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Why Does Evil Walk Among Us?

Saint_of_Me
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6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.
You can call me Mark if you like.
Toviyah
Posts: 88
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6/24/2015 4:13:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew
It's funny - when i've been taught Criminology as sociology, I was told to disregard criminal psychology (for the most part at least), as criminal behaviour is always a social construction. I suppose that evil wouldn't then be a separate 'thing' nor an internal 'thing' but rather a mix, an internal reaction to others' actions.

My own view is probably similar - a mix between original sin in our soul and evil forces manipulating our nature. But with an emphasis on the former.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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6/24/2015 4:16:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.

Yes. I just used an anglerfish as an example. The fish may likely seem evil to some people because of its menacing appearance.

Ramirez looks possessed to you. That doesn't mean he is, unless you can prove he is...
You can call me Mark if you like.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/24/2015 4:19:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:13:15 PM, Toviyah wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew
It's funny - when i've been taught Criminology as sociology, I was told to disregard criminal psychology (for the most part at least), as criminal behaviour is always a social construction. I suppose that evil wouldn't then be a separate 'thing' nor an internal 'thing' but rather a mix, an internal reaction to others' actions.

My own view is probably similar - a mix between original sin in our soul and evil forces manipulating our nature. But with an emphasis on the former.

thanks for you post.

I tend to agree with you, but me personally: I think I would go with "an emphasis on the latter."

I have toyed with the idea of their being certain frequencies out there. See, among all the thousands that we know about and can detect could be s few we do not know about. Nor can detect yet. Perhaps "good" and "evil" are two types of these? So, certain peoples, in accordance to their mindset, would provide the right type of "receiver" for those "transmissions."

I like that idea because it incorporates both science AND metaphysics.

Drew.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/24/2015 4:21:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:16:13 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.

Yes. I just used an anglerfish as an example. The fish may likely seem evil to some people because of its menacing appearance.

Ramirez looks possessed to you. That doesn't mean he is, unless you can prove he is...

Yes--he does look possessed to me. And I think if you had the balls to admit it you would say he does to you, as well.

No..I cannot prove he is possessed by Evil.

Kinda like the same way you cannot prove his is not.

thanks.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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6/24/2015 4:23:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:21:05 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:16:13 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.

Yes. I just used an anglerfish as an example. The fish may likely seem evil to some people because of its menacing appearance.

Ramirez looks possessed to you. That doesn't mean he is, unless you can prove he is...

Yes--he does look possessed to me. And I think if you had the balls to admit it you would say he does to you, as well.

If I "had the balls"? Are you suggesting you know that I'm afraid of saying it? Can you see into my mind?

What if he just doesn't look possessed to me?

No..I cannot prove he is possessed by Evil.

Good. Can you prove evil's objectivity in the first place?

Kinda like the same way you cannot prove his is not.

Sure. I can just point out that, because there's no evidence for his "possession", there's no point in believing he's possessed.

thanks.

Noooooooo problemo.
You can call me Mark if you like.
Saint_of_Me
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6/24/2015 4:27:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:23:36 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:21:05 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:16:13 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.

Yes. I just used an anglerfish as an example. The fish may likely seem evil to some people because of its menacing appearance.

Ramirez looks possessed to you. That doesn't mean he is, unless you can prove he is...

Yes--he does look possessed to me. And I think if you had the balls to admit it you would say he does to you, as well.

If I "had the balls"? Are you suggesting you know that I'm afraid of saying it? Can you see into my mind?

What if he just doesn't look possessed to me?

No..I cannot prove he is possessed by Evil.

Good. Can you prove evil's objectivity in the first place?

Kinda like the same way you cannot prove his is not.

Sure. I can just point out that, because there's no evidence for his "possession", there's no point in believing he's possessed.

thanks.

Noooooooo problemo.

Apparently logic is a problem for you.

Si...tu tiene un problema con logica!

Do you really think that something cannot exist even if there is no accessible proof?

