope. The imaginable may be visible or invisible. But, the unimaginable is always invisible. Therefore, the human incarnation also appears as a single phase with single component only since the second component being unimaginable is not visible even to the microscope.

The presence of the second component can be only inferred through the unimaginable effects experienced from the human incarnation. Therefore, the ordinary human being and the human incarnation are completely one and the same as far as the body and the soul are concerned. Both the body and soul, called human being, should be treated as one component. Hence, there is every possibility to feel that the human incarnation is exactly the same human being in and out. When such human incarnation, which is the human being only for all the practical purposes, is God, why not every human being be God? For the convenient development of this concept, the single component, the human being, is sub-divided into two sub-components, called body and soul. The soul is said to be God (Purusha) and the body is said to be creation (Prakruti).

The Gita says that both body and soul are creation only. The body is said to be lower part of creation (apara prakruti) and the soul is said to be the higher part of creation (para prakruti). Therefore, both body and soul are creation only and none of these two is creator. All the creation is imaginable, which consists of visible body and invisible soul. Of course, the body also consists of invisible binding energy apart from the major visible matter. The soul is made of invisible nervous energy. Therefore, in loose general sense, we can say the body is visible. The creator is unimaginable and is totally different from body and soul. This careful analysis is clearly shown in the Gita.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
drpiek
Posts: 589
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1/24/2015 8:23:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 1:33:40 AM, dattaswami wrote:
(Message of Shri Datta Swami)

As such Unimaginable God is Not Visible Even by Microscope.

The same human being should identify the human incarnation as God and simultaneously should identify himself as not the God, being the servant of God. The first view is possible by the concept of Shankara and the second view is possible by the concept of Ramanuja and Madhva. Identifying the human incarnation as God, has always a risk of development of the misinterpretation that every human being is God and hence, [is extended to] himself also. This misinterpretation should be negated by the second concept. Therefore, both these contradicting concepts are useful to the same human being in the same time. The possibility for the misinterpretation is based on the common human being existing in the human incarnation and the human being. Human being is a single component system appearing as a single phase.

This human being is mixed with the other component called as God and the resulting product is the human incarnation appearing as the same human being. Even in a two component system like an alloy, both the metals can be identified differently through microscope. Since, both the metals are not differentiated by the naked eye, single phase is attributed. In the human incarnation, such possibility is not there. The second component, God, is unimaginable and therefore, is naturally invisible even to the microscope. The imaginable may be visible or invisible. But, the unimaginable is always invisible. Therefore, the human incarnation also appears as a single phase with single component only since the second component being unimaginable is not visible even to the microscope.

The presence of the second component can be only inferred through the unimaginable effects experienced from the human incarnation. Therefore, the ordinary human being and the human incarnation are completely one and the same as far as the body and the soul are concerned. Both the body and soul, called human being, should be treated as one component. Hence, there is every possibility to feel that the human incarnation is exactly the same human being in and out. When such human incarnation, which is the human being only for all the practical purposes, is God, why not every human being be God? For the convenient development of this concept, the single component, the human being, is sub-divided into two sub-components, called body and soul. The soul is said to be God (Purusha) and the body is said to be creation (Prakruti).

The Gita says that both body and soul are creation only. The body is said to be lower part of creation (apara prakruti) and the soul is said to be the higher part of creation (para prakruti). Therefore, both body and soul are creation only and none of these two is creator. All the creation is imaginable, which consists of visible body and invisible soul. Of course, the body also consists of invisible binding energy apart from the major visible matter. The soul is made of invisible nervous energy. Therefore, in loose general sense, we can say the body is visible. The creator is unimaginable and is totally different from body and soul. This careful analysis is clearly shown in the Gita.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

So you are saying we are all god and gods servant, right? I agree with that.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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1/25/2015 1:48:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/24/2015 8:23:18 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 1/24/2015 1:33:40 AM, dattaswami wrote:
So you are saying we are all god and gods servant, right? I agree with that.

from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

You have missed the point. God identifies with a particular human being only like Krishna, Jesus, Prophet etc. but not all. If everybody is God, then who is God's servant? It is meaningless.

So, God with whom He identified, that human being is only God. Rest of the humanity can be servants to such God because such human being is not different from God.

John 10:30 'I (Jesus) and the Father (God) are One.'

