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Nihilism=Immorality

Pase66
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4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?
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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. So, if one believes all values are superficial and are therefore arbitrarily determined, he, or she, has a very selfish view of value and its meaning. In other words, the standard for value is the self; and, since the self is in a constant state of change, value is dynamic, and not static, a dynamic relationship between an individual and his, or her, self. For this reason, the nihilist is very independent to the point of anarchy in his, or her, views of governance and exhibits an unstable and even anxious personality.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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4/14/2015 6:15:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. So, if one believes all values are superficial and are therefore arbitrarily determined, he, or she, has a very selfish view of value and its meaning. In other words, the standard for value is the self; and, since the self is in a constant state of change, value is dynamic, and not static, a dynamic relationship between an individual and his, or her, self. For this reason, the nihilist is very independent to the point of anarchy in his, or her, views of governance and exhibits an unstable and even anxious personality.

I should have phrased the question better. Specifically, Moral Nihilism.
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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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4/14/2015 7:06:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 6:15:48 AM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. So, if one believes all values are superficial and are therefore arbitrarily determined, he, or she, has a very selfish view of value and its meaning. In other words, the standard for value is the self; and, since the self is in a constant state of change, value is dynamic, and not static, a dynamic relationship between an individual and his, or her, self. For this reason, the nihilist is very independent to the point of anarchy in his, or her, views of governance and exhibits an unstable and even anxious personality.

I should have phrased the question better. Specifically, Moral Nihilism.

No. You phrased the question just right for the answer I gave you.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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4/14/2015 9:43:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 7:06:21 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/14/2015 6:15:48 AM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. So, if one believes all values are superficial and are therefore arbitrarily determined, he, or she, has a very selfish view of value and its meaning. In other words, the standard for value is the self; and, since the self is in a constant state of change, value is dynamic, and not static, a dynamic relationship between an individual and his, or her, self. For this reason, the nihilist is very independent to the point of anarchy in his, or her, views of governance and exhibits an unstable and even anxious personality.

I should have phrased the question better. Specifically, Moral Nihilism.

No. You phrased the question just right for the answer I gave you.

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Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/14/2015 9:52:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 7:06:21 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/14/2015 6:15:48 AM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. [...]

I should have phrased the question better. Specifically, Moral Nihilism.

No. You phrased the question just right for the answer I gave you.

Which is not correct.
There are many forms of nihilism, e.g., moral, mereological, existential, to name a few. When he is talking about nihilism and immorality he is of course referring to moral nihilism (the belief that there is no such thing as 'moral values'), not existential nihilism (the belief that life has no intrinsic value). They are not equivalent.
You can deny that killing is wrong on the basis that moral judgements are arbitrary and superficial and still live the happy life of a mass murderer.
You can deny that life has meaning and still act like a saint.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/14/2015 9:56:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

And to answer this question: No, it cannot.
If denying the existence of morality or moral values is the standard for immorality, acknowleging the existing of morality/moral values would in turn be considered moral, which makes no sense and gets you no where.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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4/14/2015 12:34:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Which is not correct.
There are many forms of nihilism, e.g., moral, mereological, existential, to name a few. When he is talking about nihilism and immorality he is of course referring to moral nihilism (the belief that there is no such thing as 'moral values'), not existential nihilism (the belief that life has no intrinsic value). They are not equivalent.
You can deny that killing is wrong on the basis that moral judgements are arbitrary and superficial and still live the happy life of a mass murderer.
You can deny that life has meaning and still act like a saint.

Moral nihilism does not deny the existence of morality; it states morality is not intrinsically determined or is not essential to the individual or society; in other words, to the moral nihilist, an amoral society is possible.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/14/2015 12:49:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 12:34:15 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Which is not correct.
There are many forms of nihilism, e.g., moral, mereological, existential, to name a few. When he is talking about nihilism and immorality he is of course referring to moral nihilism (the belief that there is no such thing as 'moral values'), not existential nihilism (the belief that life has no intrinsic value). They are not equivalent.
You can deny that killing is wrong on the basis that moral judgements are arbitrary and superficial and still live the happy life of a mass murderer.
You can deny that life has meaning and still act like a saint.

Moral nihilism does not deny the existence of morality; it states morality is not intrinsically determined or is not essential to the individual or society; in other words, to the moral nihilist, an amoral society is possible.

"Moral Nihilism = Nothing is morally wrong.

Moral nihilism here is not about what is semantically or metaphysically possible. It is just a substantive, negative, existential claim that there does not exist anything that is morally wrong." - http://plato.stanford.edu...

My point about the difference between moral and existential nihilism stands either way.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Pase66
Posts: 775
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4/14/2015 1:35:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 7:06:21 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/14/2015 6:15:48 AM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 2:41:14 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

Nihilism is the belief life has no intrinsic value. So, if one believes all values are superficial and are therefore arbitrarily determined, he, or she, has a very selfish view of value and its meaning. In other words, the standard for value is the self; and, since the self is in a constant state of change, value is dynamic, and not static, a dynamic relationship between an individual and his, or her, self. For this reason, the nihilist is very independent to the point of anarchy in his, or her, views of governance and exhibits an unstable and even anxious personality.

I should have phrased the question better. Specifically, Moral Nihilism.

No. You phrased the question just right for the answer I gave you.

moral nihilism meaning that to acknowledge that there is no good or bad morals is in itself a standard (emphasis on "a") for immorality.
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Pase66
Posts: 775
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4/14/2015 1:37:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 9:56:52 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

And to answer this question: No, it cannot.
If denying the existence of morality or moral values is the standard for immorality, acknowleging the existing of morality/moral values would in turn be considered moral, which makes no sense and gets you no where.

"A" standard for immorality. Just one standard. Not the only standard, but just one.
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It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
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Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/14/2015 1:43:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 1:37:22 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 9:56:52 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

And to answer this question: No, it cannot.
If denying the existence of morality or moral values is the standard for immorality, acknowleging the existing of morality/moral values would in turn be considered moral, which makes no sense and gets you no where.

"A" standard for immorality. Just one standard. Not the only standard, but just one.

Even having it as only one standard for what is wrong does not get you anywhere, it does not imply any specific actions that could be evaluated, it is simply the belief that there are no moral values. If you want to label a belief as immoral you would need to read someones mind to find out whether they sectretly hold this belief.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Pase66
Posts: 775
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4/14/2015 5:08:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 1:43:19 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/14/2015 1:37:22 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 9:56:52 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

And to answer this question: No, it cannot.
If denying the existence of morality or moral values is the standard for immorality, acknowleging the existing of morality/moral values would in turn be considered moral, which makes no sense and gets you no where.

"A" standard for immorality. Just one standard. Not the only standard, but just one.

Even having it as only one standard for what is wrong does not get you anywhere, it does not imply any specific actions that could be evaluated, it is simply the belief that there are no moral values. If you want to label a belief as immoral you would need to read someones mind to find out whether they sectretly hold this belief.

For me, its not mean to imply any specific actions. In actuality, it deals with the problem of moral relativity. It is "immoral" to categorize charity and rape as being the same morally. Again, morality is a vast and complex topic, and to try to get an objective code secular-ly is no easy task. That's why this is there as a counter to moral relativism.
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It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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4/14/2015 9:36:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Moral Nihilism = Nothing is morally wrong.

Moral nihilism here is not about what is semantically or metaphysically possible. It is just a substantive, negative, existential claim that there does not exist anything that is morally wrong." - http://plato.stanford.edu......

My point about the difference between moral and existential nihilism stands either way.
#12Report PostReply & QuoteAdd Post

Pase66

I think you're confusing the terms: "to believe in" and "to believe in its existence". For instance, I may say, "I don't believe in Christian morality," but to say, "I don't believe in the existence of Christian morality" is something entirely different. A nihilist may say he, or she, does not believe in morality but to say morality does not exist is a denial of reality. For instance, the Christian moral code has a tremendous effect on the creation of our laws. In the United States, the issues of gay marriage and abortion are very hot topics. Why? Because, the Christian Church in America has (and still does) instituted its moral code into law. Whether I believe in Christianity or not does not negate its consequence on my life. Morality is very real. It's as real as the traditional and legal infrastructures of this and many other countries.

Now, to say morality is essential to the formation of any society is an entirely different debate.
s-anthony
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4/14/2015 9:55:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
moral nihilism meaning that to acknowledge that there is no good or bad morals is in itself a standard (emphasis on "a") for immorality.

To say moral nihilists do not believe in the existence of morality is like saying they don't believe in the existence of religious or secular laws. The moral nihilist believes in the existence of morality just as he, or she, believes in the existence of laws.

Whether or not the nihilist agrees with those laws or mores is something entirely different.

One thing I do know is moral nihilism teaches morality is not intrinsic to the individual or his, or her, collective.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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4/14/2015 10:07:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

To try an establish a standard within nihilism seems in itself antithetical to nihilism. Nihilism recognizes that no two lives are the same, we all live under constantly changing circumstances, so established rules may not apply to everyone under every scenario.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/15/2015 8:25:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/14/2015 5:08:40 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 1:43:19 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/14/2015 1:37:22 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 4/14/2015 9:56:52 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:15:03 PM, Pase66 wrote:
This is just a thought, but could Nihilism be considered as a standard for immorality, or "bad", so a standard can be established?

And to answer this question: No, it cannot.
If denying the existence of morality or moral values is the standard for immorality, acknowleging the existing of morality/moral values would in turn be considered moral, which makes no sense and gets you no where.

"A" standard for immorality. Just one standard. Not the only standard, but just one.

Even having it as only one standard for what is wrong does not get you anywhere, it does not imply any specific actions that could be evaluated, it is simply the belief that there are no moral values. If you want to label a belief as immoral you would need to read someones mind to find out whether they sectretly hold this belief.

For me, its not mean to imply any specific actions. In actuality, it deals with the problem of moral relativity. It is "immoral" to categorize charity and rape as being the same morally. Again, morality is a vast and complex topic, and to try to get an objective code secular-ly is no easy task. That's why this is there as a counter to moral relativism.

Moral relativism != Moral nihilism
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic