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On hell

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/16/2015 12:51:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

What is "infinite suffering"? What is "infinite happiness"? If you've never been without suffering, how would you know you were suffering? If you've never been unhappy, how would you know you were happy?
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/16/2015 1:37:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Torture can never be right. Never. Infinite punishment can never fit a finite crime. Never. If you would like to dispute either of those, please do.
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/16/2015 2:29:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

I thought you were on vacation.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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7/16/2015 2:31:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 2:29:29 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

I thought you were on vacation.

Yes, but my aunt has a computer:P
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/16/2015 4:00:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 2:31:32 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 7/16/2015 2:29:29 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

I thought you were on vacation.

Yes, but my aunt has a computer:P

So....most people--especially christians and mooslims, have a very erroneous perception of Hell. It has been fed to them by the bible and the koran. (See my thread on "Satan is your TRUE Friend" for further elaboration on what I am about so say. That is: on what I am about to teach you.

The "real" Hell is the one those christians and mooslins here on Earth live every day. IN that they worship false gods. And the dogmas of those gods exhort them to worhip, to pray, to follow rules and lead lives that do nothing except restrict their true potential; humanity; and Freedom.

Yahweh wants you on your knees; to worship him every moment. He is a jealous and a bully of a god. Look at his numerous atrocities in the Old Testament.

SATAN, on the other hand, has always stood up for us. He is our true friend. And it should be readily apparent that he conrols the world. It even admits this in the bible.

Thus: the best way to escape the Hell that is cow-towing to allah or Yah Yah on Earth is to begin questioning their alleged authority. As SATAN did. Hence, his name, "Hasatan" which means "The Accuser."

Come over to the winning side! Experience Freedom. Enjoy the one life you have. Free yourself from the hellish bonds of Yah Yah and Allah. (who is equally murderous and petty!)

Let me know if you have any questions on this.

thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Surrealism
Posts: 265
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7/16/2015 9:08:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

That assumes that self-inflicted pain is necessarily considered "evil".
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/16/2015 10:52:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Torture can never be right. Never. Infinite punishment can never fit a finite crime. Never. If you would like to dispute either of those, please do.

Torture may not be right but that does not negate its reality. Life, whether one calls it "hell" or not, is full of suffering. However, this "suffering" is defined; it is limited. We experience both the good and the bad, both happiness and suffering, both Heaven and Hell. It's not a matter of hell's existence but rather the extent it exists in our lives.
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/16/2015 11:01:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In a normal life, one can expect to never feel the pain felt during torture. I assure you it could be worse. Ever seen Saw? Please show that in a church. Afterwords you can say, "God does that to everyone but us. God is good, God is great. Unless we are wrong..."
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/16/2015 11:05:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Pain is not something that stops after you feel a lot of it. Pain hurts, and torture is intentional pain
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/16/2015 11:34:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In a normal life, one can expect to never feel the pain felt during torture. I assure you it could be worse. Ever seen Saw? Please show that in a church. Afterwords you can say, "God does that to everyone but us. God is good, God is great. Unless we are wrong..."

Pain and torture is not always seen. Often times, emotional pain is greater than any physical pain you could ever imagine.

However, it is not for you to determine the amount of suffering one must endure to constitute that which he, or she, may call "hell". Hell is a very personal thing; the individual must experience it, alone. That which may appear as hell to one person may be seen as Heaven to someone else.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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7/16/2015 11:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

I guess you'd have to define what is hell, how do you go there, and what happens to you there.

According to the Christian doctrine the nature of God is love, and it is a fiery personal love (that is why the Holy Spirit descending was shown as tongues of fire). God has made us to partake in his perfect love.

Sin is a breaking of that loving relationship. Now if you were a jerk with me, you'd be like 'meh' or maybe later in the day you'd have a minor regret - there is little to no relationship between us. If you did the same to a good friend, you'd be much sadder, and to the person closest to you - you'd be devastated. And is it easy to be in that person's presence? Is the guilt you feel not worse than physical pain? Do you not want to flee from that situation even if you'll feel a dulled version of that anguish.

This is exactly what happens with Hell. You can have no greater intimate and loving relationship than that with God. If you die in a state where you have broken your relationship with God you will not be able to be present in His perfect glory. With no means of repairing that relationship you will flee to hell. The fires of hell are the burning flames of God's love that you rejected which will torment you for eternity.

That is my best understanding of it.
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/16/2015 11:39:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Based on depictions by the Church, I do not think they mean a metaphorical hell. Physical pain and mental pain are different domains. Although they seem comparable they are very different and behave likewise.
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/17/2015 12:36:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 12:11:15 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Now, I don't believe in hell, but it seems to me that the arguments against it fail to recognize an important point. Most of the criticisms amount to "nothing humans could do warrant infinite punishment". What about passing up infinite happiness for infinite suffering I.e. getting sent to hell? Is inflicting infinite pain needlessly not infinitely evil? What if the world isn't meant to be important at all, but is intended as a way to determine who wishes to partake of God.

How about the Buddhist hell? You suffer for millions or even billions of years, according to the severity of your crimes, but you'll eventually get out.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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7/18/2015 2:06:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Based on depictions by the Church, I do not think they mean a metaphorical hell. Physical pain and mental pain are different domains. Although they seem comparable they are very different and behave likewise.

The Church, just as any other religion, uses symbols. All religions throughout the ages have used symbols. Symbols are open to interpretation; each symbol contains a wealth of information speaking to many different perspectives. It would be an impossible task for anyone to exhaustively define each symbol for he, or she, would need to know the psychic phenomena that went into its literal expression.

A symbol that is taken literally doesn't speak to a multitude of people and is quickly lost as a relic to history. It is the fact it's merely a symbol that allows it to be translated into many different tongues.
j50wells
Posts: 345
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7/18/2015 6:09:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with most everyone on this post. Hell does not exist, so stop torturing yourselves folks. Live life and have fun. Try to do the best for yourself firstly, then your spouse, then your kids, after that your neighbors. If you do this then you did well.

Try not to crush some poor bastards skull in just cause you had a bad day. If you catch your wife in bed with another man, try and flee before you give your jealous nature the chance to kick in, and then do the unthinkable of kicking his head into the wall. Trust me on this one folks. There are a lot of nice men in prison right now who lost their heads and killed their wife's lover.

Hell was actually made up by the church, and by other religions. Religions found that their attendance swelled when they started including hell in their message. It's funny that the three main religions who have the most attendance on the planet all have an afterlife punishment. The religions that don't believe in punishments in the afterlife are usually very small. Does that tell you anything? Namely that religion isn't ascribed to unless the torture of hell or a bad after-life is part of it?