OK.

Prove to me right now that you are not insane.

LOL.

Thanks.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
debate_power
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6/24/2015 4:34:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:27:46 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:23:36 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:21:05 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:16:13 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:14:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

Uhh..last time I checked an anglefish is NOT human. Ramirez is supposed to be. Yet..his eyes belie that fact--as if he were possessed.

Yes. I just used an anglerfish as an example. The fish may likely seem evil to some people because of its menacing appearance.

Ramirez looks possessed to you. That doesn't mean he is, unless you can prove he is...

Yes--he does look possessed to me. And I think if you had the balls to admit it you would say he does to you, as well.

If I "had the balls"? Are you suggesting you know that I'm afraid of saying it? Can you see into my mind?

What if he just doesn't look possessed to me?

No..I cannot prove he is possessed by Evil.

Good. Can you prove evil's objectivity in the first place?

Kinda like the same way you cannot prove his is not.

Sure. I can just point out that, because there's no evidence for his "possession", there's no point in believing he's possessed.

thanks.

Noooooooo problemo.

Apparently logic is a problem for you.

No it's not, actually...

Si...tu tiene un problema con logica!


Do you really think that something cannot exist even if there is no accessible proof?

I do think something can exist even if there is no accessible proof. I'm just saying that the logical thing is to not believe in it if there is no evidence in its favor. That's how weak atheism works. If a claim has no backing, the logical thing to do is to dismiss it unless it has backing.

You misunderstood me.

OK.

OK.

Prove to me right now that you are not insane.

Diddly dum de doo. Let's skip to the loo! Gotta get wet to get dry! HAHAHAHAHA!

LOL.

Smite is better.

Thanks.

Noooooo problemo.
You can call me Mark if you like.
janesix
Posts: 3,438
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6/24/2015 6:44:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When I was psychotic, my voices told me we all posses some evil and some good, with varying amounts in different people. There was about 1/4 evil and the rest was good, because evil is stronger and needs lots of good to counter balance it. I of course don't believe this when I'm feeling normal, but sometimes I still wonder when I see the atrocities in the world.
xXCryptoXx
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6/24/2015 7:15:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is not a separate entity, rather it is a perversion of the ultimate good: God. Hence, Satan is evil insofar as he has chosen to rebel against God and thus lacks God's goodness. It is kind of like how darkness isn't an entity in of itself, but rather the lack of light.
Nolite Timere
Saint_of_Me
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6/24/2015 8:12:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 7:15:56 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is not a separate entity, rather it is a perversion of the ultimate good: God. Hence, Satan is evil insofar as he has chosen to rebel against God and thus lacks God's goodness. It is kind of like how darkness isn't an entity in of itself, but rather the lack of light.

So, if yo believe in Satan, you do not think that He has power over some people? With a quick look at the state of the world today, I believe it would be difficult for someone who believes in Him to deny he is wielding some power. Thus, if he were, then Evil would be a separate entity, that is, emanating from outside of the human mind.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
xXCryptoXx
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6/24/2015 8:34:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 8:12:49 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 7:15:56 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is not a separate entity, rather it is a perversion of the ultimate good: God. Hence, Satan is evil insofar as he has chosen to rebel against God and thus lacks God's goodness. It is kind of like how darkness isn't an entity in of itself, but rather the lack of light.

So, if yo believe in Satan, you do not think that He has power over some people? With a quick look at the state of the world today, I believe it would be difficult for someone who believes in Him to deny he is wielding some power. Thus, if he were, then Evil would be a separate entity, that is, emanating from outside of the human mind.

Evil is a state of being in which something is deprived of its perfection. So it is false to say evil is an entity in the way that saying "beauty" is an entity. It is a description of a state of affairs. Satan has power because he was an angel, but the power in of itself is not evil. It is how he uses it that is evil.
Nolite Timere
Saint_of_Me
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6/24/2015 9:02:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 8:34:53 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 8:12:49 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 7:15:56 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is not a separate entity, rather it is a perversion of the ultimate good: God. Hence, Satan is evil insofar as he has chosen to rebel against God and thus lacks God's goodness. It is kind of like how darkness isn't an entity in of itself, but rather the lack of light.