Avajananti mam mudha manushim tanumashritam |
Param bhavamajananto mama bhutamaheshvaram || 9-11|| Bhagavad Gita

When I enter the human body in becoming the human incarnation, the human beings who are egoistic and jealous do not recognize Me, the Lord of this world. They treat Me as a human being and repel against Me due to their inherent repulsion towards any greatness seen in their co-human beings. Instead of accepting Me as the greatest, they hate and even insult Me.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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1/25/2015 8:44:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 1:48:49 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 1/24/2015 8:23:18 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 1/24/2015 1:33:40 AM, dattaswami wrote:
So you are saying we are all god and gods servant, right? I agree with that.

from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

You have missed the point. God identifies with a particular human being only like Krishna, Jesus, Prophet etc. but not all. If everybody is God, then who is God's servant? It is meaningless.

So, God with whom He identified, that human being is only God. Rest of the humanity can be servants to such God because such human being is not different from God.

John 10:30 'I (Jesus) and the Father (God) are One.'

Avajananti mam mudha manushim tanumashritam |
Param bhavamajananto mama bhutamaheshvaram || 9-11|| Bhagavad Gita

When I enter the human body in becoming the human incarnation, the human beings who are egoistic and jealous do not recognize Me, the Lord of this world. They treat Me as a human being and repel against Me due to their inherent repulsion towards any greatness seen in their co-human beings. Instead of accepting Me as the greatest, they hate and even insult Me.

So you are saying, if I believe I am God, then I can look at everyone else as my servant because they are not me? Is god powerful enough to be in be two people at once? Could Krishna and Jesus meet? If two, then why not three, or 1000, or all? My god has the power to be all things at the same time, why doesn't yours?
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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1/26/2015 1:29:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/25/2015 8:44:28 AM, drpiek wrote:
So you are saying, if I believe I am God, then I can look at everyone else as my servant because they are not me? Is god powerful enough to be in be two people at once? Could Krishna and Jesus meet? If two, then why not three, or 1000, or all? My god has the power to be all things at the same time, why doesn't yours?

Reply:

Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

Responsibility behind Human Incarnation

Everybody wants to become Jesus or Krishna to get divine fame in society in similar way without such cruel death at end. Such desire is hidden in subconscious state of all devotees even without their knowledge. Today there is freedom of expression of spiritual thought & there is constitutional protection & hence preacher need not fear for crucifixion. Hence, now, above desire is very strong.

But one must remember that Jesus allowed crucifixion from view of single point that is to suffer for sins of His people (Refer meaning of Emmanuel), who are deserving & to save them from sins. In Bible, it is clearly said that He came to save His people & not all people. Now, can you suffer like Jesus for sake of sins of your closest deserving devotees?

Perhaps, now, your above desire is subsided! Powers are always associated with responsibilities. However, if any devotee wants position of human incarnation in spite of awareness of responsibilities, there is open chance for every human being to become human incarnation. First you must concentrate on correct divine knowledge, through which you must receive a clear-cut picture of whole procedure. You must know that you are not already God since God is not ancestral property that is already given to you without any effort as felt by Advaitin.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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1/26/2015 9:38:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 1:29:37 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 1/25/2015 8:44:28 AM, drpiek wrote:
So you are saying, if I believe I am God, then I can look at everyone else as my servant because they are not me? Is god powerful enough to be in be two people at once? Could Krishna and Jesus meet? If two, then why not three, or 1000, or all? My god has the power to be all things at the same time, why doesn't yours?

Reply:

Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

OK, I agree in principle

Responsibility behind Human Incarnation

Everybody wants to become Jesus or Krishna to get divine fame in society in similar way without such cruel death at end. Such desire is hidden in subconscious state of all devotees even without their knowledge. Today there is freedom of expression of spiritual thought & there is constitutional protection & hence preacher need not fear for crucifixion. Hence, now, above desire is very strong.

I disagree, you are suggesting everybody is ruled by their ego. When you know who you are, and who everyone else is, you do not need divine fame, because you have divinity.

But one must remember that Jesus allowed crucifixion from view of single point that is to suffer for sins of His people (Refer meaning of Emmanuel), who are deserving & to save them from sins. In Bible, it is clearly said that He came to save His people & not all people. Now, can you suffer like Jesus for sake of sins of your closest deserving devotees?

You assume the path Jesus took is a necessary path that all incarnations of god must walk.

Perhaps, now, your above desire is subsided! Powers are always associated with responsibilities. However, if any devotee wants position of human incarnation in spite of awareness of responsibilities, there is open chance for every human being to become human incarnation. First you must concentrate on correct divine knowledge, through which you must receive a clear-cut picture of whole procedure. You must know that you are not already God since God is not ancestral property that is already given to you without any effort as felt by Advaitin.

