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Rape vs Murder

Saint_of_Me
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5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.
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ben2974
Posts: 767
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5/19/2015 11:47:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

This is news to me. Society makes it seem that rape is the next worst thing that could ever happen to someone, if not as bad as murder. I don't know if i'll ever ask a woman if she has fantasized about rape. Do you have any sources for this by the way?
Not that I condone rape of any kind - ever -, but I always felt that society's response to rape is overblown.
lannan13
Posts: 23,106
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5/19/2015 11:57:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Probably murder, because you're taking someone's life while rape you're just trespassing inside of someone else for your own pleasure.
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Saint_of_Me
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5/19/2015 12:04:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:47:10 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

This is news to me. Society makes it seem that rape is the next worst thing that could ever happen to someone, if not as bad as murder. I don't know if i'll ever ask a woman if she has fantasized about rape. Do you have any sources for this by the way?
Not that I condone rape of any kind - ever -, but I always felt that society's response to rape is overblown.

I was hoping somebody would ask for sources on this.

I have dozens if you wish.

Here is just one.....

https://www.psychologytoday.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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5/19/2015 12:13:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here's another.

I would love for some women to respond to or deny this, BTW.............

http://www.care2.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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5/19/2015 12:31:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:47:10 AM, ben2974 wrote:
This is news to me. Society makes it seem that rape is the next worst thing that could ever happen to someone, if not as bad as murder. I don't know if i'll ever ask a woman if she has fantasized about rape. Do you have any sources for this by the way?
Not that I condone rape of any kind - ever -, but I always felt that society's response to rape is overblown.

have you ever heard of the book "50 shades of grey" in book 3 the submissive is actually raped by the dominant, christian grey. even though the writing is horrid (youtube search "celebrities reading shades of grey") it is still a best seller

another example is "playing hard to get" if a woman is looking for a man that doesn't take no for an answer then she is looking for a potential rapist

under california's yes means yes law, you have to get verbal consent to kiss, another verbal consent to touch, another verbal consent to fondle, another verbal consent to grope, another verbal consent to have oral sex, another verbal consent to have sex, and verbal consent to do anything else. HERE COMES THE BEST PART, it is up to the man to prove she said yes to all, or she can claim he still raped her. so if you don't bring a lawyer and a video camera on the date, then you may be a rapist by default.

WARNING: following video does contain a rape scene
https://www.youtube.com...
Saint_of_Me
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5/19/2015 12:51:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The sky is blue.

Ice cream makes you fat.

Women have secrets. And one of them is that most of them have fantasized about rape many times in their lives.

Here's yet another link for ya.......

http://thoughtcatalog.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/19/2015 1:26:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

^loser with a rape fantasy
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Saint_of_Me
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5/19/2015 1:41:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 1:26:54 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

^loser with a rape fantasy

^^^ Idiot with a reading comprehension program.

It is not MY fantasies those links were speaking of--written by women, btw. But rather, those of women. Or did you even read them?

Perhaps you should stay off this thread unless you have something useful to contribute?

Just an idea, pops.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
ben2974
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5/19/2015 1:49:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 12:51:45 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
The sky is blue.

Ice cream makes you fat.

Women have secrets. And one of them is that most of them have fantasized about rape many times in their lives.

Here's yet another link for ya.......

http://thoughtcatalog.com...

Sounds like you really wanted to confront someone about rape culture haha. What are your views on rape fantasy and reality, then? Do you find the two dilemmas at odds with each other, creating the inevitable and everlasting phenomena that is patriarchy?
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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5/20/2015 9:58:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

It really depends. If we don't count cases where both are done (since there are a plenty of those cases), I think the average rape is worse than the average murder. At least there is often a reason behind the *average* murder (insanity, unfaithful spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend, being owed a lot of money, revenge...) whereas there can be nothing to justify rape. Plus, at least the murdered won't be traumatised for the rest of his/her life. I also think murder is just one wrong, while rape is two wrongs rolled into one - it's at once violence and sexual misconduct.

