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Are we too harsh on drug addicts?

Saint_of_Me
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6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,175
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6/13/2015 3:28:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"A drug addiction, a distinct concept from substance dependence, is defined as compulsive, out-of-control drug use, despite negative consequences."

So if coke is in your cough syrup, as it once was, and you only take it 'medicinally', and it causes no problems, then no addiction. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, comes to mind.

If cannabis is legal, as it once was, and readily available, and only used in appropriate settings, and causes no family, work, or legal issues, no addiction.

If the doctor prescribes mother's little helpers, and are only taken daily, as directed, no addiction.

No compulsive, out of control usage, and negative consequences, and no drug addiction (problem)?
It seems this is the way it is.

As drug laws in the Netherlands have been relaxed,, drug addiction and related problems have been declining.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org...

The drug problem in the USA is with alcohol, and prescription pills.
And yet, these users are not the ones clogging the prisons.

Drug laws have caused most of the problems.
The old standby argument against cannabis has always been - 'Well, you know it is illegal.'

I know what has not worked.
We have been at the same game for nearly 100 years, and not an inch of progress.
A new game plan is needed.
You know where the problem is....Follow the money.

Like so many social problems, we are in it so deep, it seems there is no way out.
Yet, there always is, with planning and patience.

From what I see we are at a crossroads, nationally and globally.
It is time to change the game plan.

A good place to start is at the bottom.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/13/2015 8:49:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Absolutely we are, the system is broken and beyond repair.

First of all, we spend billions on a war on drugs and not a penny of that goes towards helping an addict detox or rehabilitate. If an addict wants to quit, and they don"t have a lot of money, and drug addicts never have a lot of money, they are certainly going to get no help from those billions we spend on the so called war on drugs. It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on drug users, they are the enemy, and we created an army whose livelihood is dependent on the drug problem. Those billions create jobs and fund resources that have developed into a vast self-perpetuating complex that is hungry for the money, the last thing that beast wants is to see this war end, there is too much at stake, the system is designed to perpetuate the war on drug users.

Its a proud system that measures its success in terms of the number of enemy captured, consequently this country has the largest percentage of its population incarcerated of any country in the world, and it's all because of a war we are waging against our own people.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/13/2015 9:04:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 8:49:45 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Absolutely we are, the system is broken and beyond repair.

First of all, we spend billions on a war on drugs and not a penny of that goes towards helping an addict detox or rehabilitate. If an addict wants to quit, and they don"t have a lot of money, and drug addicts never have a lot of money, they are certainly going to get no help from those billions we spend on the so called war on drugs. It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on drug users, they are the enemy, and we created an army whose livelihood is dependent on the drug problem. Those billions create jobs and fund resources that have developed into a vast self-perpetuating complex that is hungry for the money, the last thing that beast wants is to see this war end, there is too much at stake, the system is designed to perpetuate the war on drug users.

Its a proud system that measures its success in terms of the number of enemy captured, consequently this country has the largest percentage of its population incarcerated of any country in the world, and it's all because of a war we are waging against our own people.

Well, even though I asked respondents to steer clear of the legal and law enforcement issues surrounding drug use, and instead concentrate on the philosophical facet of one's right to alter their own minds--thanks for your post anyway.

I am against legalizing drugs, BTW. As I said in my OP. Except maybe for pot.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/13/2015 9:12:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 3:28:33 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
"A drug addiction, a distinct concept from substance dependence, is defined as compulsive, out-of-control drug use, despite negative consequences."

So if coke is in your cough syrup, as it once was, and you only take it 'medicinally', and it causes no problems, then no addiction. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, comes to mind.

If cannabis is legal, as it once was, and readily available, and only used in appropriate settings, and causes no family, work, or legal issues, no addiction.

If the doctor prescribes mother's little helpers, and are only taken daily, as directed, no addiction.

No compulsive, out of control usage, and negative consequences, and no drug addiction (problem)?
It seems this is the way it is.


As drug laws in the Netherlands have been relaxed,, drug addiction and related problems have been declining.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org...

The drug problem in the USA is with alcohol, and prescription pills.
And yet, these users are not the ones clogging the prisons.

