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Why is it the way it is?

SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/6/2015 8:12:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Trouble is we can't have an infinite regression of "why" in practical terms, so you end with either an axiom, brute fact or circular reasoning.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/6/2015 8:21:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 8:12:33 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.
I agree. I tend to think a lot of human reasoning is circular in nature.
Trouble is we can't have an infinite regression of "why" in practical terms, so you end with either an axiom, brute fact or circular reasoning.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/6/2015 8:43:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Your point doesn't always apply because at some point in one's reason, theory, belief etc one has an assumption that is axiomatic. You either belief that axiom or you don't. Here the circular reasoning fallacy although technically correct is illegimate.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/6/2015 9:21:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 8:43:50 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Your point doesn't always apply because at some point in one's reason, theory, belief etc one has an assumption that is axiomatic. You either belief that axiom or you don't. Here the circular reasoning fallacy although technically correct is illegimate.
Faor enough.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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2/6/2015 10:23:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

It's only circular reasoning if you say it is that way because it's that way. If you say "It's like this and I don't know why," or just don't provide a reason, that's not circular.

Usually any argument assumes "premises" which means, positions which have no need of reasons because it's assumed that both people agree to them. If you question a premise and someone doesn't provide further reasoning or concede, then that's bad argumentation. A premise only functions if both people already accept it as given. "Axioms" (when considered as a distinct kind of unquestionable premise,) I consider just another name for this type of faulty reasoning.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/7/2015 12:14:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

- Not always, a Definition is, by definition, what it is, a Convention also. An Axiom is the way it is, or so to speak, a Fact too is what it is.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/7/2015 1:06:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nope, that is not circular reasoning.

If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nonsense, one can report an observation without stating why, if I say "it's raining" without giving a reason for why it's raining, that certainly is not circular reasoning.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/7/2015 12:55:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:23:34 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

It's only circular reasoning if you say it is that way because it's that way. If you say "It's like this and I don't know why," or just don't provide a reason, that's not circular.

Usually any argument assumes "premises" which means, positions which have no need of reasons because it's assumed that both people agree to them. If you question a premise and someone doesn't provide further reasoning or concede, then that's bad argumentation. A premise only functions if both people already accept it as given. "Axioms" (when considered as a distinct kind of unquestionable premise,) I consider just another name for this type of faulty reasoning.

I disagree. Saying thats the way it is without giving a reason is circular reasoning.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/7/2015 1:02:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:06:00 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nope, that is not circular reasoning.

If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nonsense, one can report an observation without stating why, if I say "it's raining" without giving a reason for why it's raining, that certainly is not circular reasoning.
Yes it is. Saying thats the way it is withiout giving a reason is a circular reasoning fallacy.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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2/7/2015 9:25:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 12:55:01 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:23:34 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

It's only circular reasoning if you say it is that way because it's that way. If you say "It's like this and I don't know why," or just don't provide a reason, that's not circular.

Usually any argument assumes "premises" which means, positions which have no need of reasons because it's assumed that both people agree to them. If you question a premise and someone doesn't provide further reasoning or concede, then that's bad argumentation. A premise only functions if both people already accept it as given. "Axioms" (when considered as a distinct kind of unquestionable premise,) I consider just another name for this type of faulty reasoning.

I disagree. Saying thats the way it is without giving a reason is circular reasoning.

So if I say "the sky is blue" without giving a reason, is that statement circular?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
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2/7/2015 10:32:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 9:25:20 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/7/2015 12:55:01 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:23:34 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

It's only circular reasoning if you say it is that way because it's that way. If you say "It's like this and I don't know why," or just don't provide a reason, that's not circular.

Usually any argument assumes "premises" which means, positions which have no need of reasons because it's assumed that both people agree to them. If you question a premise and someone doesn't provide further reasoning or concede, then that's bad argumentation. A premise only functions if both people already accept it as given. "Axioms" (when considered as a distinct kind of unquestionable premise,) I consider just another name for this type of faulty reasoning.

I disagree. Saying thats the way it is without giving a reason is circular reasoning.

So if I say "the sky is blue" without giving a reason, is that statement circular?

If you're going to say that's the way itt is, you need to say why. It is a generally accepted rule of debate that you need to back up your argument with facts. Yes or no: Can you saAY WHY THAT'S THE WAY IT IS?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/8/2015 6:25:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 10:32:25 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 2/7/2015 9:25:20 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/7/2015 12:55:01 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:23:34 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

It's only circular reasoning if you say it is that way because it's that way. If you say "It's like this and I don't know why," or just don't provide a reason, that's not circular.

Usually any argument assumes "premises" which means, positions which have no need of reasons because it's assumed that both people agree to them. If you question a premise and someone doesn't provide further reasoning or concede, then that's bad argumentation. A premise only functions if both people already accept it as given. "Axioms" (when considered as a distinct kind of unquestionable premise,) I consider just another name for this type of faulty reasoning.

I disagree. Saying thats the way it is without giving a reason is circular reasoning.

So if I say "the sky is blue" without giving a reason, is that statement circular?

If you're going to say that's the way itt is, you need to say why. It is a generally accepted rule of debate that you need to back up your argument with facts. Yes or no: Can you saAY WHY THAT'S THE WAY IT IS?

A chicken lays an egg. That's the way it is. WHY ? Because that is part of the natural process of chickens. It's a simple FACT.
The egg becomes a chicken. That's the way it is. WHY? Because the egg was fertilized and grows up into one due to a natural process of growth.
Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
No one can know. WHY? Because the chicken and egg process is a CYCLE which keeps repeating itself.
That's the way it is. WHY? Because of the natural process of life.

Life is what it is. Its processes can be observed and we can learn a lot from them if we want to.

Some things simply ARE and there is no particular reason for them being what they are other than they are a result of natural processes.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/9/2015 10:59:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:02:42 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 2/7/2015 1:06:00 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nope, that is not circular reasoning.

If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Nonsense, one can report an observation without stating why, if I say "it's raining" without giving a reason for why it's raining, that certainly is not circular reasoning.
Yes it is. Saying thats the way it is withiout giving a reason is a circular reasoning fallacy.

Nonsense, circular reasoning is a type of reasoning, if you give no reason it is not an instance of circular reasoning.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/9/2015 3:10:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

That's the way it is because nothing is learned from history. You can try and change it, but you won't because the masses will never learn from history as they are always the smartest that ever lived. Then their way doesn't work because that has already been tried 500 years ago and failed and you're back to that's just the way it is.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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Student4Life1975
Posts: 57
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4/24/2015 3:44:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 6:39:17 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
So manyy people say thats the way it is without giving a reason for why thats the way it is. This is a classic example of the circular reasoning fallacy. If youre going to say thats the way it is, you have to say why it is the way it is or you are committing the circular reasoning fallacy.

Its the way it is because it had to be ONE way. Mathematically it had to be ONE way and your question implies this way was chosen in some sense. Think of it not being this way as a RESULT of many variables collaberating in a specific way to end up with what you see and experience every day, but instead having no other choice. Take you for an example. You COULD say the chances of you being here depended on many many people from thousands of years having sex at just the right time in just the right place, and BAM there you were thousands of years later. HUGE coincidence isnt it? What are the chances, especially when you consider all of the trillions of variables that had to coincide just perfectly together (like going for a late night walk your grandfather never took before in his life, and on that night he met your grandmother for example) in order for you to be born at all. Now, think of it as just billions of people doing what they do for thousands of years, and by the chance that results from these interactions you were the result. Both scenarios have the same outcome, but one (the first one) implies a considerably more complex linear chain of events and thus results in far more meaning in the end. The second scenario is nothing more than a massive cluster of the same things, but with absolutely no organizational purpose or coherent meaning. Things just happened the way they did not because there was intention behind it, but because it just did. There is nothing more than chaos, randomness and arbitrary circumstances involved. But SOMETHING (you) had to result from it (along with 7.3 Billion other people all around the world who think they are special too). The Universe and everything in it are nothing more.
there is no progress without compromise"