Of course, somebody who shoots up 30 kids in a school is worse than someone who rapes a single woman... but I'm talking about averages.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

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ben2974
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5/20/2015 10:18:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2015 9:58:58 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

It really depends. If we don't count cases where both are done (since there are a plenty of those cases), I think the average rape is worse than the average murder. At least there is often a reason behind the *average* murder (insanity, unfaithful spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend, being owed a lot of money, revenge...) whereas there can be nothing to justify rape. Plus, at least the murdered won't be traumatised for the rest of his/her life. I also think murder is just one wrong, while rape is two wrongs rolled into one - it's at once violence and sexual misconduct.

Of course, somebody who shoots up 30 kids in a school is worse than someone who rapes a single woman... but I'm talking about averages.

I highly disagree on your main point. Why can murder be justified and not rape? Rape is just as easily "justifiable" as murder is, if not much more so. Honestly I think murder is NEVER justified. It is a sin that cannot be rectified on behalf of the victim.
Also, if you took the opportunity to scroll through this thread, there's been discussion on the nature of rape and its fantastical "properties." lol
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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5/21/2015 10:22:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2015 10:18:28 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 5/20/2015 9:58:58 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

It really depends. If we don't count cases where both are done (since there are a plenty of those cases), I think the average rape is worse than the average murder. At least there is often a reason behind the *average* murder (insanity, unfaithful spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend, being owed a lot of money, revenge...) whereas there can be nothing to justify rape. Plus, at least the murdered won't be traumatised for the rest of his/her life. I also think murder is just one wrong, while rape is two wrongs rolled into one - it's at once violence and sexual misconduct.

Of course, somebody who shoots up 30 kids in a school is worse than someone who rapes a single woman... but I'm talking about averages.

I highly disagree on your main point. Why can murder be justified and not rape? Rape is just as easily "justifiable" as murder is, if not much more so. Honestly I think murder is NEVER justified. It is a sin that cannot be rectified on behalf of the victim.
Okay, I guess I used the wrong word. How about... there is an understandable (though not justifiable) reason behind most murders?
Also, if you took the opportunity to scroll through this thread, there's been discussion on the nature of rape and its fantastical "properties." lol
That is, IMHO, victim blaming.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
Saint_of_Me
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5/26/2015 1:31:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2015 3:03:38 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
How are the circumstances weighted? We can have a clean kill or a torture kill vs gang rape.

Oh...women fantasize about gang rape as well!

This whole OP is a no-brainer, folks. Murder is far and away more reprehensible than rape. (Which, half the time, is not even rape.) How come so many women orgasm during rape?

http://www.avoiceformen.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
slo1
Posts: 4,361
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5/26/2015 2:09:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

Sounds like something a rapist would write. Fantasy does not = reality. It could be possible to have a rape fantasy that does not have a constraint of control and the feelings which can be arise when out of control versus when actual even of rape the loss of control is real thus terrifying.

Please provide some evidence that actual rapes are not traumatic and are instead a guilt driven event due to obtaining orgasm.
slo1
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5/26/2015 2:17:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

From a financial aspect the loss of earnings has a much higher economic potential. It also impacts many more people who lose a loved one. Rape can have a higher emotional toll to the victim and can greatly reduce quality of life if not able to adapt well to life after the event. That impact on quality of live would generally be limited in the victim and maybe very close family.

If not getting into actual impact from the events, since both would morally be considered a grave violation of another's rights they would be equally morally wrong. If add up tangible effects of the crime, murder gets the more severe punishment.
Saint_of_Me
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5/26/2015 2:32:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/26/2015 2:09:06 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

Sounds like something a rapist would write. Fantasy does not = reality. It could be possible to have a rape fantasy that does not have a constraint of control and the feelings which can be arise when out of control versus when actual even of rape the loss of control is real thus terrifying.

Please provide some evidence that actual rapes are not traumatic and are instead a guilt driven event due to obtaining orgasm.

OK.

http://www.pandys.org...
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Saint_of_Me
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5/26/2015 2:34:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Women fantasize about rape all the time..then they cum when it happens.