Drug laws have caused most of the problems.
The old standby argument against cannabis has always been - 'Well, you know it is illegal.'


I know what has not worked.
We have been at the same game for nearly 100 years, and not an inch of progress.
A new game plan is needed.
You know where the problem is....Follow the money.

Like so many social problems, we are in it so deep, it seems there is no way out.
Yet, there always is, with planning and patience.

From what I see we are at a crossroads, nationally and globally.
It is time to change the game plan.

A good place to start is at the bottom.

Great post with some nice links--thanks!

Interesting about what you said concerning the real problems being Rx meds and booze. I agree. Funny thing: here at the VA I see as many drug addicts in a week as would a cop working in any USA crime-ridden inner city. LOL.

The VA sure do lover her drugs..er,, I mean "meds." You wouldn't believe how many vets are opiate addicts from Rx opiate analgesics. And these guys even act like junkies. It is almost an every day occurrence to see one of them go off on a doc who fails to renew their "script. Or cancels it because he sees addiction problems and/or doubts the veracity of their pain level claims. VA police are often called.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Sidewalker
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6/13/2015 9:20:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 9:04:28 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/13/2015 8:49:45 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Absolutely we are, the system is broken and beyond repair.

First of all, we spend billions on a war on drugs and not a penny of that goes towards helping an addict detox or rehabilitate. If an addict wants to quit, and they don"t have a lot of money, and drug addicts never have a lot of money, they are certainly going to get no help from those billions we spend on the so called war on drugs. It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on drug users, they are the enemy, and we created an army whose livelihood is dependent on the drug problem. Those billions create jobs and fund resources that have developed into a vast self-perpetuating complex that is hungry for the money, the last thing that beast wants is to see this war end, there is too much at stake, the system is designed to perpetuate the war on drug users.

Its a proud system that measures its success in terms of the number of enemy captured, consequently this country has the largest percentage of its population incarcerated of any country in the world, and it's all because of a war we are waging against our own people.

Well, even though I asked respondents to steer clear of the legal and law enforcement issues surrounding drug use, and instead concentrate on the philosophical facet of one's right to alter their own minds--thanks for your post anyway.

The legal and law enforcement issues constitute the problem, drug use is a victimless crime, addiction is a disease and we need to treat it, instead we exacerbate the problem. Drug addicts only victimize themselves, but the legal and law enforcement complex feeds off of them like a leech.

I am against legalizing drugs, BTW. As I said in my OP. Except maybe for pot.

Same here.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/14/2015 2:16:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Speaking as an ex drug user, not nearly harsh enough.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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6/14/2015 2:39:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

No scientific research on optimal, or at least successful methods of rehabilitation from drug addiction? Just form a treatment based on opinion and implement it?
Vox_Veritas
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6/14/2015 2:48:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:39:11 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

No scientific research on optimal, or at least successful methods of rehabilitation from drug addiction? Just form a treatment based on opinion and implement it?

Cold Turkey for five years isn't a successful method of getting people off drugs?
(Oh, and they could be subjected constantly for 10-20 years afterwards to a health monitor which would alert the authorities if they took drugs, and someone would be assigned to keep an eye on them).
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
UndeniableReality
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6/14/2015 3:31:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:48:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:39:11 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

No scientific research on optimal, or at least successful methods of rehabilitation from drug addiction? Just form a treatment based on opinion and implement it?

Cold Turkey for five years isn't a successful method of getting people off drugs?
(Oh, and they could be subjected constantly for 10-20 years afterwards to a health monitor which would alert the authorities if they took drugs, and someone would be assigned to keep an eye on them).