So, if yo believe in Satan, you do not think that He has power over some people? With a quick look at the state of the world today, I believe it would be difficult for someone who believes in Him to deny he is wielding some power. Thus, if he were, then Evil would be a separate entity, that is, emanating from outside of the human mind.

Evil is a state of being in which something is deprived of its perfection. So it is false to say evil is an entity in the way that saying "beauty" is an entity. It is a description of a state of affairs. Satan has power because he was an angel, but the power in of itself is not evil. It is how he uses it that is evil.

I disagree.

Of course, I do not believe in Satan or God either. I am a man of science. I think all that talk is sheer ignorant superstition.

If EVIL is of a separate entity, then there is a science-base for it. As I said in my OP, it might be a sort of "power Field" that we cannot detect yet. A part of the electromagnetic spectrum of which we only see a tiny slice. And the particular chemistry or electrolytes of some peoples' minds may be comprised in such a way as to act as a 'receiver" for this Force.

Just an idea.

But the God and Satan stuff is childish nonsense.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
sadolite
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6/24/2015 9:06:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why Does Evil Walk Among Us? The proliferation of people thinking there is no right or wrong, good or evil.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
xXCryptoXx
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6/24/2015 9:11:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 9:02:43 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 8:34:53 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 8:12:49 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 7:15:56 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is not a separate entity, rather it is a perversion of the ultimate good: God. Hence, Satan is evil insofar as he has chosen to rebel against God and thus lacks God's goodness. It is kind of like how darkness isn't an entity in of itself, but rather the lack of light.

So, if yo believe in Satan, you do not think that He has power over some people? With a quick look at the state of the world today, I believe it would be difficult for someone who believes in Him to deny he is wielding some power. Thus, if he were, then Evil would be a separate entity, that is, emanating from outside of the human mind.

Evil is a state of being in which something is deprived of its perfection. So it is false to say evil is an entity in the way that saying "beauty" is an entity. It is a description of a state of affairs. Satan has power because he was an angel, but the power in of itself is not evil. It is how he uses it that is evil.

I disagree.

Of course, I do not believe in Satan or God either. I am a man of science. I think all that talk is sheer ignorant superstition.

If EVIL is of a separate entity, then there is a science-base for it. As I said in my OP, it might be a sort of "power Field" that we cannot detect yet. A part of the electromagnetic spectrum of which we only see a tiny slice. And the particular chemistry or electrolytes of some peoples' minds may be comprised in such a way as to act as a 'receiver" for this Force.

Just an idea.

But the God and Satan stuff is childish nonsense.

Speaking of nonsense.
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Rational_Thinker9119
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6/24/2015 10:16:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

I don't think the two are incompatible.


Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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6/24/2015 10:55:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

+1
Saint_of_Me
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6/25/2015 1:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 10:16:34 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

I don't think the two are incompatible.


Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Oh no...neither do I. The two can and probably do co-exist and are co-causes.

I KNOW the "bad wiring" dynamic occurs, and in fact is responsible for 90% of the acts that we in society deem as "evil." (Well, that and "nurture." AS in the age-old "nature" vs/ "nurture" debate. A look at the childhoods of all these guys..the famous sociopaths from history--as well as, hell, the gen pop of any prison, will readily attest that the vast majority of these people had horrendous childhoods.

There is a well-known dynamic in the world of Criminal Profilers as well as the psychologists who deal with the violently insane. It is called the "Psychopath Triad." Or the Criminal Triad.

Anybody know what it is?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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6/25/2015 1:19:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/24/2015 10:55:50 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

+1

You answer actually answers nothing. It is merely more of a Philosophical rant.

You are basically waxing philsophic on the nature of evil and morality and how you think it is all subjective and not objective and there is no absolute morality either and yaddy yaddy yah....

LOL.

But, again, off-topic. My OP posed the question of what we in today's world--for better or for worse--refer to as Evil. You know as well as I what that means, so you can leave your philosophy aside. Put it on a different thread. Lord knows that topic has been done to death around here.

Again: we all know what is meant here on Earth in the 21st Century as "Evil." And my question was whether or not you guys think it is a result of purely physiological and "nurture" dynamics, or rather does it exude from an outside force. That is--Is it its' own Entity?

Thanks.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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6/25/2015 1:51:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/25/2015 1:19:37 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 10:55:50 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

+1

You answer actually answers nothing. It is merely more of a Philosophical rant.

You are basically waxing philsophic on the nature of evil and morality and how you think it is all subjective and not objective and there is no absolute morality either and yaddy yaddy yah....

LOL.

But, again, off-topic. My OP posed the question of what we in today's world--for better or for worse--refer to as Evil. You know as well as I what that means, so you can leave your philosophy aside. Put it on a different thread. Lord knows that topic has been done to death around here.

Again: we all know what is meant here on Earth in the 21st Century as "Evil." And my question was whether or not you guys think it is a result of purely physiological and "nurture" dynamics, or rather does it exude from an outside force. That is--Is it its' own Entity?

Thanks.

You answered your own question in this response. Since evil does not objectively exist, there cannot be an entity of "Evil."
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/25/2015 1:55:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/25/2015 1:51:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/25/2015 1:19:37 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 10:55:50 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

+1

You answer actually answers nothing. It is merely more of a Philosophical rant.

You are basically waxing philsophic on the nature of evil and morality and how you think it is all subjective and not objective and there is no absolute morality either and yaddy yaddy yah....

LOL.

But, again, off-topic. My OP posed the question of what we in today's world--for better or for worse--refer to as Evil. You know as well as I what that means, so you can leave your philosophy aside. Put it on a different thread. Lord knows that topic has been done to death around here.

Again: we all know what is meant here on Earth in the 21st Century as "Evil." And my question was whether or not you guys think it is a result of purely physiological and "nurture" dynamics, or rather does it exude from an outside force. That is--Is it its' own Entity?

Thanks.

You answered your own question in this response. Since evil does not objectively exist, there cannot be an entity of "Evil."

You're hopeless.

Go parse words on somebody else's post, Plato.

LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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6/25/2015 2:00:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/25/2015 1:55:35 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/25/2015 1:51:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/25/2015 1:19:37 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/24/2015 10:55:50 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 6/24/2015 4:12:58 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 6/24/2015 3:42:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
I am realitively new to DDO so I would guess that this topic has been broached in the past, but, as I was recently doing some reading on Criminal Psychology I was reminded of a longtime question I have grappled with that is related to that discipline.

I am speaking about the age-old question of "Evil." Does it exist, do you think? Oh...I do not mean to ask if men commit evil deeds. We all know the answer to that! But rather, my question to you good people is: Does EVIL exist as a separate entity? That is, a sort of outside "force" or "malevolent spirit" that exists on its own--and is not merely a product of a flawed human mind. Is not simply a result of bad brain chemistry. Of too much or not enough of certain chemical neurotransmitters?

The majority of mental health professional--people I work with, for example--will attest to the latter. That there is really no such thing as EVIL as a separate entity, but rather people who have--as one of me colleagues so eloquently puts it--"A head full of bad wiring." LOL

But I am not so sure. Take a look at some pics of serial killers and psychopaths from the past. Your Jeff Dahmers; Joseph Duncans; Ed Geins; Ted Bundys; Adolph Hilters; Susan Smith. And, for my money the BEST case of somebody being possessed by Evil: Richard Ramirez. Look at them and you will almost certainly notice something just....."off" in their eyes. Something truly different and, well, EVIL is in there.

Religious folks say the Devil works by "hardening your heart." By shutting off that part of you which normally allows compassion and love and sympathy. Well, we know that Sociopaths are devoid of these emotions. These people work and look exactly as one would IF they were truly "possessed."

So....what say you?

Evil = The work of Satan, or is its own Outside Force? Or Evil = "just a head full of bad wiring, mate."

Thanks for your time and your interest.

Drew

Evil is entirely a societal creation based on individual preferences. Morality likely has its roots in instincts gained through human evolution. Whether something is "evil" or "good" or not is a factor of someone's likes and dislikes, and is entirely subjective.

You point out that you noticed something "off" in David Ramirez's eyes. Well, don't deep-sea anglerfish look menacing, with their nightmarish teeth, to you? If they do to you, that doesn't mean they're evil, necessarily. Female anglerfish like what they see enough to mate.

Evil and good are entirely a matter of opinion, and that's why I feel all ideas founded on the concept of moral right (like Rand's Objectivism, for instance) lack any objective basis.

People are innately self-serving; they are ultimate egoists. If someone kills someone thinking that it will benefit him/her, the killing is, to him/her, a good thing for them. What is good to one may be bad to another. That doesn't mean anything is good or bad.

Which isn't to say I like killing or raping people. I just base my dislike of murder and rape on my personal preferences created by my upbringing, rather than on a knowledge of what is objectively good or evil.

+1

You answer actually answers nothing. It is merely more of a Philosophical rant.

You are basically waxing philsophic on the nature of evil and morality and how you think it is all subjective and not objective and there is no absolute morality either and yaddy yaddy yah....

LOL.

But, again, off-topic. My OP posed the question of what we in today's world--for better or for worse--refer to as Evil. You know as well as I what that means, so you can leave your philosophy aside. Put it on a different thread. Lord knows that topic has been done to death around here.

Again: we all know what is meant here on Earth in the 21st Century as "Evil." And my question was whether or not you guys think it is a result of purely physiological and "nurture" dynamics, or rather does it exude from an outside force. That is--Is it its' own Entity?

Thanks.

You answered your own question in this response. Since evil does not objectively exist, there cannot be an entity of "Evil."

You're hopeless.

Well, if that's your response to hearing the truth, I can see why you fail to have many productive discussions. Do you deny the reality that evil does not exist objectively?

Go parse words on somebody else's post, Plato.

LOL
Juan_Pablo
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6/25/2015 2:10:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I perceive evil through a utilitarian lens.

Evil is intentional human behavior that permanently or indefinitely increases unhappiness or pain, or that lowers the quality of life.

Unintentionally or accidentally increasing unhappiness or pain is not evil--it's just negligence.
Juan_Pablo
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6/25/2015 2:22:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I guess another useful description of evil [intent] would be the malevolent desire to cause harm or to increase pain.

However, I prefer the behavioral psychological description of evil, because it has application in modern criminal law and human justice. Evil intent, as in an evil thought or evil compulsion, cannot be punished by the legal system; evil actions, however, can be.
Juan_Pablo
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6/25/2015 2:32:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/25/2015 2:10:23 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
I perceive evil through a utilitarian lens.

Evil is intentional human behavior that permanently or indefinitely increases unhappiness or pain, or that lowers the quality of life.

Unintentionally or accidentally increasing unhappiness or pain is not evil--it's just negligence.

Correction:

I perceive evil through a utilitarian lens.

Evil is human behavior that seeks to permanently or indefinitely increase unhappiness or pain, or that is intended to lower the quality of someone or some group's life.

Unintentionally or accidentally increasing unhappiness or pain is not evil, it's simply negligence.
Juan_Pablo
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6/25/2015 2:37:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Correction:

Unintentionally or accidentally increasing unhappiness or pain is not evil, but it can be negligence.
Najs
Posts: 113
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6/27/2015 11:00:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If Evil is an entity, then wouldn't it's opposite (Good) also be an entity that walks among us?