Here is more. I can post dozens more if you wish.

http://www.care2.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
slo1
Posts: 4,361
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5/26/2015 3:03:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/26/2015 2:32:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/26/2015 2:09:06 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

Sounds like something a rapist would write. Fantasy does not = reality. It could be possible to have a rape fantasy that does not have a constraint of control and the feelings which can be arise when out of control versus when actual even of rape the loss of control is real thus terrifying.

Please provide some evidence that actual rapes are not traumatic and are instead a guilt driven event due to obtaining orgasm.

OK.


http://www.pandys.org...

Here is the fundamental problem with what you wrote and why it sounds like you are a wanna be rapist.

You claim that the emotional turmoil of rape in many cases is not due to the trauma but rather the guilt of being sexual aroused in the event. There is an inference in there that continues to suggest if the victim is able to overcome guilt and just go with it and enjoy the arousal, no harm done because there is no trauma.

In reality the guilt a woman may feel due to being aroused during a rape is one that centers from a lack of control. This is obviously more common in situations of martial rape where violence or threat of bodily harm is not present. In those cases a woman may not even physically fight back because there is full time relationship happening which brings many complications thus an appearance of consent when there really is none.

Regardless, sexual arousal of the victim is irrelevant to the perpetrator. Just because a woman may get sexually aroused it does not mean that it was welcomed with the exception of some guilt on the victims part. If it is not consensual it is traumatic because of the lack of control.
Saint_of_Me
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5/27/2015 11:44:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
LOL.....nice try.

So..I am gonna paraphrase what you just said about it being irrelevant if a woman fantasizes and enjoys rape.

You said.......".Regardless, sexual arousal of the victim is irrelevant to the perpetrator. Just because a woman may get sexually aroused it does not mean that it was welcomed with the exception of some guilt on the victims part. If it is not consensual it is traumatic because of the lack of control."

Now...I am a defense lawyer. My client is accused of murder. I address the jury and say....."The homicidal rage my client underwent during the murder is irrelevant. Just becasue he was aroused violently does not mean that it was not deserved by the victim. The victim was asking to be killed; it was consensual, therefore NOT traumatic because of lack of control."

Absurd, right? Just like your argument.

I find it strange no women are denying my claims on rape fantasies and arousal during such acts.

Here's more. (Jeez..how many links have I posted so far? LOL)........

https://www.psychologytoday.com...
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Saint_of_Me
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5/27/2015 2:28:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Nothin' like first-hand testimony to assist one in making his argument more compelling, eh?

LOL.

https://www.reddit.com...
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stijnbruers
Posts: 4
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5/29/2015 5:26:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:09:00 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

Murder. By far.

Many women fantasize about rape, although they are loathe to admit it.

In fact, a good deal of the emotional turmoil that women SOMETIMES go through after an alleged rape is not because of what they claim was a traumatic experience, but rather because they orgasmed and thus feel guilty.

Ask any woman if she ever fantasized about being raped. Make sure she is honest. See what you find out. You will be surprised. Not their fault mind you: hardwired in their DNA from back in our hunter-gatherer days when the Alpha male of the pack would take his chosen mate by force sometimes. It was sort of an honor for the woman.

I often fantasize about being attacked by dangerous criminals. Of course I always survive and win the fight. But that doesn't mean that being attacked in real life is less bad than something else.
stijnbruers
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5/29/2015 5:29:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

I guess murder, because if I had to choose between being murdered or being raped, I would choose the latter. We can ask other people what they prefer in that dilemma, and if the majority prefers being raped, then rape is less bad than murder.
Saint_of_Me
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5/29/2015 11:34:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 5:29:22 AM, stijnbruers wrote:
At 5/19/2015 10:05:00 AM, ben2974 wrote:
Which is more morally reprehensible?

I guess murder, because if I had to choose between being murdered or being raped, I would choose the latter. We can ask other people what they prefer in that dilemma, and if the majority prefers being raped, then rape is less bad than murder.

I find that an odd dream for somebody who is too insecure to even list their gender on their profile.

Or maybe not.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.