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Morality cannot logically exist without God

Pase66
Posts: 775
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2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...
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It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
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sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Pase66
Posts: 775
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2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Pase66
Posts: 775
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2/26/2015 6:01:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

Within the parameters of the debate, I had to, but that it was possible without a god. Also, there is such thing as immorality. Just sayin.
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same. It is man who attempts to interpret it differently and use it to commit evil through his innate subjective mind. I try to rationalize sometimes but in the end I know I am always wrong. How do I know I am wrong? It's easy, you can feel it. Why would you doubt and have feelings of guilt if what you were doing was right.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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2/26/2015 7:54:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Very interesting debate! I can't vote on debates, but I applaud your efforts here. It was a strong and well-presented case and not just because I completely agree with you. ;) Also, thanks for the source regarding the empathy argument. Liang Shuming did mention evolution in his book, but the guy was no biologist and didn't have much science to back up that claim. Now I know where to find some. :D

Will you mind if I steal this and other arguments you made in the debate?
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Pase66
Posts: 775
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2/26/2015 8:21:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 7:54:26 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Very interesting debate! I can't vote on debates, but I applaud your efforts here. It was a strong and well-presented case and not just because I completely agree with you. ;) Also, thanks for the source regarding the empathy argument. Liang Shuming did mention evolution in his book, but the guy was no biologist and didn't have much science to back up that claim. Now I know where to find some. :D

Will you mind if I steal this and other arguments you made in the debate?

Go ahead man! And thanks! Also, if they ask on what basis evolution is true, show them this:
https://www.youtube.com...
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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2/26/2015 9:34:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.
The basic moral principles (benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom) are innate to man and always remain the same. Differences in moral code are usually, by my observations, stemming from conflicts between moral principles (e.g. abortion: benevolence towards women vs benevolence towards babies) and how much someone has worked on his morals (someone who has worked less to improve his morals might think prostitution or premarital sex are acceptable, for example).

The word of god always remains the same. It is man who attempts to interpret it differently and use it to commit evil through his innate subjective mind. I try to rationalize sometimes but in the end I know I am always wrong. How do I know I am wrong? It's easy, you can feel it. Why would you doubt and have feelings of guilt if what you were doing was right.
You've just proved that the principle of righteousness is innate to all humans!
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,234
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2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/27/2015 3:49:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.

You have your source for what is moral and I have mine. My source never changes with public opinion or the passage of time.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,234
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2/27/2015 11:44:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:49:07 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.

You have your source for what is moral and I have mine. My source never changes with public opinion or the passage of time.

Were some one interested in turning 'The Art of War' into a philosophy to live by, the same would also be true.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/28/2015 7:49:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 11:44:50 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:49:07 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.

You have your source for what is moral and I have mine. My source never changes with public opinion or the passage of time.

Were some one interested in turning 'The Art of War' into a philosophy to live by, the same would also be true.

What ever. You follow your compass and i will follow mine.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
missmedic
Posts: 388
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3/1/2015 10:34:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
We should admit that god never gives us the freedom to follow the commandments we like and neglect the rest. Nor does god tell us that we can relax the penalties he has imposed for breaking them, which is death. This is why Christians follow there own morals and not there god's.
Historically, the concept of morality has often been used negatively as a list of "thou shall not's" in check against ones actions. The stance taken is often that it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you don't violate any moral edicts; but the source of these moral edicts is often mystical or arbitrary.
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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3/1/2015 10:47:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

Too bad time travel doesn't exist so people like yourself could be transported back, 3000 years where you would be happy.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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3/1/2015 3:09:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 10:47:58 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

Too bad time travel doesn't exist so people like yourself could be transported back, 3000 years where you would be happy.

The feeling is mutual buddy.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Df0512
Posts: 966
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3/2/2015 4:11:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Interesting debate. I'd have to side with you however thejames is putting up a good fight. IMO if your going to prove morals came from God you would first have to prove God exists. That is, if you were to debate me about it. If you believe in God then this is a biblical debate and this topic probably should go under religion. And it shouldn't called " Morality cannot logically exist without God". Logically, is the wrong word to use in these circumstances.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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3/2/2015 6:13:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 4:11:47 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Interesting debate. I'd have to side with you however thejames is putting up a good fight. IMO if your going to prove morals came from God you would first have to prove God exists. That is, if you were to debate me about it. If you believe in God then this is a biblical debate and this topic probably should go under religion. And it shouldn't called " Morality cannot logically exist without God". Logically, is the wrong word to use in these circumstances.

In the debate, there was the assumption that god exists. But then we would also have to assume other factors to be true, such as enlightenment, which demeans thejames's whole case. But thanks!
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
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Df0512
Posts: 966
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3/3/2015 9:06:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 6:13:37 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 3/2/2015 4:11:47 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Interesting debate. I'd have to side with you however thejames is putting up a good fight. IMO if your going to prove morals came from God you would first have to prove God exists. That is, if you were to debate me about it. If you believe in God then this is a biblical debate and this topic probably should go under religion. And it shouldn't called " Morality cannot logically exist without God". Logically, is the wrong word to use in these circumstances.

In the debate, there was the assumption that god exists. But then we would also have to assume other factors to be true, such as enlightenment, which demeans thejames's whole case. But thanks!

But thanks?? It was my opinion, not a suggestion. Just saying, kind of seems like a moot point to me.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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3/3/2015 10:20:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've never understood how God can give rise to any morality, since his morality must always be subsumed into my own preference anyway. For instance, God can say, "Don't do X or you'll go to hell," and this would work only because I prefer not to go to hell. But, if God says "Don't do X, even though if you do, you'll get eternal bliss with no negative repercussions," this will have no influence over my decision whatsoever. It's an empty instruction. So God's will would really just be another preference opposed to my own.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,248
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3/3/2015 12:14:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 10:20:11 AM, sdavio wrote:
I've never understood how God can give rise to any morality, since his morality must always be subsumed into my own preference anyway. For instance, God can say, "Don't do X or you'll go to hell," and this would work only because I prefer not to go to hell. But, if God says "Don't do X, even though if you do, you'll get eternal bliss with no negative repercussions," this will have no influence over my decision whatsoever. It's an empty instruction. So God's will would really just be another preference opposed to my own.

This assertion does not actually contain a justification. You've merely stated that God's morality is a subjective opinion, and thus, it can only be judged with respect to one's own moral standard. I.e., that God's morality must be judged according to the perceived consequences of following it.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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3/3/2015 3:45:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 9:06:49 AM, Df0512 wrote:
At 3/2/2015 6:13:37 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 3/2/2015 4:11:47 PM, Df0512 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Interesting debate. I'd have to side with you however thejames is putting up a good fight. IMO if your going to prove morals came from God you would first have to prove God exists. That is, if you were to debate me about it. If you believe in God then this is a biblical debate and this topic probably should go under religion. And it shouldn't called " Morality cannot logically exist without God". Logically, is the wrong word to use in these circumstances.

In the debate, there was the assumption that god exists. But then we would also have to assume other factors to be true, such as enlightenment, which demeans thejames's whole case. But thanks!

But thanks?? It was my opinion, not a suggestion. Just saying, kind of seems like a moot point to me.

Sorry, thanks as in siding with me on the debate.
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HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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3/3/2015 4:17:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

Before I formulate a proper reply, could you please answer the following questions:

Which god do you believe in?
How do you know he exists?
How do you know what his will is?
How do you know that what he calls good is truly good?

If you answer these questions we could have an interesting conversation on the subject of morals and god.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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3/3/2015 8:21:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 4:17:16 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

Before I formulate a proper reply, could you please answer the following questions:

Which god do you believe in?
How do you know he exists?
How do you know what his will is?
How do you know that what he calls good is truly good?

If you answer these questions we could have an interesting conversation on the subject of morals and god.

You don't believe in god that's fine. I don't care if you do. I have no use for society's pop culture ever changing moral compass or lack there of. It is pointless to answer the questions. You don't believe in god and no amount of dialog will ever change that. But your goal is to convince me god does not exist and put my hope in you (*MAN)
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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3/3/2015 8:49:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 12:14:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/3/2015 10:20:11 AM, sdavio wrote:
I've never understood how God can give rise to any morality, since his morality must always be subsumed into my own preference anyway. For instance, God can say, "Don't do X or you'll go to hell," and this would work only because I prefer not to go to hell. But, if God says "Don't do X, even though if you do, you'll get eternal bliss with no negative repercussions," this will have no influence over my decision whatsoever. It's an empty instruction. So God's will would really just be another preference opposed to my own.

This assertion does not actually contain a justification. You've merely stated that God's morality is a subjective opinion, and thus, it can only be judged with respect to one's own moral standard. I.e., that God's morality must be judged according to the perceived consequences of following it.

If God's morality is not an opinion, then it is just a fact about what happens, and then it is either not a morality or irrelevant because there is no other possibility. If I can't possibly break the rules, and even if I did it would mean nothing other than a label (the rule has no consequence outside of simply being a rule,) then it is irrelevant.

If your own preference clashes with God's arbitrary decree, and there is no reason for you not to follow your own preference, I don't need to justify the option to you. You are motivated to do it by way of the fact that it's already your preference.

In other words, I don't need to convince or justify you in judging other standards with respect to your own, because this is already what you do by definition of it being your own standard.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,248
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3/3/2015 9:17:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 8:49:14 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 3/3/2015 12:14:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/3/2015 10:20:11 AM, sdavio wrote:
I've never understood how God can give rise to any morality, since his morality must always be subsumed into my own preference anyway. For instance, God can say, "Don't do X or you'll go to hell," and this would work only because I prefer not to go to hell. But, if God says "Don't do X, even though if you do, you'll get eternal bliss with no negative repercussions," this will have no influence over my decision whatsoever. It's an empty instruction. So God's will would really just be another preference opposed to my own.

This assertion does not actually contain a justification. You've merely stated that God's morality is a subjective opinion, and thus, it can only be judged with respect to one's own moral standard. I.e., that God's morality must be judged according to the perceived consequences of following it.

If God's morality is not an opinion, then it is just a fact about what happens, and then it is either not a morality or irrelevant because there is no other possibility. If I can't possibly break the rules, and even if I did it would mean nothing other than a label (the rule has no consequence outside of simply being a rule,) then it is irrelevant.


It is an opinion, but it's objective. I don't understand what you mean by " then it is just a fact about what happens, and then it is either not a morality or irrelevant because there is no other possibility." Why couldn't we be out of sync with God's morality?

If your own preference clashes with God's arbitrary decree, and there is no reason for you not to follow your own preference, I don't need to justify the option to you. You are motivated to do it by way of the fact that it's already your preference.


If God's "decree" were in fact arbitrary, then I would agree.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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3/3/2015 11:06:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 9:17:18 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/3/2015 8:49:14 PM, sdavio wrote:
At 3/3/2015 12:14:25 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/3/2015 10:20:11 AM, sdavio wrote:
I've never understood how God can give rise to any morality, since his morality must always be subsumed into my own preference anyway. For instance, God can say, "Don't do X or you'll go to hell," and this would work only because I prefer not to go to hell. But, if God says "Don't do X, even though if you do, you'll get eternal bliss with no negative repercussions," this will have no influence over my decision whatsoever. It's an empty instruction. So God's will would really just be another preference opposed to my own.

This assertion does not actually contain a justification. You've merely stated that God's morality is a subjective opinion, and thus, it can only be judged with respect to one's own moral standard. I.e., that God's morality must be judged according to the perceived consequences of following it.

If God's morality is not an opinion, then it is just a fact about what happens, and then it is either not a morality or irrelevant because there is no other possibility. If I can't possibly break the rules, and even if I did it would mean nothing other than a label (the rule has no consequence outside of simply being a rule,) then it is irrelevant.


It is an opinion, but it's objective. I don't understand what you mean by " then it is just a fact about what happens, and then it is either not a morality or irrelevant because there is no other possibility." Why couldn't we be out of sync with God's morality?

1. God wants whatever occurs. (Whatever occurs: X.)
2. I do X action. (God wants X.)
3. I'm "out of sync with God's morality." (God doesn't want X.)
4. Therefore, God wants want he doesn't want. (2 & 3.)
5. No action can contradict God's preference (morality).

If God's "decree" were in fact arbitrary, then I would agree.

What is arbitrary is the placement of his preference as over and above my own. What makes his preference a "morality" and mine only a preference?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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3/4/2015 4:40:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 8:21:42 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/3/2015 4:17:16 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

Before I formulate a proper reply, could you please answer the following questions:

Which god do you believe in?
How do you know he exists?
How do you know what his will is?
How do you know that what he calls good is truly good?

If you answer these questions we could have an interesting conversation on the subject of morals and god.

You don't believe in god that's fine. I don't care if you do. I have no use for society's pop culture ever changing moral compass or lack there of. It is pointless to answer the questions. You don't believe in god and no amount of dialog will ever change that. But your goal is to convince me god does not exist and put my hope in you (*MAN)

This is not the way to have a discussion, dear sir or madam. I am not asking you to stop believing in God, only to see what your reasoning is for taking such a position so that we can then have an argument.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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3/4/2015 5:16:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 11:44:50 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:49:07 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.

You have your source for what is moral and I have mine. My source never changes with public opinion or the passage of time.

Were some one interested in turning 'The Art of War' into a philosophy to live by, the same would also be true.

Didn't Lex Luthor do just that in Smallville?
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,234
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3/4/2015 6:30:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 5:16:10 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 2/27/2015 11:44:50 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:49:07 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:58:20 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/26/2015 6:35:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:43:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:10:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:01:15 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:41:29 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Hey, check out his debate, and vote on it, please. Also, we could start a pretty interesting conversation here utilizing many perspectives. Thank you!

http://www.debate.org...

Morality comes from the word of god and his domain. What is moral and isn't moral never changes no matter how much time passe or what new piece of technology is invented. Acceptance of social behaviors no matter how seemingly immoral,depraved, evil,cruel, oppressive,tyrannical or idiotic is mans domain. All human behavior can change from acceptable to unacceptable overnight in mans domain. Mans domain has no moral code that remains constant so it is impossible to know right from wrong but only what a majority of people will tolerate. In mans domain it isn't even wrong to break the law but only be agreeable to pay the price for breaking the law should you be caught.

If you could check out the debate, it would be great. My opponent argues that morality can exist only with God. I was against. Also, please read with an open mind.

I've been on this earth for fifty years. You will never make the case to me that man is capable of a consistent moral code. If there is one thing I have learned man thinks morality is subjective.

The word of god always remains the same.

I am assuming a Christian God for this, which, when stated 'the word of God always remains the same', I can't help but snicker, considering the first book of the Bible, and the interpretations of the New Testament, followed up by what people attribute to God now make for a horribly inconsistent entity, whose morality (unless you are calling it immorality) typifies the worst actions imaginable.

You have your source for what is moral and I have mine. My source never changes with public opinion or the passage of time.

Were some one interested in turning 'The Art of War' into a philosophy to live by, the same would also be true.

Didn't Lex Luthor do just that in Smallville?

Don't know, but that would me the morality is just as unchanging and 'good' as the Bible when reviewed as that source.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...