I reject the hindu views that life is suffering that are caused by desires and the only answer is detachment, liberation and release.

Life is a process of understanding who we truly are. It is not that one is not god then becomes god through effort. Everyone is already god, but they do not fully understand or remember that. Over time your understanding of who you are continues to increase to infinity. People often respond, "How can god not know who he is?" The answer is simple, that is just one of the infinite powers that god has and when you understand this, there is no paradox.
dattaswami
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1/26/2015 10:43:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 9:38:25 AM, drpiek wrote:
You assume the path Jesus took is a necessary path that all incarnations of god must walk.
Life is a process of understanding who we truly are. It is not that one is not god then becomes god through effort. Everyone is already god, but they do not fully understand or remember that.

Reply:
Not only Jesus, all the incarnations suffer for the sins of the devotees.

For protecting the good people (Pandavas) and for punishing Kauravas, Lord Krishna was cursed by Gandhari because of which, He died by the arrow shot on His foot. This is crucification only for the sake of good people like Pandavas.

Whether you believe karma chakra or not, it exists. Otherwise, you cannot explain the happiness and misery in a logical way. The administration of God is highly logical. It is not random.

The Lord comes down in human form and undergoes the punishments for the sake of devotees and save them. At the same time, He will protect the prestige of God of Justice and the theory of Karma. This is the main reason for His human incarnation. He will never cancel the fruits of deeds. He will sacrifice Himself and protects you. When you cannot pay the fine, your father pays it. You must become eligible for such grace of the Lord. The eligibility is achieved by you when you do not aspire to get rid of the fruits of your deeds and prepare to undergo the punishments of all your sins. You should never think that the Lord should sacrifice for your sake.
drpiek
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1/26/2015 11:00:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 10:43:57 AM, dattaswami wrote:

Reply:
Not only Jesus, all the incarnations suffer for the sins of the devotees.


This is you trying to box god into one way of being. God is as god wants to be, god has no religion, or set process he must follow. While we can see patterns in life, nature, and consciousnesses, those patterns are left behind to show what god has done. They do not dictate what god will, or must do.

The only sin is when one person purposely harms another person for pleasure. Because then you are harming yourself. God has Compassion for everyone Devotee or not. Do not mistake compassion for suffering.

God does not have to suffer to save me. I am not a burden to God, and he can save people in any way he chooses to.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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1/27/2015 11:35:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2015 11:00:14 AM, drpiek wrote:
This is you trying to box god into one way of being. God is as god wants to be, god has no religion, or set process he must follow. While we can see patterns in life, nature, and consciousnesses, those patterns are left behind to show what god has done. They do not dictate what god will, or must do.

The only sin is when one person purposely harms another person for pleasure. Because then you are harming yourself. God has Compassion for everyone Devotee or not. Do not mistake compassion for suffering.

God does not have to suffer to save me. I am not a burden to God, and he can save people in any way he chooses to.

Reply: Scriptures, which are the word of God, tells you the knowledge about God. So, there is nothing like dictating terms to God. God Himself declared how His actions or nature etc., will be through scriptures.

Nature of Lord - Nature of Teacher

Lord Datta is essentially a teacher. His very nature is the nature of a teacher. If you study the nature of teacher, you have understood the very nature of Datta. The aim of mother, father and teacher is only the welfare of the child. But, mother and father may become lenient due to their blind intensive love on the child. But, the love of a teacher (Guru) is never blind and is always aimed at the welfare of student. The love of father and mother may sometimes spoil the welfare of the child. Therefore, Datta treats all the living beings in the creation as His students and not as His issues. Therefore, the teacher is more than father and mother.

The Lord created fruits for both good and bad actions. Why should He create a fruit for an action? Let there be acts without fruits. The child does mischief, but the mother or father does not punish. In that case, there is no fruit for that action. Similarly, let the Lord not punish our sins. If you expect like this, the answer is that the Lord does not behave like father or mother but behaves only as a teacher. The child gets spoiled if the mischief is tolerated. We are seeing this in the world. The teacher will never tolerate the spoiling of the child and therefore, He will not tolerate the mischief.

God uses the fruits of your sins as punishments and the only aim is your welfare. This is the reason why Datta is always called as Guru Datta. Therefore, guru or teacher is greatest. The results of bad deeds are used as punishments to transform and uplift the student. Therefore, the result of a bad deed is very very useful for the transformation of the soul. The results of your good deeds are given to you just as a relaxation between two punishments. When He punishes systematically, He is called as Yama. In the interval when you receive happiness, He is Indra. Sometimes He gives severe punishments with roaring sound. He is called as Kala Bhairava at that time. The hell is the special equipment for punishment. The aim of the punishment is only the real welfare.
drpiek
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1/27/2015 12:44:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/27/2015 11:35:49 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 1/26/2015 11:00:14 AM, drpiek wrote:
This is you trying to box god into one way of being. God is as god wants to be, god has no religion, or set process he must follow. While we can see patterns in life, nature, and consciousnesses, those patterns are left behind to show what god has done. They do not dictate what god will, or must do.

The only sin is when one person purposely harms another person for pleasure. Because then you are harming yourself. God has Compassion for everyone Devotee or not. Do not mistake compassion for suffering.

God does not have to suffer to save me. I am not a burden to God, and he can save people in any way he chooses to.

Reply: Scriptures, which are the word of God, tells you the knowledge about God. So, there is nothing like dictating terms to God. God Himself declared how His actions or nature etc., will be through scriptures.

Nature of Lord - Nature of Teacher

Lord Datta is essentially a teacher. His very nature is the nature of a teacher. If you study the nature of teacher, you have understood the very nature of Datta. The aim of mother, father and teacher is only the welfare of the child. But, mother and father may become lenient due to their blind intensive love on the child. But, the love of a teacher (Guru) is never blind and is always aimed at the welfare of student. The love of father and mother may sometimes spoil the welfare of the child. Therefore, Datta treats all the living beings in the creation as His students and not as His issues. Therefore, the teacher is more than father and mother.

The Lord created fruits for both good and bad actions. Why should He create a fruit for an action? Let there be acts without fruits. The child does mischief, but the mother or father does not punish. In that case, there is no fruit for that action. Similarly, let the Lord not punish our sins. If you expect like this, the answer is that the Lord does not behave like father or mother but behaves only as a teacher. The child gets spoiled if the mischief is tolerated. We are seeing this in the world. The teacher will never tolerate the spoiling of the child and therefore, He will not tolerate the mischief.

God uses the fruits of your sins as punishments and the only aim is your welfare. This is the reason why Datta is always called as Guru Datta. Therefore, guru or teacher is greatest. The results of bad deeds are used as punishments to transform and uplift the student. Therefore, the result of a bad deed is very very useful for the transformation of the soul. The results of your good deeds are given to you just as a relaxation between two punishments. When He punishes systematically, He is called as Yama. In the interval when you receive happiness, He is Indra. Sometimes He gives severe punishments with roaring sound. He is called as Kala Bhairava at that time. The hell is the special equipment for punishment. The aim of the punishment is only the real welfare.

You preach without answering the question. Why does god have to suffer for man? Is there really anything God MUST do? Tell Datta, he should be my Devotee.
dattaswami
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2/1/2015 5:53:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/27/2015 12:44:42 PM, drpiek wrote:
You preach without answering the question. Why does god have to suffer for man? Is there really anything God MUST do? Tell Datta, he should be my Devotee.

Reply: It is out of love for devotee. He will not suffer for every human being.

He will never cancel the fruits of deeds. He will sacrifice Himself and protects you. When you cannot pay the fine, your father pays it. You must become eligible for such grace of the Lord. The eligibility is achieved by you when you do not aspire to get rid of the fruits of your deeds and prepare to undergo the punishments of all your sins. You should never think that the Lord should sacrifice for your sake.

The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine knowledge to uplift this world. God is like free electrons flowing in the atmosphere. These Electrons are the electricity. Then can you heat water by keeping the vessel containing water in the atmosphere? When these Electrons enter a medium like the metallic wire, you can heat water. If the medium is human form it is most convenient for you to clear your doubts, to love and to serve Him.

The human incarnation is the most convenient form for the worship and service. When you say that God is omnipotent it means that God has all powers. If He cannot come in human form, He is not having that power. Then He cannot be omnipotent. When He has the power to take the human incarnation, He has come in human form. Who are you to object that? He comes in human form for those devotees who are fond of worshipping Him through real service. They like to talk with God and live with God. They like to serve the God and see the pleasure in His face. They get full satisfaction by that. Therefore, God is in human form for such devotees only.

Those who do not like the human form can worship God through formless inert items like space, energy etc. or inert forms like statues. But such worship is not the direct worship and it is only a representative worship. Neither space is God nor God is in the space. Similar is the case of a statue. Both formless space and formful statue stand as representatives of God only. Ofcourse God is pleased with the representative worship also, but the direct experience of God and the possibility of pleasing Him to the maximum extent are possible in the human body only.