I don't believe I implied anything about the success or failure of your proposed method. I asked a question about how the proposed method was devised.
ironslippers
Posts: 511
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6/15/2015 8:11:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ironically No one is an addict until they say they are, it matters not of your perception of them. One man may drink himself into unemployment, homelessness and death unless he embraces the relationship between his drinking and his losses, he is not an addict. Another person may spend a summer in the land of excessive partying and have concern to make life changes as an addict. Luckily WE are comprised of many people with different experiences and references. One might be empathetic and another might express contempt for "the addict". "Yes you're worthless for jacking your life up" & "Yes you're worthy, jacking up your life it is part of being human" both lines of thought are true.
Considering the complexity, generally we are fair to drug addicts.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/15/2015 8:55:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

What does "extreme cold turkey treatment" even mean? Those are nice words and all, they sound right, but how is something like that implemented? Most importantly, where does the money comes from for a five year program?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/15/2015 10:01:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Drug addicts should be forced to do lawn maintenance. You know, jobs regular Americans don't want to do. You can use the money they earn to live in a camp and feed them bologna sandwiches like Sheriff Joe Arpio does in Arizona. It's either that or quit drugs. It's your choice. No body made you take drugs and nobody can make you stop. But if you become a criminal and financial burden on society it's of to bologna camp for you.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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6/15/2015 10:07:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:48:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:39:11 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

No scientific research on optimal, or at least successful methods of rehabilitation from drug addiction? Just form a treatment based on opinion and implement it?

Cold Turkey for five years isn't a successful method of getting people off drugs?
(Oh, and they could be subjected constantly for 10-20 years afterwards to a health monitor which would alert the authorities if they took drugs, and someone would be assigned to keep an eye on them).

ROFLMAO Mr. Small Government.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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6/15/2015 10:15:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:07:56 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:48:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:39:11 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:32:29 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/13/2015 1:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I work for the VA in the Mental Health Department.

So dealing with veterans with substance abuse issues is a significant part of our jobs.

I have always been pretty much anti-drug. Oh...I was a big drinkker before I quit a couple years ago. I would even go so far to say I was a problem drinker. Some who knew me would probably think I was an alcoholic.

Drugs? Not so much. Being a track guy in school and then being in the military where my NEC demanded a "Secret" clearance, I always steered clear. Smoked a little dope in my youth,,maybe 5-6 times all told--but that's about it.

But, being a psych major and a huge student of all things dealing with the human mind, i.e. it's nature; how it works; it's shortcomings and aberrations, I have been thinking about chemically-altering our brains.

As we all know, our emotions and fears and character flaws and even our core personality are driven by those chemicals floating around in our brains. We call 'em neurotransmitters. There are dozens of them. And some of your brain cells--specifically the axons and the dendrites, fire them back and forth every second.

Too much or too little of any given chemical can alter how you feel and think. Or cause mental illness of many sorts. Everything from mild anxiety to depression to full-on schizophrenia or bipolar disorder--what we used to call manic depression.

(there are environmental factors in the mix as well--but I am gonna leave that part of it alone for this thread.)

So....is it really wrong for a person to self-medicate themselves in order to feel how they want to feel? AS long is--and this is a big caveat--they do nobody else harm? Or are not a burden on society?

I am speaking not about the legal issues. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs--except for pot maybe. But rather: the big picture, philosophical issue. You only go around once in life so why not live it feeling how you want to? If you find your substance-free life to be less desirable? (For you believers in God: would He really care? Again, so long as no harm is done. And you live a good and kind and productive life?

I am not speaking about prescription drugs. Say, Xanax or other benzos for anxiety, or Zoloft for Depression. That is a no-brainer in my opinion. Some people NEED those meds.

But what about the dude who goes to work everyday and is a good husband but snorts coke because it makes him feel better? Or takes a few Oxycontins to get thru the day?

Thought? Questions? Criticisms of this idea?

Thanks!

Drug Addicts should be rehabilitated, in my opinion. Extreme cold turkey treatment accompanied by hard work to raise/maintain work ethic in an effort that lasts 5 years.

No scientific research on optimal, or at least successful methods of rehabilitation from drug addiction? Just form a treatment based on opinion and implement it?

Cold Turkey for five years isn't a successful method of getting people off drugs?
(Oh, and they could be subjected constantly for 10-20 years afterwards to a health monitor which would alert the authorities if they took drugs, and someone would be assigned to keep an eye on them).

ROFLMAO Mr. Small Government.

Yeah, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of Libertarianism.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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6/16/2015 8:04:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." -- Abraham Lincoln
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater