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what are good reasons of believing anything ?

ark200
Posts: 18
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4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

2. authority

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

4. private Revelation

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/8/2015 6:40:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

I think he meant "believing in something because it is tradition to do it". Believe something just because everyone have done it throughout years, is the same as believing it for no reason at all.

2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

But you do not believe something just because an authority on the field does it, do you? I believe something because the authority presents strong evidence to support his/her claims, so I believe because of evidence, not because the status of the person as an authority.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

I still think it is a terrible idea to believe in something just because everyone believes it. It is pretty much like the tradition case.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

I would rather go to the psychologist, but ok.

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.

I think there are two main good reasons to believe in something:

1-Believing because doing it gives self-gratification: this is the case in which it doesn't matter if your belief is true or not, you should believe it if it really makes you happy and/or helps you in any way. The possitive effects of this kind of belief are evidenced by the success of placebos in medicine.

2-Believing because the evidence presented is convincing enough for you: this one is of course the ideal scenario to believe in anything.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/8/2015 6:54:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 6:40:02 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

I'm being half facetious because of the simplistic nature of the original posting.

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

I think he meant "believing in something because it is tradition to do it". Believe something just because everyone have done it throughout years, is the same as believing it for no reason at all.

On the contrary, it is accepting the common wisdom that has prevailed. Changes in circumstances will inevitably result in changes to traditions.

2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

But you do not believe something just because an authority on the field does it, do you? I believe something because the authority presents strong evidence to support his/her claims, so I believe because of evidence, not because the status of the person as an authority.

I go to a doctor because he has specialized knowledge. People come to me because I have specialized knowledge. This knowledge does not guarantee correctness, but sometimes you have to trust others competency in their respective fields. It will not always be right, but at the same time it works more often than not.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

I still think it is a terrible idea to believe in something just because everyone believes it. It is pretty much like the tradition case.

The two are essentially one in the same. It is essentially a valid place to start from. That does not mean to never question, but it does use a larger group to provide consensus. Anything that works for a large number of people must have some level of truth to it, otherwise it would not work. The group will tend to accept new things that work and reject those that don't. As such it is not wholly without merit.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

I would rather go to the psychologist, but ok.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the chosen one...

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.

I think there are two main good reasons to believe in something:

1-Believing because doing it gives self-gratification: this is the case in which it doesn't matter if your belief is true or not, you should believe it if it really makes you happy and/or helps you in any way. The possitive effects of this kind of belief are evidenced by the success of placebos in medicine.

2-Believing because the evidence presented is convincing enough for you: this one is of course the ideal scenario to believe in anything.

There is ultimately only one reason to believe in anything. It is true. It is determining what is true that can be difficult...
Pase66
Posts: 775
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4/8/2015 8:22:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

2. authority

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

4. private Revelation

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

I personally think that private revelation is not a bad reason (I didn't say good). If God appeared to me, and said "Hello, I'm God, and I exist", I, as an agnostic, after considering all possibilities (and if I get more visions and/ or other revelations), I'm going to be a believer.

I also think comfort is a viable option (as long as it doesn't go against accepted fact and does not infringe on another's rights). If one wants to believe in God because its comforting, I see no reason in why they should not (given the parameters listed above).
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
ark200
Posts: 18
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4/9/2015 1:42:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 6:54:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 6:40:02 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:


I'm being half facetious because of the simplistic nature of the original posting.

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

I think he meant "believing in something because it is tradition to do it". Believe something just because everyone have done it throughout years, is the same as believing it for no reason at all.

On the contrary, it is accepting the common wisdom that has prevailed. Changes in circumstances will inevitably result in changes to traditions.


by tradition i mean that you believe in something because it is tradition. i do not mean common knowledge.
2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

But you do not believe something just because an authority on the field does it, do you? I believe something because the authority presents strong evidence to support his/her claims, so I believe because of evidence, not because the status of the person as an authority.

I go to a doctor because he has specialized knowledge. People come to me because I have specialized knowledge. This knowledge does not guarantee correctness, but sometimes you have to trust others competency in their respective fields. It will not always be right, but at the same time it works more often than not.


doctor with specialized knowledge can explain things to you in your lay tongue what actually happened to you. only then you believe in the doctor. else just don't believe because doctor said so.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

I still think it is a terrible idea to believe in something just because everyone believes it. It is pretty much like the tradition case.

The two are essentially one in the same. It is essentially a valid place to start from. That does not mean to never question, but it does use a larger group to provide consensus. Anything that works for a large number of people must have some level of truth to it, otherwise it would not work. The group will tend to accept new things that work and reject those that don't. As such it is not wholly without merit.


a large group once thought that sun revolves around the earth. that is not a place to start with.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

I would rather go to the psychologist, but ok.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the chosen one...


better examine your head georgy.
but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.

I think there are two main good reasons to believe in something:

1-Believing because doing it gives self-gratification: this is the case in which it doesn't matter if your belief is true or not, you should believe it if it really makes you happy and/or helps you in any way. The possitive effects of this kind of belief are evidenced by the success of placebos in medicine.

2-Believing because the evidence presented is convincing enough for you: this one is of course the ideal scenario to believe in anything.

There is ultimately only one reason to believe in anything. It is true. It is determining what is true that can be difficult...

but how to know what is true georgy?
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,155
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4/9/2015 6:34:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

2. authority

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

4. private Revelation

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

Private revelation is the only reason any person believes anything.
The truth is revealed to them, through their mind.

They have decided in their mind what constitutes 'a good reason'. That is Private revelation.
They have considered various reasons.
They decided which is 'good' and which is not, as it satisfies the qualities of 'good reason' to believe.

This other stuff I am reading is just begging the question - kicking the can down the road a few feet.
The truth is revealed to us by our favorite methods - it is not the same for all things.

When I want to decide what movie to spend my time watching, I depend heavily on crowd opinion, after I have filtered the choices down based on who participated in the production.

When I want to know how fast I can ride my motorcycle down the road, I rely heavily on the authority of law enforcement, tempered with my need for speed.

When I want to know what clothing to wear for my friend's wedding, tradition weighs heavily on my mind.

You show me a bad reason, and I'll show you someone who thinks it is a good reason, based on personal revelation.

When I ask myself 'What is the nature of Being?', I rely on the traditions of Zen masters, who are authorities on the subject, to show me why reason will not provide a Truthful answer.
Seeing into one's nature, one becomes a Buddha.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 6:37:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

What type am I?

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.

Sounds true enough.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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4/9/2015 6:43:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:38:06 AM, Wylted wrote:
A lot of people do value truth, but a better question to ask is; Is this belief useful to me?

An even better question is: Is it useful to believe that this belief is useful to me?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 6:56:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:43:07 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:38:06 AM, Wylted wrote:
A lot of people do value truth, but a better question to ask is; Is this belief useful to me?

An even better question is: Is it useful to believe that this belief is useful to me?

Mind blown
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/9/2015 11:23:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:37:01 AM, Wylted wrote:

What type am I?

Womanizing (formerly) witty irreverent atheist (some days) who has a heart of gold underneath it all. It is a surprisingly full category. Slip me a couple of good votes and I'll move you to the top of the list.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 11:34:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 11:23:48 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:37:01 AM, Wylted wrote:

What type am I?

Womanizing (formerly) witty irreverent atheist (some days) who has a heart of gold underneath it all. It is a surprisingly full category. Slip me a couple of good votes and I'll move you to the top of the list.

Too lazy, I'll just chill here.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/9/2015 11:52:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 11:34:33 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2015 11:23:48 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:37:01 AM, Wylted wrote:

What type am I?

Womanizing (formerly) witty irreverent atheist (some days) who has a heart of gold underneath it all. It is a surprisingly full category. Slip me a couple of good votes and I'll move you to the top of the list.

Too lazy, I'll just chill here.

You'll be sorry when the flood of RM, Stalins and Wolfes come...
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/9/2015 1:31:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 6:54:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 6:40:02 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/8/2015 12:37:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/8/2015 9:51:01 AM, ark200 wrote:
bad reasons of believing anything are 4:


I'm being half facetious because of the simplistic nature of the original posting.

1. tradition

Tradition can merely be a practice of accumulated knowledge that provides good reliable results. The question is why are you discarding the tradition.

I think he meant "believing in something because it is tradition to do it". Believe something just because everyone have done it throughout years, is the same as believing it for no reason at all.

On the contrary, it is accepting the common wisdom that has prevailed. Changes in circumstances will inevitably result in changes to traditions.

I believe changes in traditions start, precisely, by not believing things because it is tradition to do it.

2. authority

An authority is one with specific knowledge of a particular topic. One cannot necessarily research everything on everything. Thus we must rely on those with particular knowledge unless we have good reason to question it.

But you do not believe something just because an authority on the field does it, do you? I believe something because the authority presents strong evidence to support his/her claims, so I believe because of evidence, not because the status of the person as an authority.

I go to a doctor because he has specialized knowledge. People come to me because I have specialized knowledge. This knowledge does not guarantee correctness, but sometimes you have to trust others competency in their respective fields. It will not always be right, but at the same time it works more often than not.

Most times I go to the doctor just because he is the one able to legaly prescribe me something so I can buy it on the farmacy. As for the moments when I go because I have some weird illness, I only believe what the doctor says when it makes sense to me and when he can explain to me why he thinks one thing or another. If not, I go to another doctor. Everyone that has a university degree knows that doctors (or people that have degrees) are not even near of being infallible except for the common illness which you can identify yourself, like flu or measles.

3. general agreement: crowd opinion

The old axiom you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time is valid. This uses group knowledge to resolve issues and come to a consensus. While it may not always be correct it tends to be self rectifying over time.

I still think it is a terrible idea to believe in something just because everyone believes it. It is pretty much like the tradition case.

The two are essentially one in the same. It is essentially a valid place to start from. That does not mean to never question, but it does use a larger group to provide consensus. Anything that works for a large number of people must have some level of truth to it, otherwise it would not work.

But a lot of times people don't know if it works or not, but they simply believe it does. An example of this is avoiding black cats, which has clearly no effect, but a lot of people believe it does.

The group will tend to accept new things that work and reject those that don't. As such it is not wholly without merit.

That's an interesting topic. I don't agree because what you propose would be too scientific for regular people. Regular people won't be willing to reject a traditional idea for a new one, even if the new one works better, because rejecting the traditional idea excludes oneself from the group where you are integrated. In summary, regular people prefer to be popular than being smart.

4. private Revelation

If God comes to me and says, "Geogeer, I need you to build a DDO ark on which we will put two of every type of debater." You better darn well believe I'm going to do it!

I would rather go to the psychologist, but ok.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the chosen one...

but what are good reasons of believing anything? any idea?

If you stay on this site you'll soon believe that there are no good reasons to believe anything.

I think there are two main good reasons to believe in something:

1-Believing because doing it gives self-gratification: this is the case in which it doesn't matter if your belief is true or not, you should believe it if it really makes you happy and/or helps you in any way. The possitive effects of this kind of belief are evidenced by the success of placebos in medicine.

2-Believing because the evidence presented is convincing enough for you: this one is of course the ideal scenario to believe in anything.

There is ultimately only one reason to believe in anything. It is true. It is determining what is true that can be difficult...